PSA: MoP RemiX - The Numbers (Where to get stuff)

[Lingxiu-the-forgotten-coast]

@Jhaella-maladath

@Lingxiu-the-forgotten-coast

Nerfing mob farming is utterly stupid though, that’s been a staple of the MMO genre since the days of Meridian 59 and EverQuest. It was an alternate route to power.

It wasn’t an alternate route. It was so lucrative it was the route, it consumed all other routes. It was so lucrative that players segregated into two different classes of players. It was so lucrative you could be done with the mode in a few hours.

Then bring up the other routes. Yes, this means that the ‘fast and overpowered’ event might get done with quickly. Oh the horror, a quick way to advance in WoW that isn’t a paid boost. This isn’t supposed to be a Retail squeezefest of our time, this is meant to be a goofy event where suddenly Garrosh is fighting for his life against 25 raid bosses.

Hammering it with the ‘Fun Detected, Fun Nerfed’ retail bat is stupid. This isn’t Retail, and nothing in this mode aside from mogs and character levels will carry over.

@Jhaella-maladath

Bronze gain was abysmal at the start for any other method, and they’ve since improved those. If anything, mob farming should’ve been balanced against other methods. But we’ve already gone over this, I just don’t think they had a QA team to really help them work this out.

Firstly, one of, if not the biggest MMO on the planet just not having the pennies to throw at QA is laughable and unacceptable if it’s actually true. If this is the kind of penny-pinching they have in mind, then TWW is going to be a disaster.

Secondly, you’re right. Bronze gain was absolutely atrocious. As was the wild overtuning of mobs and instances once you hit 70. Guess what the solution was? And because this balanced out the problem so nicely, people rightly figured this was acceptable gameplay because, guess what, it let people actually play the game.

The frog farms weren’t the problem, they were the solution.

@Jhaella-maladath

@Lingxiu-the-forgotten-coast

It should be viable, and dungeon resource output should be balanced against that, rather than locking down any interesting facet of the game that can lead to advancement.

Is it interesting because someone can just sit in one area and spam AOE spells to cap out on gear, bronze, and the cloak in a matter of hours? Again, if dungeons, scenarios, etc., were balanced against hyperspawn farming, people would be done with the event in hours. Blizzard clearly wants this mode to last for a little while at the very least.

That’s what alts are for. This entire event is based around three things: Mog farming, super-powered players, and raising alts. Blizzard is hopelessly naive if they think they’re actually going to get 3 months of engagement out of a side mode that will up and vanish in 90 days with nothing to show for it. Let your players have fun blasting through content that might otherwise stonewall them, nothing aside from the mogs matter here, and a majority of those can be earned even harder on Retail-side.

@Jhaella-maladath

@Lingxiu-the-forgotten-coast

What’s more concerning though isn’t necessarily the removal of the farm, but the retroactive punishment of players for playing the game offered to them in the way it’s been played for nigh-on a decade. That is a worrying precedent that Blizzard has set, and legitimately begs the question of if we’re supposed to ask if we’re allowed to kill groups of mobs nowadays. There was someone in this very forum asking if it’s okay to mass-kill frogs for gems.

This is people being histrionic. As I have pointed out multiple times and no one complaining about this has even acknowledged it because they know that this is the truth: The cloak nerf doesn’t matter because you don’t get to keep it anyway. The only thing you keep are the cosmetics and the item level, which will be replaced in TWW later this summer anyway.

Then why bother worrying about people who hit the ceiling faster? You’re right, the removal of the frog farm made two classes of player and locked in those castes. Do you know what the solution was? The frog farm. If they’d just stop trying to apply every little Retail balancing metric to the mode, people wouldn’t be whining nearly as much because, as the frog farm and other farms that came from its ashes proved, there were other routes to power and the gulf would vanish by the Johnny-Come-Latelies doing their grind, getting powered up and joining the fun.

Now we’re literally at a point where players are asking ‘is it okay to farm this mob now?’ That’s absurd.

@Jhaella-maladath

Mob farming has never really been a viable path to late state power in WoW. It has been a viable path to rep farming and currency farming, but not specifically to power. You are not able to get Mythic raid level gear by just mob farming in WoW, at least, for the most part. Titanforging notwithstanding.

If someone found a way to reliably farm up drops and was willing to roll the dice on Titanforging, would that be an exploit now? Does it have to be raid-or-die again? What about alternate resources that yield almost as much, if not more influence, like cornering the AH or gathering nodes?

The biggest mistake Blizzard has made is making M+ and Heroics be the top end for player power, instead of letting them just hold titles and mogs.

@Jhaella-maladath

I don’t suspect Blizzard will remove ilvl or cosmetics from people who got bronze, because they did not bother to do this and instead gave everyone else bronze to catch up a little.

40K is a pittance. That’s one round of gear upgrades, and between two to four days of Bronze farming, depending on your rates.

[Cica-proudmoore]

<3 thank you for changing this.

[Jhaella-maladath]

I’m just disagreeing with Lingxiu on this issue. I’m not being negative or angry about it. I have nothing against them, I just don’t agree with their assessment here. That’s what forums are for. Agreement, disagreement, discussion.

@Cica-proudmoore

Not the scaling.

The scaling was definitely a problem though, particularly on Dark Animus it still is.

[Cica-proudmoore]

No arguments on the scaling. Nor your point on the purpose of forums, or free speech. But there are TONS of other forums for discussing just that. There needs to be at least 1 positive post in this cesspool, and my momma would kill me if I didn’t at least try to do that here. Again, please keep this thread as positive and informative for EVERYONE as possible. <3 Everybody love Everybody. <3

[Etamalgren-drenden (Etamalgren)]

I mean, this game isn’t called “World of WARcraft” for nothing…

[Cica-proudmoore]

But this game mode is the HP LOVEcraft version of WoW.

[Galabris-alexstrasza (Galabris)]

People need to get over and stop whining about animus. It isn’t a “scaling” issue it is a “mechanics” issue. Animus, unlike all the other bosses on normal, isn’t a 100% total zerg fest…it’s a 99% zergest.

Animus tank picks up the nearest 2 small adds and plops them RIGHT on top of animus. Everyone else slaps their own individual single add 1-2 times to hold off healer aggro and then pummels the animus tank adds/animus. It’s literally that simple. Stop freaking out and running around scared of the tickle add and getting them linked up and hella boosting their damage and stuff.

[Jhaella-maladath]

@Galabris-alexstrasza

It isn’t a “scaling” issue it is a “mechanics” issue.

Mobs hitting for over 1mil is a scaling issue.

I’m not saying it’s not possible. But at the rates of damage that are going out, there is no margin for error. The mobs should maybe not oneshot people if they make a mistake on normal. On heroic, sure, make that the mode where you lose instantly if you do one thing wrong.

[Galabris-alexstrasza (Galabris)]

Hitting for 1 mil is fine when the failure mechanic is meant to hella boost their damage. We can maybe agree it’s too hard for the unwashed masses who are used to literally ignoring mechanics on every other boss to suddenly care about a singular niche ability on 1 boss that isn’t even an end boss in a raid, but it’s still not a tuning issue because those same mobs don’t hit for squat when they don’t have their buddies nearby to give them all the crazy damage boost.

I’m not gonna lose sleep if Blizzard guts the fight/mechanic but I’m tired of seeing people here and ingame keep this defeatest attitude that the fight is down to pure luck or “froggers carrying” and refuse to solve their own problem just as I’m beyond hella tired of my own alts getting declined for the freest of free content because group leaders are under this dumb delusion that if they don’t magically get a frogger, heart of fear 10N (and all the other normal raids) is now unkillable forcing me to make my own groups and compete with the others for the warm bodies which is all it takes and perpetuating this misbelief keeps people deluded. Animus is fine. Do what I said and I’ll 99.9% guarantee he’ll fall over dead.

[Shaandatwo-stormrage]

The arguably most damning part is that, assuming they did a flat rollback and didn’t track how many threads the player collected ,odds are you are screwed anyway. You might not have farmed frogs and still have your cloak rolled back, and I fear they didn’t save the threads so if you didn’t frog farm (for example , I didn’t) , odds are they won’t be able to restore your Cloak so you are screwed either way.

What a horrendous event, man. It’s saying something when some people are even reevaluating their opinions about plunderstorm. At least plunderstorm didn’t punish you for something you did not do.

[Cica-proudmoore]

Yeah, but I’m done trying to argue this at this point. I’ve spoken my peace about it several times, and every time I present the facts stated above, I’m still called a frogger scum and the like. Is what it is. I don’t care about getting my cloak restored at this point. My cloak is already HIGHER than it was post-nerf than it was pre-nerf using the exact guide I detail above. But you know, everyone will have to excuse my froggerness. Again, happy RemiX!

[Shaandatwo-stormrage]

Same boat. So damn depressing they’d let this happen. Meanwhile, the other night I found a tank with 11M hp in heroic HOF who allegedly did frogs but wasn’t rolled back. What an atrocious mess of a event.

[Etamalgren-drenden (Etamalgren)]

@Jhaella-maladath

Mobs hitting for over 1mil is a scaling issue.

…No, not on Animus. Getting hit for over a million by the small animus adds means you’re failing the ‘don’t let the adds link with each other’ mechanic to an extreme degree.

They hit like wet noodles by themselves. Each link increases attack speed by 250% and damage by 150%, with the damage stacking multiplicatively.

Let’s say the adds hit for 10,000 normally. The first link increases that damage to 25,000. The second link increases that damage to 62,500. The third link increases that damage to 156,250. The fourth link increases that damage to 390,625. The fifth link increases that damage to 976,562.5.

[ßorealis-dunemaul]

@Cica-proudmoore

Yeah, but I’m done trying to argue this at this point. I’ve spoken my peace about it several times, and every time I present the facts stated above, I’m still called a frogger scum and the like. Is what it is. I don’t care about getting my cloak restored at this point. My cloak is already HIGHER than it was post-nerf than it was pre-nerf using the exact guide I detail above. But you know, everyone will have to excuse my froggerness. Again, happy RemiX

Follow this guide and you too can be powerful like OP, it only takes 16 hours a day for 9 days straight.

[Jhaella-maladath]

@Etamalgren-drenden

Let’s say the adds hit for 10,000 normally. The first link increases that damage to 25,000.

The first link causes them to hit for 1mil in my experience. Just one add being out of place meant that they were hitting for 1mil, 3 times in quick succession.

If it worked as you’re suggesting, that would be fine. I get the failure condition of the mechanic and I’m cool with it, but that wasn’t my experience.

[Urala-bloodsail-buccaneers]

No instead you’re just screeching into the void.

[Blitzvogel-illidan]

Did you track rates of income when you tested these?

Orbing while killing rares seems to be a better way to farm bronze. It’s about the same income per minute as raiding but it’s repeatable. (At least when I tested them.)

[Cica-proudmoore]

I was already tracking too much, and I also felt like putting any kind of Bronze rate attached to this would leave it open to more flaming. It’s so subjective, too. So I tested mine, personally, yes - but nothing that I will share due to the nature of factors present in this game outside of our control.

[Blitzvogel-illidan]

Well I wouldn’t go so far as to call it subjective but it doesn’t really matter that much, I can test stuff myself at some point, but it would just be easier for me if you gave me roughs since that data exists already.

I’ve been collecting rough information bronze/minute rates for various activities here,

Gear, bronze farming, and threads, all known information/conclusions

Apparently no one likes the science of studying procs so my original thread got removed but whatever. It’s better to clean it up anyways: This post contains a record of bronze per minute farm rates available in mop remix, scaling/gear information, and information about threads. If you have questions about what’s here lmk. All data is collected by me. There’s between 40 minutes and 3 hours of data over each farm strategy. Some information comes via hearsay (hopefully) from the craftsim communi…

I’m trying to rank activities by bronze/min and relate it back to gear buys. (I want to try speed farming bronze basically.)

For orb-ing, I only tested what I thought was the best area, Jade Forest, and it would be useful to know if there are other areas that where similar or better. If you have other information too, like thread collection rates data, which I did not collect, that would be more useful. (Even like average threads per rare, so less specific, would be good.) (This is in there well enough I think.)

GJ by the way there’s a lot of useful information here already.

[Cica-proudmoore]

Happy to help! Thanks for sharing your info, too! That’s what this whole thread was started for, and it seems like yours, too! We need more of you.