Yeah it really hurt seeing sym Be changed so drastically. Especially since sheâs now less of a dps then she has ever been
Replying to dat beginning of the thread ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
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Imagine writing something extremely powerful off as a gimmick when you can easily learn when and where to utilize them simply through failing at them.
If you still want to see near immediate value out of one, ult a turret bomb. Congratulations youâve just crossed the first line as to how to use her ult as a pseudo dps ult instead of a purely defensive one.
itâs a gimmick. Iâd only ever use it in Total mayhem.
If gimmicks in this game did not work, nothing and I mean nothing in this game would work.
Maybe we got this all wrong the roles itself is still the problem. Maybe roles should look like this and we should rework heroes accordingly.
(Following Heroes of the Storm recent changes)
Supports: Sombra, Sym and Zarya
Lurker Dps: Reaper, McCree, Roadhog, Doomfist, and Mei
Range Dps: Ashe, Bastion, Hanzo, Genji, Tracer, Widowmaker, Junkrat, Pharah and 76
Tank: Reinhardt, Orisa, Brig, And Torb
Bruiser: Winston, D.Va, and Hammond.
Healer: Moira, Zen Mercy, Ana, and Lucio
I know there are some weird suggestions but to be fair, I would not call the current roles well defined. (Seriously)
Then someone on another thread said they were âunderratedâ 
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Something did have to happen to shield gen, because while it was oppressive to play against, it did so many bad things.
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It lived for 10 seconds vs anyone with a brain because they knew exactly where you could effectively put it and would B-line for it. Tracer bombed it, people accepted âlul ult4ult 4headâ when it was completely onesided as SG was 10x more valuable than pulse bomb while taking Tracer no effort or risk whatsoever to accomplish.
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It tricked teammates into playing outside of its range which could easily become a snowball situation.
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Encouraged Sym to be away from the fight for an ample amount of time, and you couldnât really just leave a teamfight while on point to go place it (youâd be better off just placing it immediately since it would be destroyed anyway).
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HP stacking was the absolute most fun way to play Sym but it made her OP. As I said, many teammates would play aggressively outside of its range which cut whatever benefit they got from armor and Sg in half. They play so aggressively that their hp pool and dumb plays allowed them to make at least a trade each. Then, the remaining enemy team try to push point on the trades while being met with a 500hp Sym who guard dogging the point who could literally walk at both supports and kill them and maybe even the remainder of the team by herself with no real effort other than target prioritization. But this only occurred if, as I said, the enemy dumb enough to not kill SG as it was the backbone of the whole strat. It dying was usually met with an immediate loss.
Her current ult can only be effectively countered by one thing, and is essentially 5k health for your team with a duration as opposed to 450 collective hp permanently (10 seconds for 450 vs 15 seconds of 5000)
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Hmm. Iâm going to have to disagree on some parts.
This never really happened from my knowledge of playing Symmetra 2.0. 9x/10 when people attempted to go look for it they usually died in the process or literally could never find it. I donât know but even in GM tracers would endlessly search for the thing and be eventually met with an orb slap.
In my opinion - YES it was just an Ult For an Ult. Symmetras ultimate (especially Shield Gen) from my way of playing her was - just a utility that could be expended. I mostly focused on killing Supports/Flanking the backlines. I never really cared for the thing as it could easily be recharged, especially if it died in a fight.
I really never had any problems with this nor did I hear people ever complain. However I did have problems with MYSELF accidentally walking out of its range and going âOh dear. I appear to be out of my SG range, no matter, I will still be able to melt this Zenyatta, the mercy attempting to help and the random Hanzo as I spam ADAD crouch.â
This was the wrong way of playing Symmetra. You NEVER wanted to place your ult down in a fight, UNLESS you were using it as a bullet shield. The ult was just to placed down AFTER a fight had been won (As it mostly would be won especially if your mercy would just latch herself onto you, and now you have a walking Lava beam of death) Even if it wasnt won, you could save the ulti and place it down depending on the situation.
Yes. It was fun, it was when I thought Symmetra was at her best(Especially when pulse bomb got nerfed) But OP? No. Not at all. It was a cheese strat that could be easily countered.
Huh⌠Those were the times. But I could have done this anyways without HP stacking and just the old 275 Hp. But, why is it not okay for Symmetra to be able to that. But a character like Genji can kill an entire team with a push of 2 buttons. Or a junkrat can kill an entire backline with 0 effort besides a bomb and 2 nades?
And that is why it was not OP. Becuase it was easily countered/broken.
However, I can see where you are coming from. Shield Gen was an ultimate that either carried a team, or did kind of nothing.
BUT- The character NEEDED it. Her squishy stature and lack of mobility/range was GREATLY helped by SG. Without it even now it is MUCH harder to play Symmetra. The ultimate was one of my FAVORITES, not because It was just on Symmetra, but because it forced people to play in ways they didnt like to. It made people re-think how they were going to go about teamfights.
Do I leave the Sg alive and let everyone have an extra 75 hp?
Do we send 1 person over to it such as tracer/genji and possibly have them die making us wait to push?
Do we waste ultimates on it? Possibly not even killing it?
Shield gen IMO was much better at fitting Symmetras kit than her current Supportive wall. As it helped nullify (not amplify im stupid) her weaknesses and made her a better dps and support for her team.
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⌠its one possible use of her kit. Not something you use all the time.
A good teleporter bomb can win a game though and you know that.
You guys gotta stop being so petty.
You act like Symmetra is this helpless little victim cuz you dont like her beam and youre just wrong. She has a lot of potential for damage outside of her beam and you need to stop ignoring that.
Otherwise the devs will just keep ignoring you because youâre childishly trying to create an argument on half truths.
But the beam is not the only thing about her that is wrong.
Her teleporter as an ability is clunky and very wonky to use. It canât function properly with Railings/Ledges and doesnt excel at its gimmick either.
Her turrets while good, still die to basically anything and take a very long time to recharge.
Her ultimate is lack luster to many players and doesnt feel right with the character, as she is the ONLY DPS with a Supportive non damage dealing ultimate.
But her lack of Survivability is what bothers most people. She canât really survive in a fight anymore with how close she has to be with only 200hp and no movement abilities/Protection for herself.
But we arent creating half-truths. People are speaking from experience and knowledge about the hero. We all know that TP bombs can win a game, but it almost never happens anymore. We all know that Symmetra counters no one but is countered by just about everyone. We all know she isnt in a good spot atm and that she needs more help.
WE ALL just want her to fixed, and some of us are vocal about a specific part.
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You know I am just post other famous Sym articles that were posted this year about pretty much the same thing:
New Symmetera is a Massive Nerf by Shadow
Symmetra lock on beam is an iconic ability, pls dont remove it, we can balance this! by Fyren
Why Sanjay (Symmetra 3.0) is Not Symmetra and Why You Should be Angry by JangBahadur
Symmetra Rework Opinions from a Symmetra Main by noitubirteR
Sym 3.0: worse pickrate than 2.0, winrate DOWN 7% by OneLyf1Trick
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No. The people arguing with me here are saying garbage like âZarya is a better DPS than Symmetra isâ.
Which is idiotic in itself but absolutely a half truth cuz those people are ignoring the rest of her kit and acting like her beam is her only means of fighting.
I think Symmetra needs some changes. I do NOT agree with the narrative these people push that she gets outperformed as a damage dealer by Zarya.
Its petty, deceitful, and untrue.
Also, I like her ultimate and think it fits her kit well but I understand why others dont like it.
Then they were genuinely stupid. Like defending Hanamura B, there was literally nowhere effective or safe to put it besides outside your right spawn entrance/exit. Like all placements had one genuinely optimal place, and 0 amount of turrets or orbs did anything about âblink->blink->blink-> Bombs away!â Which always happened short of a Dva sitting on top of it to matrix or Hog tanking the pulse Bomb with this body, which is a waste of both of those heroes times.
And no, the entire reason itâs destructible goes back to beta where Sym granting perma 50 shields was too strong with flankers. You wanted that extra 75hp on them as long as possible, so losing it in 10s to a braindead ult that she will get back more quickly than you was not a fair trade. Not to mention one Dva or Zarya cut your ability to gain ult quickly in half.
There was one instance where it was a genuinely OP guaranteed fight winner, and that was attacking Volskaya point B where it could be placed in the mansion beside the attackers point A spawn. Even if they knew exactly where it was, going for it made the fight a guaranteed 6v5. Itâs one counterplay became a detriment and you were better off leaving shield gen alone which still granted an advantage to your team, so it was a lose/lose situation.
NOOOOOOOOOO. That does not happen unless they are bad. Zenyatta was one of the supports Sym really did not stand a chance against even if she had shield gen up. He will just discord you and put you down. Especially when pocketed by Mercy, who in turn nullifies the first two levels of charge and turns your level 3 beam into the level 2 beam as long as sheâs attached to someone. Even then, both Mercy and Hanzo can easily get out of your range while still being able to heal Zen. Everything about that is just wrong.
Thatâs exactly what you used it for in that situation. Dying was too risky if they were capping the point, and even then, Teleporter was undoubtedly a better choice to just throw out because there was a solid chance it would go up as one or two teammates are respawning for near guaranteed value.
Because you could only rely on that strategy when people are bad and donât just shut you down immediately. Junkrat is so reliant on map geometry that he probably canât even see to do something like that and was better equipped for it because he could do it at range.
Her only way of even having a chance of killing remotely anything was already being at full charge, but more commonly, getting good at her orbs. Her 2s charge time slow as butt old orb. This is why Iâve not had 0 issue with 3.0 using them as a primary mode of attack. Blizzard saw this was the case in top Symmetra play, and is why her orbs are why they are in their current forms. Even then (I use this example all the time) in a perfect scenario, you could hit a Mccree with an orb to put him at 75hp, block his flash, and he could still kill you even with shield gen up faster than you could burn through that 75 hp at a 7m range.
Which put Symmetra in a state where if it were not destroyed, she also kind of did nothing, so it was lose lose for her. Sym was an ult bot with ults that were easily countered. The only thing she did when they were up was hand deliver enemy support ults to the enemy team.
It was good for her but she didnât need it by any means. I feel most of this forum never played 1.0 or never have developed or have forgotten the survival mechanics necessary to playing her and are at a genuine detriment trying to play her 3.0 variant without that template. Youâve never not had to play safe with Sym. Yes, sheâs always benefitted to being sneaky and aggressive when she was allowed to be, but 2.0 had to play safe as well.
Her TP even with its current deploy time can still be used to escape more heroes than youâd think even if reactively deployed. Itâs also nearly guaranteed that if you do escape, 100hp of that damage will not matter, so she doesnât need large amounts of healing and can generally do with a mini health pack. Shield health is a mechanic only Sym has in the DPS category
Since this is the case that two other heroes share shield health, it cannot be universally buffed to benefit Sym because both Zen and Zarya would be way too strong as a result. I always wanted shield gen to grant shield health the 1s delay of Mercyâs regen as opposed to its current 3s. Alternatively, this could be given to Sym as a passive to not only synergize better with Zen and Zarya (two heroes that have always synergized well with her) but to give her more sustainability that isnât nearly as ridiculous as what most of these Sym threads suggest. She doesnât need 50-75 extra hp because sheâd be too annoying, and Sym has enough mobility to where she could easily not be anywhere near Shield Gen anymore.
Only because it has been an aspect of her kit since 1.0, but you have to realize: The only two good things about old Sym was really the TP/SG. They were the only things that separated her from being a support into being a horrible dps, and everything supportive about her was both so easy to mitigate and nowhere near as effective enough to rival healing. The only thing that rivals healing in this game as a form of support is a barrier, which is the entire reason they gave her the Photon Barrier in the first place and the only reason itâs currently her supportive ult it is now that is far more powerful and useful as an ult than it is as a basic ability on an unnecessarily long cd.
Not to mention, TP was waaaaaaaaaaaaaywaywayway more effective on attack as a team flank strategy than its easy to find and destroy defense counterpart. At first I was skeptical of every decision Blizzard made this rework until I remembered this bit after 100 or so hours into 3.0. Blizzard also realized this, and it is the entire reason they turned TP into an ability, because of this one stupidly powerful tactic.
And the beam? The shield eating mechanic? As I said, most smart 2.0 players spent most time spamming orbs/feeding enemy support ult because she couldnât do much outside of that. The only reliable source of charge that wouldnât cause her immediate death was in fact stray enemy barriers. Blizzard also saw this, so they gave her more range and the shield eating mechanic as a result.
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Even if the enemy uses an ult to take out shield gen they traded and ult for an ult which has value. Then they had to put a lot of work in just to get to shield gen and get out. It made the enemies overextend and use lots of resources.
Shield gen was a super fast ult to charge there where matches I had it in 15 seconds before the first fight even started
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For the record? I actually âcanâ dps better as Zarya than the new Sym. Once in a while I run into an enemy team that doesnât know how to fight turret bombs and I abuse the heck out of it for that one match. But for the most part Iâm stuck getting most of my Sym damage just from her orbs.
Which is fine, but⌠I can pound for pound destroy with Zaryaâs beam and right click better in most cases. Her charge up mechanic is just far more oppressive and snowballing than Sym 3.0âs beam could ever hope to be, even after the 1.6s charge buff comes through.
Sym 2.0âs beam was far better than both between her 275 hp with sg, the toss out barrier defense, and the perfect damage without being split into 20 chunks and wasted on armor. Plus the fact that it actually countered the more mobile heroes.
You claim that it is deceitful that Zarya is a better dps than Sym 3.0 but personal evaluation has it being true not some kind of propaganda.
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^ This (gave you a +1 Like), plus anyone who ever claimed that a Tracer ult being used to nullify Sym ult was a good thing for the Tracerâs team was very short sighted. That same bomb could have taken out 1-3 players⌠so basically every SG that got pulse bombed was doing the work of old Mass Rez Mercy.
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Lol Zarya is a much better dps than sym will every be thatâs why she is run in goats she has amazing utility and dps while sym is just the taxi lady
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Sombra was still an EMP bot at this point as and pulse bomb shared the ability of actually expendable ults with little risk to themselves. They both could get thereâs back quicker than she could.
If sombra uses emp on shield gen that would be very good for the syms team.
Shield gen is usually in small rooms while new syms ult is with her team
So sombra gets tons of value ulting new sym while she could only trade ults with old sym
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But youâre missing the point. Symmetra ends up having 0 value if she commits turrets to protect her ult. If sheâs trading that much value with 0 potential of netting a kill? You can expend your entire kit and it doesnât change the outcome one bit. That was always ridiculous to me. If a Tracer has ever had difficulty knowing where to go or how to kill it or if they ignore it, they were not good.
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