M+ is NOT content! The problem with modern WoW

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

I made this post awhile ago and it was heavily upvoted and wanted to address the elephant in the room in terms of “what is and is not content” and the direction of the game.

The problem with Modern WoW is it’s a hamster wheel, instead of a wonderful journey.

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

I never want to do another M+ again and rarely Raid. I find Dungeons and Raids to be side content that should compliment the game. Doing Dungeons every week is terrible, I want to do them once or twice with friends and be done. Not funneled in there and forced to do it.

WoW can’t keep old players either. Most people play for 1-2 months then unsub as there isn’t much worth doing in a game riddled with convoluted systems and meaningless grinds to attain what you should of already had.

I can’t stress this enough, doing something over and over IS NOT CONTENT! M+ or daily’s aren’t content! Farming for resources is not content! When you break down actual content in 9.1 there is about 12 hours worth if that.

Now if you enjoy M+ fine but there is a lot of players that don’t. Arguably and statistically the majority of players don’t like M+. However that is where the gear is and people get forced into doing it for gear progression and it not only feels bad but promotes toxicity in the community and for the people that do enjoy M+

Next point is, there isn’t any completionism anymore which is HOW YOU FEEL REWARDED in an MMORPG. Where you complete a task and you are DONE with it. That is what I enjoyed about dungeons or content in the past. I did a heroic and then I was done with it for the expansion, unless a friend or guildy needed help. I could move onto the next one or different content. This made it feel like I was progressing through the game and I felt rewarded for COMPLETING a task.

If I am never done with a task, and have to do forced chores like M+ or Arena every week for a terrible system like the Great Vault to get RNG gear. You can never complete something and progress in this game which feels bad and is emotionally draining. You are on the hamster wheel or misery and pain!

I haven’t made an Alt since WoD because I can’t. I am never finished on my main and all this forced repeat activities devoid of any meaningful value except RNG gear leaves most feeling empty and just uninstalling the game. This is why WoW players have a 1-2 month typical life span.

The solution is simple. Things like M+ should ONLY reward cosmetics and titles. If you love M+ and want to compete in a season go for it. However don’t drag the player base that doesn’t want to be in there with you due to required gear. It’s bad design and HAS TO STOP!

I can’t for the life of me figure out why Blizzard doesn’t want us to complete content in the game and rather have us be completely unhappy doing chores and leaving when they are too much. I also don’t understand why they are sooo scared of us gearing up. Pull the rip cords!

As for PvP, sorry but the best PvP gear should be able to be acquired from BGs and just getting conquest and buying it at a vendor. None of this gatekeeping behind ranks, it’s as bad as M+. Most of the PvP player base doesn’t want to do Arenas or RBGs either. So forcing them in there just leads to uninstalling when they don’t have a good time. All of these points are just common sense.

Long story short- TLDR let people enjoy actual content! Get rid of the great vault. Let players complete a task then move onto the next one which is how you attain a rewarding feeling in an MMORPG. Then you can make Alts. Then you can focus on the activities in game you enjoy and thus you get WoW players to actually stick around for longer then 1-2 months.

Blizzard you got my Email I can help you fix this game step by step, it won’t be easy but we can start.

[Erthan-hyjal (Erthan)]

Then this game has never had content because 9.1 added the same amount of stuff any patch has ever added. New zone, new raid, new story.

[Sentenza-alexstrasza]

It is content though.

[Wariya-stormrage (Wariya)]

M+ is scaled up dungeons with rotating debuffs everyone knows this

Its actually brilliant game design. You keep the dungeons relevant without any additional work just scale everything up .

[Melantin-bonechewer]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

I can’t stress this enough, doing something over and over IS NOT CONTENT! M+ or daily’s aren’t content! Farming for resources is not content! When you break down actual content in 9.1 there is about 12 hours worth if that.

Now if you enjoy M+ fine but there is a lot of players that don’t. Arguably and statistically the majority of players don’t like M+. However that is where the gear is and people get forced into doing it for gear progression and it not only feels bad but promotes toxicity in the community and for the people that do enjoy M+

I partially agree but only so much as the repeated content isn’t content line. Problem is that we all ran dungeons over and over again before Mythic+ as well, only difference now being it has a better difficulty and reward structure attached.

I’ll agree with you on the toxicity part, having situations that lead to a complete failure during personal playtime results in people getting short with others, which can lead to a toxic environment.

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Sentenza-alexstrasza

It is content though.

A mythic is content and when you finish it you completed that content and now it’s done. Doing it over and over is not content just because you slap on a M+ to it. Just like how Queing into your 500th Arena isn’t content.

Content is something you can complete.

There should be no confusion about that if you do it over and over again it’s an activity or you are farming.

@Wariya-stormrage

M+ is scaled up dungeons with rotating debuffs everyone knows this

Yea it is and a lot of people hate it because it isn’t content. Or hate it because they are forced into it when you shouldn’t have to do it.

@Wariya-stormrage

Its actually brilliant game design. You keep the dungeons relevant without any additional work just scale everything up .

I hardly think doing something over and over so you are never done is brilliant game design. So many will disagree with you.

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

I can’t stress this enough, doing something over and over IS NOT CONTENT! M+ or daily’s aren’t content! Farming for resources is not content! When you break down actual content in 9.1 there is about 12 hours worth if that.

Can stop reading here. You’re effectively saying raiding, m+, pvp and world dailies are not content because they are repeatable. So you only consider story and leveling content? That’s ridiculous. I disagree with the entire premise of your post. What you’re describing is a single player game. Go play that if that’s what you want, there are heaps of them already.

[Xándria-area-52 (Xándria)]

Let’s rephrase your title. Mythic + is NOT “new” content. Mythic + is considered content as it is something you can do whenever you really feel like it. It is not new because it’s has been a thing for several expansions already.

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Cicera-zuljin

You’re effectively saying raiding

Doing a raid on heroic difficulty once is content. You are seeing it for the first time and trying to complete/beat it. After you beat it, now it isn’t content anymore. If you so choose you can move onto Mythic raiding but once you complete it then it’s done. Raiding every week for a vault or doing M+ every week or Arena every week is NOT content. They are an activity. These are the facts.

The game improves when we actually get to do content again and complete task which gives you that rewarding feeling.

The best dungeon gear should be a Mythic 0 and M+ should only be for cosmetics and people that care about that sort of thing. Give them titles.

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

Doing a raid on heroic difficulty once is content. You are seeing it for the first time and trying to complete/beat it. After you beat it, now it isn’t content anymore. If you so choose you can move onto Mythic raiding but once you complete it then it’s done. Raiding every week for a vault or doing M+ every week or Arena every week is NOT content. They are an activity. These are the facts.

This isn’t true. I’ve beaten resident evil 3 5 times because it unlocks a new difficulty mode- enjoyed every play through. You’re biased, and you’re confusing your bias with “facts”. It’s a very narrow very pointed way to look at it, and it’s your own. Don’t project it onto everyone else though. What you’re looking for are single player games. Online games tend to be repeatable.

[Katrell-hydraxis]

this game is definitely lacking on entertaining things to do outside of instance play.

[Arlec-stormrage (Arlec)]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

Things like M+ should ONLY reward cosmetics and titles.

If you don’t like M+ then don’t do it. There, I solved your problem for you.

[Ardus-thrall]

M+ is content though.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t invalidate it.

The correct statement is m+ is not substantial content worth months of game play. This is true

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

I can’t stress this enough, doing something over and over IS NOT CONTENT!

So then in your definition, Raids are not content. PvP is not content either.

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Cicera-zuljin

You’re biased, and you’re confusing your bias with “facts”.

Definitely am not. Just trying to clear up what is and is NOT content. M+, Raiding and Arena are the smallest part of this game but now it’s become the ONLY part of WoW which is why it has suffered such a drastic decline. There just isn’t any content anymore. There are repeat task that feel bad doing. So people leave.

[Ardus-thrall]

Except that is still content….

/face palm

[Abombination-kurinnaxx]

@Katrell-hydraxis

this game is definitely lacking on entertaining things to do outside of instance play.

100% this!!! Instanced play should be about 10% of the game at most. It’s an MMO

[Sunzsu-alexstrasza]

Is it stuff you can do in the game?

Then it’s content.

Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it’s not content.

[Moonshadow-ravenholdt]

The biggest problem with WoW is they focus so heavily on pushing people into repeatable instances. Instances should never be the focus of a mmo. The focus should be the world and the people. By focusing on instances they lose the world.

[Neralya-magtheridon (Neralya)]

@Abombination-kurinnaxx

Arguably and statistically the majority of players don’t like M+.

Arguably, sure, but ‘statistically’? Where’d you get those numbers from? Genuinely curious.

What’s also strange is that you give the idea of making M+ only offer cosmetics (which ironically last longer than any gear we obtain which get invalidated in new patches and expansions, while cosmetics are forever)… but don’t actually say how they should generate more content beyond the 12 hours of new story stuff you determined.

So, by content, what do you mean? Quests and storylines? Sure, I’d be all down for that. Especially since those don’t require optimal gear in any form and can be done in greens.

I define content as “things to do” in a game. This isn’t a college class where you need to have a set amount of hours of content, where each thing is a new nugget of information or a new skill you learn. This is a passtime. Does the game have things to pass the time? YEP. Granted, you don’t like what’s available. I’m all for having more stuff to do. Don’t think that should invalidate the stuff people do like.

If M+ ONLY rewarded cosmetics, how would we progress further? Right, we would need ANOTHER method of gear acquisition, which people would then also likely complain about if it is even remotely hard.