2H frost. and its gone

Actually Cata was DW too, that was the expac where ‘Masterfrost’ was born. Frost has been DW dominant since the second or third patch of Wrath. I get what you’re saying; those were the ways you played the expansions, but outside early expansion DW was always the most optimal raid/dungeon dps.

This right here is why the game is trash right now. They released 5-8 specs ready for live, and fixed the rest of their trash designs and number tuning with Essences when the Azurite trait system couldn’t fix those initial mistakes. They doubled down on the Essence idea with corruption but at least by the grace of god corrupted gear isn’t idiot proof.

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You, and these 5 others are not the only people that would want it back or do want it back. So saying “I dont mind” doesnt invalidate what I have said.

I know that 2h right now removes things. But that isnt the point. People have said DPS doesnt matter, and its entirely aesthetics, or I want to look like the LK. With those wants you can play 2h right now. Its also showing that if you dont want to use it right now then there are actually problems. The problem being “i cant use these abilities”. Aesthetics is really just the look in this case. Its really the only sense that aesthetics would stimulate. Saying attacking too fast would look funny is a visual issue.

Blizzard has also removed choice and some of them have been removed because they dont want people to nerf themselves. Hybrid builds for example back in cata, I remember they were talking about it and even other youtubers, that hybrids were just dps losses. There wasnt a single build like a perma pet blood, that performed well at all. They were sub par and they limited it for new players or bad players. 2h would be a dps loss. You have to take everything into consideration. You cant just say “im fine with it so bring it back” if there are issues that would come with it. I dont know of any other reason Blizzard would say “we would like to” in terms of 2h which kind of implies that there is some “but” in there that they didnt say so you have to go off of past things that they have done. They want things within 5% of each other, roughly. That is their target, they dont want people nerfing themselves over that threshold, they want easy balance so they just have to turn a couple of knobs and thats it.

Green fire also doesnt change anything, its a color shift. Its along the same lines as asking for purple fire, or the warlock have water visuals than fire. It doesnt change the damage or mechanics. 2h would be missing some of these mechanics unless the argument is for Transmog which is then the same thing.

Razorice provides 15% frost damage when stacked up. Fallen Crusader gives a 15% str buff when it procs. The spec is balanced around these 2 things. The increase in damage is absolutely huge. Even with my poor excuse for gear (since the entire game isnt downloaded for me and I cant really go out of Kul Tiras, I have gotten almost 100k crits with Frostwyrm’s Fury while the base damage isnt anywhere near that for me. These things combined together make for a huge increase in damage, and stacking up pillar of frost before you do these abilities of course.

The 2h advocates, have been going on for what, close to 4 years now, complaining about how they lost the ability to use a 2h weapons, while trying to justify the return by bringing out false information and the like. I really dont see how I am a victim other than through character attacks and other insults that ultimately get threads shut down or posts hidden or just removed along with replies to those posts.

The only time I would say that 2h should not return is if it is through the MoP/WoD model. There were more issues with those models than a them being a balance nightmare. Like masterfrost or mastersimple which completely removed parts of the spec. Despite me saying that you can play 2h right now though its severely lacking, is just that, you can play it. However, if you did play as you think you should with DW through reading the abilities and so on, obliterate would be a dps nerf since 2 howling blasts at a certain mastery threshold would do more than a single obliterate.

Balance is important in an MMO whether people like it or not, or if they are willing to take a hit. Others might not. We should all know that progress runs or pushing higher keys will mean no 2h to be used. That shouldnt even be up for debate.

I also gave a different example that people just overlooked for some reason. If someone said “I want a more powerful engine in my car” and I came said “then you will need to upgrade your suspension and braking system” does that mean that they shouldnt put a more powerful engine in their car or that with more power comes the need for better brakes and suspension to handle that power? So if I point out that there would be a problem if 2h returned and that problem being its missing 15% frost damage, that does not mean that it shouldnt. Its basically saying “alright 2h is returned and now people are doing 15% less damage than DW due to this” some people on the forums wouldnt mind even though thats a lot of damage overall since everything but obliterate is frost damage and other people would. When something is so far ahead you are almost forced into it just from a community/guild standpoint.

I also think that its a “if you arent with me you are against me” mentality. Its everywhere. Not everything is either this or that since there is more to a lot of things than just 2 sides. There isnt just a 2h vs DW thing going on which people make it out to be continuously.

Again, its pointing out issues or telling people that 2h would not solve obliterates hitting hard again. That too does not mean 2h shouldnt come back its just that they shouldnt be surprised that if it does come back that obliterate wont hit any harder than what you see now. Thats it.

The spec is not hard to understand. At all.

So you did 40k aoe dps with 2h. People are getting what 100k+ with DW? Thats 60k dps difference. You are missing out on a lot more rime procs, you are missing out on Frostscythe spam which if running Icecap it resets pretty quickly.

The only thing you have shown is you can make a 2h build that functions but you are forced into BoS beause there is no runic power spender.

It means you said something that was completely irrelevant to what was proposed, because brakes and suspension have absolutely nothing to do with the engine, so a potential buyer would understandably become annoyed if you did this.

Modern propositions require modern information

Well not you of course, but 100k DPS is easy in 5+ target AoE. Even without Focusing Iris or Breath of Sindragosa.

I’ll just bookmark this for an obligatory rainy day.

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Screenshot it.

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No it doesnt, because with a more powerful engine, you need a lot of things to actually handle that power. You need better suspension, brakes, tires, fuel pump. If you dont have better suspension the force the engine puts on it will be greater than what its designed for, sometimes it can completely twist the rear axle out of the car. Too skinny of tires and they will just spin in place and you wont be able to use the extra power to its fullest. Put a more powerful engine in without upgrading the fuel system and its a useless endeavor because you dont have the fuel delivery that the engine demands. Not to mention you also have to get it tuned unless its an older engine that works off of a carburetor. So while you can just drop in a more powerful engine you just wasting your time without actually doing what is necessary. You would also have to upgrade the transmission to be able to transfer the increased power without stripping the gears inside of its teeth.

Its not irrelevant at all and you saying its irrelevant just goes to show that you want it your way and whatever other people say dont matter.

And again another attack on me because my character is at a low ilvl. How sad of a person you are if you continuously bring that up when it has been absolutely destroyed by multiple people.

Go ahead, bookmark it. I dont know what that is going to do since that is really all that you did even though its not fully functional since you do not have an actual runic power dump.

Sorry to be clear - I was pointing out what specs/how I played during those expansions. I did not really do masterfrost in cata.

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I think we need another 2 handed frost post.

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Followed by:

I’m really not about to get into a conversation about cars because I don’t want to be lulled to sleep mid day nor get too off-topic, so I’m not going to go into detail as to why your explanation is ludicrous and had nothing to do with what I said, again.

Death Strike.

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Because you dont have a point. You said that its irrelevant yet I showed how all those things work together. Or would you want a customer that just wants a powerful engine without actually making it up to par coming back in 2 weeks complaining that they are roasting tires in a week?

Again, you might not care, but its very safe to assume based on the history of this game that other people would. Why do you think they were trying to balance the 2 weapon sets since at least cata where they tried to bring 2h up to where DW was using MotFW?

As you said before, it is just math. You keep saying it won’t work and point to specs from Years ago. You keep saying it will be suboptimal and pugs won’t want anyone with a 2H. And you keep saying we need 2 enchants on a 2H to make it work.

This is all made up by you and is neither here nor there, because you are not the one developing the class.

I want a 2H and I want to play Frost. A lot of people want a 2H and want to play frost. That is as far as we as players need to take it. Blizzard developers and class designers are the ones that have to make it work. All I am asking is that they try to make it work. There is a LOT of interest from the players and I genuinely think the devs want to make this the best experience for us.

The recent expansion to new races is awesome. The recent upgrades to the eyes looks amazing. The new starter weapons look great. There is some renewed attention in DK’s and I love it.

Here’s hoping for some 2H come 9.0

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Of what wont work? Balanced and make it work are 2 different things. Its not made up. I struggle to understand how it isnt clear.

People who have been complaining about 2h are also not developing the game. I can also say its not WoD anymore so get over it. If you guys can bring up playstyles from the past then I can bring up math from the past.

Yes, Blizzard class designers are the ones that have to make it work. And they keep removing things when people try to make it work, its almost like they dont want it to exist.

I shouldnt have to say this a 50th time. The numbers are so similar through tooltips that they wouldnt have to do much of anything to make it somewhat balanced. To make it work would be to just lift weapon restrictions. Thats really it unless you want a separate playstyle for 2h which is the only time I say, no. That caused a big problem for the spec.

Most people dont care about a weapon, if a weapon choice kills the spec for you then your interest in the spec is very shallow.

There really isnt a lot of interest. Its the same like 20 people at most on the forums complaining about it for 4 years while everyone else has been looking at the spec.

If you guys dont want to bother with trying to make the spec better then move on and let other people do it. What was that one thread about that was hijacked by 2h supporters? A thread about the spec? Blizzard knows your want, you can stop posting now and let other people that have a deeper interest actually help blizzard.

All these things you are saying look awesome and great are just your opinions. Just like its people opinions that 2h looks cool. Which I think both look cool. Imagine that.

Opinions however do not exist in math. So if there is a mathematical problem its best to point it out so that it can be addressed. I really dont get how its not just common sense.

So did we resolve this issue yet?

Pretty sure the dev team knows what the mathematical issues are if they are in fact testing this out.

No one who has 2H as a dream really wants to hear you say how it can never work over and over based on hypothetical and opinionated math.

That’s all. I want 2H frost (fantasy right now) and you say it won’t work based on math from your fantasy of how it could work.

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Why would they be testing it out? Frost is in a good place right now so there isnt a reason for them to be doing anything with 2h right now.

And you do not have to read the forums. Im not forcing you to do anything. Its also clear that you bunch have a severe failure to read.

Do you dispute that if weapon restrictions were lifted that either 2h would be missing 15% frost damage or a 15% strength proc buff? These things arent an opinion, its a fact. 2h is only 1 weapon while DW is 2, and the spec is balanced around having both of these runeforges.

Call it an opinion or hypothetical all you want, it only makes you wrong. Its neither because its one of the biggest differences between the 2 weapon sets have had since Wrath of the Lich King and why they had to make Might of the Frozen Wastes to try to bridge this gap that 2h lacked.

When did Blizz say it was ever going to be a thing again?

Not tracking they did, but DKs speculate very passionately.

They haven’t said it will or won’t, but it is something they “would like to do”

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You cannot make this claim. You don’t know what people want. And the weapon choice IS the spec, so your second claim here is invalid.

We’ve already established with patch notes and citations that Threat of Thassarian first was added so players would actually use DW because it sucked so bad. And again, with citations, we showcased the countless buffs that DW got, while 2H stayed in a general homeostasis up until its removal in Legion. You just denied what you were seeing. We have those posts too.

Works CIted:

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Not sure if maybe you have failed to read the numerous “bring back 2H frost” threads. But that is why they should be testing it, because so many people want it back.

Yes I 100% dispute this, because: wait for it…There is no 2H frost spec right now. That is why these forums posts are being made.

You are not playing this hypothetical 2h frost spec so how can you possibly claim anything as fact? So, your opinion on how much damage loss 2h will be in the spec that does not even exist right now is just that… an opinion.

I can do it too: “9.0 2H frost is a 30% damage increase over DW, not sure why anyone would bring DW frost DK’s to pugs when 2H is so much better”. Or, here is another: “9.0 2H and DW are so close in DPS numbers, it is really up to the player to choose what they like best”.

And again, I (and many others) want 2H and I would like the devs to try to make it work.

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