TLDR:
If you want bronze for tmogs and mounts make alts. There are guides on youtube which explain how to get your time to 70 down to under 4 hours. At that rate you’re around 300-350 bronze/min. That’s better than a very good set of heroic raid clears. It’s also about as efficient as alt-ing to do the daily quests for the 2 greater caches with each character you have at 70.
If you want bronze for gear (in a reasonable amount of time) your stuck doing the raids everyday. After about 400 or 440 ilvl (this is likely to increase as people get geared) you can get into heroic raids pretty consistently/fast. A great set of heroic clears is better bronze/min than alt-ing, but not by a whole lot, and requires a baller group with several guys in maxed gear. You can supplement this income by grinding on mobs in one of the common farms (Kun Li or Sra’vess) for <200 bronze/min.
Apparently no one likes the science of studying procs so my original thread got removed but whatever. It’s better to clean it up anyways:
This post contains a record of bronze per minute farm rates available in mop remix, scaling/gear information, and information about threads. If you have questions about what’s here lmk.
All data is collected by me. There’s between 40 minutes and 3 hours of data over each farm strategy.
Some information comes via hearsay (hopefully) from the craftsim community discord.
The central issue is gearing. It scales exponentially. So a table of DPS by upgrade level looks like,
[100.0,
120.0,
144.0,
172.79999999999998,
207.35999999999999,
248.83199999999994,
298.5983999999999,
358.3180799999999,
429.98169599999983,
515.9780351999998,
619.1736422399997,
743.0083706879997,
891.6100448255996,
1069.9320537907195]
Observations from gearing my guy
Around 450 I started to randomly one shot non-elite world mobs.
I’m in the 470s on all slots and I still can’t solo world bosses.
I was in the 500s before I felt powerful. I also had about 100k threads so keep that in mind.
At max rank (so 556) I do about 2.5mill single target dps (no cheese with meta gems).
SEE Direct link:
Unfortunately you pay linearly for every level of gear upgrades. That is, you pay 78% of the total cost for about a 6 fold increase to power. Then, you pay 22% of the total cost for about 1/3 of your total dps.
Total upgrade cost from 346 gear: 497775 (no gems bought.) For that you get about 25k primary stat (less if you use AP for damage).
This is unfortunate because the bronze/minute income rates doesn’t actually increase much when you start to max out your gear. The time you spent farming for the gear upgrades (pre-frog nerf farming aside) doesn’t really put you in a position where you can farm fast enough that you’re ahead. AND most of the cost is frontloaded with little benefit. You likely will pay out 60% of the total cost at least before you can do harder content. You basically just wasted a lot of time.
Bronze/minute farm rates:
EDIT: Leveling alts and doing dailies with them is probably the best way to farm bronze. (This is after all the reward changes. Before them it was the worst way.) Which is great IMO as that’s what the whole event was supposed to be.
-
Old goat farm, 75 bronze/min solo packs 150 bronze/min double packs (NOT A CURRENT RATE)
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Random Heroic (no frog carry) (44307-43509)/30 = 26 bronze/min WTF
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Sra’vess bug farm (grouped) (35848-33067)/26 = 106 bronze/min
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Full raid clears with guild (no froggers) (59892-44307)/180 = 89 bronze/min (no quest rewards)(See section below.) -
(Theoretical) Full raid clears (with hard carry) heroic 114 or 129 bronze/min(See section below.) -
(Theoretical) Full raid clears (with hard carry) mythic 169 or 215 bronze/min (BEST KNOWN)(See section below.) -
Orb collection (no route optimization)(pre hotfix)(level 70) 63 bronze/min.
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Orb collection (route optimization)(shard hopping)(post hotfix)(level 70) 101 bronze/min.
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(post May 23 changes) First of the day scenario/dungeon 10 min (observed average) complete time 140-156 bronze/min (Instance rewards are trash. Like 400-500 bronze with dropped gear melted.)
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Crane farm (grouped, not 2x4, lots of competition, post nerf I think) (100320-97609)/34 + 7.8*86 = 99.464 bronze/min
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Questing estimate: the expected value of a timerunner cache is 80 bronze. (Melting any gear but keeping gems. Smallish sample size of 10 chests.) so multiply the number of quests completed by 80 then divide by time to complete. To be competitive with other farming methods you need to complete about 1.25 quests per minute.
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Speed Farming Bugs 190-210 bronze/min observed. This is with around +250% movement speed.
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Leveling an alt (sub 10 hour completion time, with the one time quest rewards) 124 bronze/min. I did not optimize anything beyond ignoring all Lorewalker Cho quests (too much RP). I think sub 8 hours is a reasonable time to 70. Note, if you wait until 60+ you get the big caches as rewards from the daily quests that can up your rate a bit depending on how you level.
Conclusion 1 Repeatable farms give about 100 bronze/min.
Conclusion 2 It will take you about 83 hours of farming to max out your gear at that rate. (In practice this figure will vary.)
RAID_COMPLETION_TIMES (From the week of May 26th.)
Raid, Difficulty, Min_Completion_Time, Avg_Completion_Time, apx.Bronze
Vault, n, 16, 21, 16, 4300
Terrace, n, 10, 15.7, 2500*
HoF, n, 9, 28, 3500*
ToT, n, 42, 46, 10000
SoO, n, 50, 67, 11000
Vault, h, 30, 30, 5500
Terrace, h, 17.5, 3757.5
HoF, h, 50, 50, 7100
ToT, h, 60,12706
SoO, h, 65.5, 16675
“*” Indicates that only cache drops were counted.
Rates vary by raiding between 250-388 bronze/minute
Almost all of this data is from pugging. The two heroic runs are with my guild. I included everything, sitting in LFG, killing, and scrapping gear but not the daily reward. I also haven’t made much effort to screen groups and anicdotally there isn’t much difference between the “frog farmers only” and the “lol-I’m-new” levels in terms of completion times. (It takes a lot longer for the former to form up.)
NOTE If you get into really good groups you can push the drop rate up a bit on the harder raids. ToT for example can be around 360 bronze/min. But, keep in mind that you’ll need several characters in the group with maxed out gear to do this.
Conclusion 1 Assuming you can complete the raid, you can’t really save a lot of time in raid by gearing. Most of your time is spent walking around, waiting for RP, ect. (For example, average vault is 205 bronze/min while minimum vault is 269 bronze/min.)
LFG Instance Times
Type, Avg_Completion, Avg_Bronze
dung, 12, 728
scenario, 7.75, 252
Conclusion 1 Rates here are pretty bad, 61 and 33 respectively, but with the cache for your first completion it’s 165 and 193 so it’s probably worth it to do at least one a day.
Thread information
Each thread can be 1 of 8 types. So there’s a 1/8 chance that you get a primary stat thread for example.
How many threads do you need to collect to equal one gear upgrade?
Upgrading from 346 to 360 ilvl nets me 14 intellect. The expected value of 1 thread with respect to intellect is 1/8. So it takes, on average, a many threads with, a1/8 = 14, or 112 threads. So in some sense 112 threads is worth 4500 bronze.
Upgrading from 542 to 556 nets me 83 int. So it takes 664 threads to equal the last upgrade. So in some sense, 664 threads is worth 4500 bronze.
These two values are extrema. Every other thread to bronze conversion rate lies between them. Therefore, it will take at least 112 times 14 threads (1568), but not more than, 664 times 14 threads (9296) to equal one piece of fully upgraded (big mainstat) gear.
The maximum amount of mainstat threads you can collect is 200k. (It varies for secondary stats and stamina. I didn’t write down the numbers and they got deleted with the old thread. If you know them lmk.)
Since a fully upgraded suit of gear gives about 25k in main stat you’d need to collect about, a1/8 = 25000 → a = 200,000 threads to equal a suit of fully maxed out gear.
Conclusion 4Frog farmers got off with no punishment when their cloaks were “nerfed”. They already have maxed out gear, hence the rough equivalent of a 100% maxed out cloak and a reduction of 2-5k mainstat out of 30k mainstat isn’t much of a reduction.
Conclusion 5 Threads are kinda worthless. They’ll follow the same pattern as gearing does. So they do very little until you start to collect a lot of them. Around +20k, or so mainstat. That works out to 160,000 threads farmed. (That’s 888 of the legendary 180 thread spools.)
ORIG POST SUMMARY (TLDR)
It's like they didn't even check anything. Just slapped some numbers on [everything] and sent it out the door. This is crazy.