what’s the “exploit” part, people are trying to get powerful in game and hyperspawns exist, sorry its something other than what the raid finder window offers but there are players better than you that play at a different level
the real gain is being able to gain extreme power fantasy and solo almost anything, i can carry a full normal run’s dps by myself now and it feels awesome
This is exactly how any sane person should view it, But I guess it’s easier to view anyone who killed frogs as moustache-twirling villains who steal babies instead of simply another player who was enjoying the game and did something to progress their character.
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Wouldn’t upgrading your gear make bronze acquisition that much faster? I can just go solo dungeons now to get threads/bronze. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if by the end we were all soloing raids or something.
So, allowing nearly infinite number of hand-ins via charms, which is limited only by how many 10s of them you have, is acceptable? With 100s, 1000s or even 10000s of players doing this, because it would simply be easier to do rather than the actual content of the game to get OP, and pretty much trivialize the bronze system for not only gear but all the rewards… as acceptable?
Why then do any other content, how much easier the rewards would be to get, all those RNG based WB mounts, the heirlooms, which were only supposed to be for those who got them in OG Mists? That to me is not fundamentally within the confines of fair, it would maybe have been fair if there were no cosmetics at all with the exception of the exclusives, but when you involve other cosmetics that are already obtainable live, nope, I just don’t see it, as being fair, fair to those again who put in far more time and effort, or thought that the item would no longer be obtainable. Only to have it be brought back.
Now not only that, but you also have to look at it at a coding point of view, not only did the froggies drop charms, but they also dropped threads too, unless there truly is a hard limit on the stats of the cloak. Having a cloak with near ‘Infinite Potential’ could be game breaking, with again those 100s, 1000s or 10000s of players with insane cloaks, because gear has its ilvl limit, the cloak can eventually exceed that gear in terms of power.
I mean look at the stat squishes we had over the years it not only makes things simpler but helps make the game run a bit smoother on most machines. You have that with those frogs I find it more likely not to do so.
Also look at it this way, do you think it’s fair then if that amount of people are doing frogs? That only a few people can tag them and get loot credit? I tried doing the Dragonhawk quest on a character, it has a hyperspawn, but people were farming them, they are needed for a quest, they shouldn’t be farmed because this game mode has player power attached to nearly all mobs. It took a good few minutes to kill 5, when it shouldn’t have because tag limit.
I’ll spell it out for you about the ‘exploit’ part, yeah, the hyperspawn exists, but did threads in OG Mists, did the nearly unlimited hand-ins of charms exist for the entirety of OG Mists? People simply like to ignore that fact, that charms function a bit differently back then, that frogs didn’t directly give player power.
So why are people not killing frogs now? You can go kill frogs to your heart’s content, I mean what is preventing you on doing so, the hyperspawn is still there…
There’s information I’ve collected here,
You don’t collect bronze 10 times faster with better gear because that’s impossible. The minimum completion time for vault, for example, is about 16 minutes. You have to form up, fly there, walk around, wait for Loremaster Cho to gibber jabber on, and what not. Killing things was always (a warded tank doing 50 million dps is a thing that happened week one) one of the smallest components with respect to time. Just tracking the increase in bronze dropped off of bosses as difficulty increases is a slight increase to output. (It’s listed therein.) (EDIT: We’re already all at the minimum completion time for Vault essentially because of warded tanks.)
Best case scenario you can get a bit more than double output. And that hinges on you getting your speed up (a lot) which not everyone can do. (EDIT: And possibly also doing mythic raids exclusively.)
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They should have absolutely made the changes to the turn-in to preserve the integrity of the mode, but they didn’t. They should have done it before the launch. I even understand if it was an oversight that they regret.
What I object to is the notion that players should be nerfed arbitrarily to a level that Blizzard pulled from their own calculations, with seemingly no regard for players actual investment.
Blizzard has accepted no responsibility beyond claiming it was a bug. Even if that is the truth of the matter, and even disregarding the assertions that this is a well known farming spot that was reported on the PTR, their response was simultaneously grotesque and clumsy. Even spiteful if you feel you didn’t do anything worthy of discipline or a rollback yet were affected by it.
There is a lot of background interference being created by players who are resentful about something they ‘feel’ is wrong. Players disguising their outrage under the pretense that being carried in a raid is an outrage and a personal affront. I can agree that being carried is boring and not being to contribute the commensurate amount of damage or healing sucks, but everything about this mode screamed that this would happen. They were going to be mad, it just happened in a way that made it seem like the players were at fault.
Instead of Blizzard acting as mediator and peacemaker they went after their own customers at the behest of a fervent few misguided haters.
This has been handled poorly, from whichever angle you look at it.
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Now. Realize thats only to do it on one toon. If you wanted to make an alt with any gear at all you gotta regrind 570,000 bronze to get to 550 ilvl (yes i did the math 38,000 X15)
Hmmm…It is almost like players do things that will advance their characters and will do the best option for them no matter what situation it is in??
You make a million choices of varying sizes to optimize your gameplay every time you log into the game.
Players will obviously pick the option that gives them more rewards 100% of the time, you’d be lying to yourself to say they wouldn’t, so if Blizzard gives you the option (they did by not removing coins in the first place), people will naturally gravitate towards the more appealing options, that is simple human nature.
I don’t even think it was an oversight personally, but it was obviously a regret.
If you think about it, all the “Aid the X” repeatable quests give an Asynchronized Prismatic Gem as well as a box, no other quest in remix does this.
So they considered Lesser Charms apart of remix or else why would they make quests requiring them offer a unique remix specific reward?
Not to mention that those repeatable turn ins didn’t even exist in original MoP. Lesser charms were absolutely intended to be part of the event.
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I did not know that, that is even more proof that it was intended from the start.
Quite silly that Blizzard seemed to not realize how easy it was to get them (or ignored feedback) , I suggest next time they use Wowhead for help since it shows all such information in a nice easy place. 
I don’t think so, I believe it was negligence on Blizzard’s part for ignoring what people were saying during the PTR. The hyperspawn was there in OG Mists, the use of the charms was different, they were for bonus rolls, not the unlimited hand-ins only limited by increments of 10. Here you also get direct player power through the threads that dropped as well, and then any other loot on top.
The removal is because they wanted players to replay the content, not go off and farm frogs for days, which was essentially overshadowing all other aspects, that’s where it became unintended. It was causing a huge imbalance between those who knew about it, maybe through the PTR or remembering that charms dropped off those froggies all those years ago, from those who didn’t.
Though a day before the nerf Wowhead did write an article, but at that point people who knew beforehand, were so far ahead. Then came the change/nerf, which then caused this whole debacle we’re seeing now.
If you want to do Heroic/Mythic now FTFY.
So there are some possibilities when it comes to getting the Bones of Mannoroth, which is really the only reason to do those raids:
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Wait until Blizzard adds them to LFR, which may not happen;
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Wait until the upgrade costs decrease, which may not happen; or
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Wait until everyone else is geared so clearing those raids is trivial and getting in such groups is also trivial… Now you run the risk that people get all they want and it’s a ghost town but I’m prepared to take that chance.
So waiting is likely the best option.
Clearly you are looking for a quest which grants you max level and max power and all the rewards that someone else completes for you, but you get the reward.
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I do all the lfrs everyday for threads. They take like 7-10 minutes depending on the wait for rp. It’s a loot pinata for everyone else there.
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Waiting is the only reasonable option while the costs are what they are.
Personally, I’m farming the cosmetics outside of SOO now, and one of the following will happen:
1.) I’ll start to consider gear upgrade costs after unlocking all the cosmetics outside of SOO. (I’m already decently there over a number of alts. I’ve fully bought out the World and Heroic/Mythic vendors outside of items that require bones from SOO, bought a couple toys, several mounts, and a few class weapon appearances. Once I have all of those items (currently buying out the normal raid gear transmogs), then I might consider gear upgrades.
2.) Blizzard will fix gear upgrade costs to be reasonable, and I’ll actually do that instead of leveling another alt to get transmogs more efficiently and effectively.
3.) FFXIV: Dawntrail will release first, and I’ll go play that instead. Blizzard, that means you have less than a month before you lose my interest if this game mode isn’t fixed by then.
100% an exploit, quit comparing it to anything outside of remix. An exploit is something that is an unattended consequence, The ability to gather that much bronze in such a limited amount of time is an exploit, stop talking about “but frog farming’s been around for a long time” when everyone is referring to the bronze (and before the rollback, cloak threads). Froggers are so desperate to defend their actions.
At this point I’m convinced the froggers claiming “but it wasn’t an exploit!” are doing so out of a guilty conscience.
They know what they did was wrong. They’re just trying to justify it, probably to themselves as well.
None of us are fooled.
10 hours to 70 on retail in slow if you’re trying to level fast. I can do that alone without going for speed and just queueing for dungeons on a healer/tank on timewalking week.