See this rank 10 title I have? Yeah, I played Vanilla.
I don’t like 400ms spell batching. I don’t like all the flaws in the game but that’s what people wanted, hence the chants of “No-changes” that went largely uncontested, except by people like myself. You can go read posts from the first days of Classic’s announcement and see me fighting back this ridiculous “No-change” philosophy.
Facts are facts though, I’m not going to pretend something isn’t working right because I don’t like it.
welp if it makes you feel better, I don’t even play Classic anymore - not for this bug report but for the absolute craptastic communication job that the devs and QA have done overall with all of the Paladin bugs such as Consecration taking up a debuff slot, to shadow oil’s internal cooldown to lifestealing and life drain procs no longer being able to crit at all anymore
the game is monkey coding upon monkey coding - which is fine if there was actual communication back from the devs and QA - but those bug reports have been up for over 4 months now and not a peep from Blizz
likewise with the diamond flask report compared to runeblade being gutted and nerfed within a few weeks of being report.
QQ more. This was 100% a thing in Vanilla. I know because I mained a shaman. The community wanted NO CHANGES, warts, bugs and all. This is what we have. If you start making “changes” to the game, you have a huge slippery slope. NO CHANGES. WALL OF NO. BACK TO RETAIL IF YOU WANT BALANCE CHANGES.
This is the strange thing to me. Weird tiny “bugs” like this that existed in vanilla are fixed, yet game changing bugs are left alone. I don’t understand the logic behind these changes and they should either plan to fix them all or leave them as they were. Picking and choosing is just furthering the problem and confusion.
Nope. Shatter works because the mage times two spells to land at the same time. All versions of WoW used batching and the shatter timing was pretty tight. This works because the buff on the shaman isn’t being removed fast enough due to the absolutely disgusting 400ms batching windows that some dev, who likely never played Vanilla, thought was reasonable. It’s a guaranteed double crit that is given to even dumpster tier Ele Shaman, granting them absolutely unhealable 100-0 burst if they have a lick of gear.
Eh, the grounding totem thing is much more reasonable to me. It’s the same logic as shatter combos- the spell has to land to break the totem/nova, so any fast traveling/instant spell will hit the totem if there’s another spell in flight.
“In the past, back when servers had less computing power than phones nowadays have, these windows could be very large, with some games having up to 200ms windows of batching, including WoW. With better technology and servers, this system was improved over the years and, while it still exists, and effects from it can still be seen, the windows are much smaller, being 20ms wide for abilities in retail WoW. This means that abilities cast within 20ms of each other are considered simultaneous in the eyes of the retail WoW servers, while this window was about 200ms during Vanilla.”
I don’t want to get too deep into the under-the-hood workings of WoW servers, but here’s a super short version. Any action that one unit takes on another different unit used to be processed in batches every 400ms. Some very attentive people may have noticed that healing yourself would give you the health instantly (minus client/server latency), whereas healing another unit would incur a delay of between 0ms and 400ms (again, on top of client/server latency). Same with damaging, applying auras, interrupting, knocking back, etc.
You both are absolutely, unequivocally incorrect. It is time to close this thread to focus on real bugs, not QQ balance changes requests. Shatter combos, elemental mastery combos, clear sting combos etc. were not only in vanilla, they were an integral part to it. It is what makes vanilla, vanilla - the weird, quirky things like this. The people complaining just want stealth balance changes disguised as “bug” fixes.
I’m sorry to disappoint you, but combos like this existed in vanilla. They have always existed in vanilla and did not get changed until later - sometimes much later. This is true to vanilla. If you don’t like it, I suggest a different game: retail WoW, where they have balance changes regularly.
As far as the grounding totem eating more than one spell, that was 100% there in vanilla, and is by design. It blocks incoming spells until it is destroyed, and it is not destroyed until the spell projectile hits it. Sort of like fire nova totem; it will still erupt and do damage until destroyed…so, an incoming frost bolt that takes a second to reach it won’t destroy it if it doesn’t reach it in time to hit it. Grounding totem is working 100% as it did in vanilla, as is elemental mastery, clear casting, frost shatter combos, etc.
Qualifications: I played a shaman almost exclusively from 2004-2010.
Seems you are right. I missed the “used to be”. Personally, my trust in Blizzard’s statements on the current/previous state of their game is little to none, especially after the Hearthstone fiasco that resulted in mass forum censoring and their lockdown of the Blizzard subreddit, as well as how they have handled (or mostly ignored) the very apparent issues with their Classic Client/API. This thread details my feelings on the subject… Williams is spot on, imo. You obviously feel differently, but there’s little Blizzard can do to regain my trust. If they botch the TBC launch, I’m not going to bother paying in any more than I have to their poorly executed cash grab that played off the nostalgia and good will of their community, despite how much I miss that game and the time I spent playing it.
Look, I hate spell batching as much as the next guy. The difference between me and everyone else is I think it does us NO GOOD to believe that it’s not functioning correctly.
I think the better course of action is to admit the community was wrong to advocate for a system that was changed years ago for good reason. I think it’s better to ask nicely and give detailed reasoning as to why Blizzard should reverse their implementation of this archaic batch system.
I just believe we have a much better chance of getting rid of it by asking nicely instead of constantly accusing Blizzard of getting it wrong. Even if by some small chance they don’t have it right, they think they do and that obviously hasn’t changed in 7 months.
Look at the delay in vendor interactions back in Joana’s leveling guide videos from Vanilla:
Spell batching sucked, and still sucks. Every time someone comes up with a reason as to why they think it isn’t working like it did in Vanilla, I find a video showing it is.
You can literally play the real 1.12 Client/Server right now if you want to. The source code was decompiled in the early 2010’s. Good private servers play smooth as butter compared to Classic and still have the batching interactions (as they were, not as they are in Classic) that one should expect out of Vanilla.
As for the functioning of the current system of batching, here’s my perspective: I don’t have my HWL lock anymore, but this is my (Ezgg) TBC reroll after I… “lost”… that account. I’ve played a massive amount of PvP from Vanilla->WoTLK and not much since, so my view of the game has not been “tainted” by retail. It’s actually insulting to have Blizzard claim this is how the game played back then. I knew almost every in and out of class PvP interactions, animations, and timings. The poorly batched interactions I see nearly every BG were never a part of the countless hours I spent grinding BGs.
I’m sure I’m naive of some odd batching interactions that were less common, but I’m seeing myself/guildies eat counterspells on already cast spells like it’s going out of style. Hell, I’ll often fake cast a flash heal, throw a renew, THEN eat a holy counterspell. People are getting locked out of non-cast spell schools like it’s going out of business. I’ve seen people that were kidney shotted swing through the entire stun. It’s absurd to call this anything near what the game was, tbh.
Just as an addendum, have you considered that Blizzard hasn’t fixed the issues (if there are issues) out of risk management concerns/financial analysis, rather than confidence in their IP? If the cost to fix all the issues is more than the revenue generated by the number of people who unsub because of said issues, why would Blizzard ever fix them? That’s not to mention that admitting the faults in the current game would likely result in a drop in stock price and many unsubs, whereas stonewalling and gaslighting the community is a much less risky option if Blizzard has confidence that the nostalgia factor will win out. This isn’t the Blizzard that existed in Vanilla. Do you remember the GM support in Vanilla? It was TOP NOTCH. I mean, truly next level customer service. Now? It’s a joke. You’re lucky to even reach a customer service rep. I again point to the Hearthstone fiasco… all Blizzard sees these days is dollar signs.