Mass Rez Mercy | Interview, Dichotomy & The False Narrative

For those who aren’t aware, yesterday a twitch streamer has interviewed a developer on the state of Mercy and got some answers (both of which I will keep unnamed here, but I will however link the video for reference).

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/332079781?t=01h29m56s

I would like to address the convo they have on Mercy, specifically her rework and the reason they gave for staying with it.

In short, the devs look to believe that statistically Mercy is in a good spot, which is fair. I like to make note that they seemed to have really emphasized that “statistically” she is fine, and that is why they are happy with her. And I can agree with them here, I think that as a dev, it makes sense to see the numbers and see her no longer be as strong and quote “OP,” as she was during it’s initial phase.

They also go into detail on how Mercy is a strong pocket healer (everyone I’m sure knows this… Though I personally don’t think that’s her ONLY purpose, but I’m getting ahead of myself here, sorry.)

Then, after one of the people in the chat called out the dev, saying they, quote “screwed up the rework” (though admittedly, was pretty inappropriate to say to them), it seemed to have gone down hill from there, in a way that I was hoping it didn’t go.

Afterwards we can see the streamer (understandingly offended by the remark), take it upon themselves to defend them. I find that action commendable by the way. What I don’t find commendable is how they went about it. They resorted back to defending Valkyrie, and used the same old, outdated rhetoric (that has been proven countless times as being based entirely on subjective opinion). And they reiterate the “unfun to play against” argument for mass res being removed.

I found that moment in time strange, because the streamer isn’t a dev, yet it’s evident that we see him literally losing his composure for a bit, cutting off the dev before he could even speak for himself, and then taking control of the conversation under misconception and a false narrative, rather than simply ignoring it. I’m not sure if that was a good idea on the streamers part, because not only was addressing that comment in that way making the dev look bad, in my opinion, it sets the tone for a black and white dilemma where multiple solutions, including a revert, exist. There is loads of feedback given on how to make her work with mass res, and the streamer using the “unfun to play against” propaganda, which by now has been proven multiple times as a horrible way to balance a game, shows how out-of-touch they are with the rest of the community. In all honesty, it looked like the dev was genuinely going to say something, but was forced to just agree on a, quite admittedly, very weak reason for reworking the hero, and leave it at that. And this is exactly the type of misinformation I’ve been voicing my opinions against, namely in my previous threads:

Because… even then… My questions to them both would still be… Why didn’t they just balance her like they did with Valk? Why didn’t they just patch Mercy to be able to Rez through walls? Why couldn’t they have just given her a cast time? Why go with the entire rework and risking it become OP (which it did)? Valk was arguably made even more OP than 1.0 res, due to her 5 month reign. And they couldn’t explain how that happened, other than saying “We took too long to address it.” Well, does that not apply with Mass res being invincible as well? And the hide and seek Mercy?

Sorry, that argument is a classic example of a false dilemma. They could have balanced her back in 1.0. They chose not to. And therein lies the problem.

Looking at the streamer in question, it’s apparent that they are in the pro scene, which isn’t helping the already infused stigma of the top 1% not knowing the issues of everyone else in the game. And still, for the record (in case anyone would be wondering), thanks to that streamers knee-jerk reaction to force his opinion into the conversation on Mercy as if it’s fact, there is still no official statement that says that “mass res won’t be coming back.” But I suppose that would be a good thing, since there’s history of official statements being brought back on their word (even the devs acknowledge this at this point).

What is clear, is that it is still business as usual, and as people will still believe that it isn’t coming back, I will continue to believe that there is hope for it returning. And with previous reverts to her kit in the past. I believe that the chances of this happening have only strengthened. It’s clear that Mercy is not in a good state in terms of engagement, impact, or rewarding gameplay, and I believe that while we are certainly in the right direction with her, that there is a lot more work to be done.

But those are just my thoughts for now, just thought I get it out there. Do you agree? Maybe you completely disagree, and that’s fine. Let’s keep the discussions civil, classy, and proper, and thanks for reading! :blush:

“This was a huge success! (r)”

Inb4thesalt<3


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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-Mercy isn’t getting any type of rework
-She isn’t getting any buffs until they see how she’ll perform with the Valkyrie buff
-They talked about Mass Rez and how unhealthy it was for the game and the “Hide and Rez” strategy that some Mercy mains liked to use
-They admit their mistake that Mercy’s balancing was too slow and the 1 year Mercy Meta could’ve been ended earlier than It actually did.

EDIT: Rag Tagg summed up my reaction to this topic in general (the Mass Rez topic, that is) perfectly.

(It starts at 4:45. If you watch it at this post, you’ll be right at that time frame.)

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They explained why mass rez was being removed in the developer update about removing mass rez

You are welcome to disagree with the decision, but its not coming back

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You really ain’t need to quote all that

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We have just been told there are no plans to rework mercy. There is no believe about it. There is only what has been said, and sticking your head in the sand.

Mass rez is gone. It’s time to accept that.

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Just a reminder that mercy 1.0 was so bad no1 used her. Then she got some healing buffs. Then nothing happened for a long time. Then she got immunity during ress. But I agree, we should go back to the first mercy <3

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“Unfun to play or play against” is sometimes used as a literal reason, or a reference to the consequence the mass res ultimate brought with it.

Former is just an argument by people who don’t know what they are talking about, while the latter implies the countering of a coordinated strike using several expensive resources with just a press of one button.
In essence, mass res was a culprit because it encouraged mindless deathball strategy, where 5 players just go straight to catch and kill enemy mercy or another important target only to be stopped by at least one ultimate and force misposition on opponents. Then, after all is done and all are dead, they are brought back to life with better economy and positional advantage (in some cases).

The bottom line is that “resurrection” by itself is a very hard ability to balance. It will either be really good or hard to execute at the cost of being good.

When mass res existed she was mainly played situationally because the dive composition never allowed her to stay alive long enough to be useful (and spending an ult to bring back 1-2 people only to get them discorded and deleted again wasn’t that much useful). However, when she was against a non-dive team, she was extremely useful because non-dive teams don’t focus backlines. After the rework, Mercy took the place of Lucio in the dive composition and reigned supreme due to providing way more healing, survivability and great utility in terms of single instant resurection.

Whether you bring back mass res or not, it will not change the state the Mercy is in right now. Mercy was only popular and dominant during Valkyrie + Improved Res. Right now, she is situational at best, because Ana can heal better and her utility is more reliable.

You want to bring Mercy on the same level as Ana? Then get rid of her resurrect and provide her with more reliable and not-so-obnoxious utility.

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Honestly I think they should just scrap Rez all together.

It’s holding back her kit :confused:

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Well, good luck with that.

I do think devs are aware Mercy isn’t in an ideal qualitative state. And that there will probably be changes coming sometime in the future.

But if “Gimme MultiRez” is Plan A.
I’d suggest coming up with a Plan B through Plan Z.

Or else devs will continue to listen to other people on the subject of Mercy.

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I respect your opinions, but I’m sorry. I’m going to have to disagree.

  • They said that Deathmatch won’t happen. And then, we were given deathmatch.

  • They also said that “there are no plans to revert Mercy.” Months later, she’s had multiple reverts of her kit, from voicelines, to her main healing, and then further with her Valkyrie healing.

The facts remain however. I will continue to voice my thoughts, and I will continue to voice my opinions. I believe that mass res will most definitely make a return in some shape or form, and a twitch streamer who has expressed their bias against the ability and speaking for a dev is not going to convince me otherwise… But hey! I’ve already shared my thoughts, and I respect yours. We’re going to have to just agree to disagree on that. :blush:

Allow me to ask you. Do you believe that heroes should be nerfed based on their abilities being “unfun to play against?”

I appreciate your thoughts, but unfortunately I’m not sure if I can follow you there. I am pretty sure that there is no evidence that proves that Mass res “cannot be balanced”.

In my opinion, the solution is simple. Mass Rez + Damage reduction, 1.25s cast time, and LoS, and call it a day. I don’t believe it’s as complicated as one would make it out to be. None of those tweaks have been performed on the ability, and the reason for the rework still, isn’t justified. So until we see some sort of huge compensation for it’s removal to make up for it’s lack of engagement, impact, and reward, I believe it’s fair for me to vouch for the contrary, just as people are fair to vouch how it wouldn’t happen. :slight_smile:

Are you sure? Neither of us can predict what will happen if it made a comeback, but only give speculation. You believe it won’t change her current state, and I believe it will. And no, I don’t believe that the problem is with Ana. I believe Ana is in a great spot and shouldn’t be touched. The problem is solely with Mercy, and that almost every other support has more utility, a greater reward for their risk, and more impact in their games, and the 30-40% drop in Mercy’s pickrates after her healing nerf seems to be proof of it.

I’m sorry, where did I say that I want Mercy to be the same level as Ana? I don’t believe I’ve made that claim. I believe I’ve already stated the issues above as to why Mercy is struggling right now. Do feel free to read above. :blush:

Thanks! But I’m not here to worry. I believe it’s time to bring Mercy back to where she is both impactful, engaging, and rewarding to play again for everyone, not just the 1%, and not just for those playing against her. I believe it’s time for a Revert + The tweaks, and with previous reverts to her kit already happening, I see nothing but progress on her current state, and will continue to share my feedback and thoughts about it, no matter how long it takes. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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I played her from the get go and only left after the rework got worse and worse. Many people just played her because they liked her and had fun while playing. Mercy had an amazing pickrate in QP and as far as I know that went down quite a lot with the rework. So you can assume people left or play different heroes now.

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So, question.

What will you take as evidence that Mass Rez is, without a shadow of a doubt, not coming back? Or is there no answer because muh deathmatch?

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Inb4

Also:

Deathmatch is a silly gamemode and those baby revert’s are no where near the power of an ultimate.

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“Unfun to play against” is a subjective notion by itself, as such it has no value in an argument without proper elaboration on the subject.

It used to be bad for mercy to execute and get away, so she was mediocre. They added immunity after res with line of sight requirement, reset on guardian angel. Mercy sees play in a fair amount of games, but suffers against heavy dive. People realized that one ult counters several at very little cost; even mercy mains complained that they are sick and tired of hiding and waiting for people to die just so they can use their ultimate.
This is evidence enough.

Your suggestion with cast time just makes it useless, because we have a lot of CCs in the game.

Pick rates dropped because resurrection was nerfed, not because of healing. Mercy’s healing wasn’t as important as the fact that she could instantly bring a dead teammate to life, and then do it again after Valkyrie and again due to reduced cooldown.

I don’t speculate. I know what will happen, because it already did happen, and I explained how it did happen in an earlier comment in this post. Mass res is dumb; resurrection itself is a dumb mechanic if it’s given out for free with very little drawbacks in a game where killing your opponents is a crucial strategy for winning. (DOTA2 has aegis of immortal which requires a lot of resources, planning and strategy involved to first get it. Then you sacrifice item slot for it; it has limitted time; and the res takes 5 seconds; and it is a single target res) (LOL has GA that requires a lot of gold; does not improve your offensive capabilities; has no defense against magic damage; has a 2-3sec delay; with half or lower hp)

No, you did not make such a claim, but it is a general comparison of two main healers. When one is better than the other, the pick rates differ.
However, your main argument is that by bringing mass res Mercy will be in a better spot, which will not happen because mass res is an obnoxious ability. As I stated before, it will either be good or good and hard to execute to the point that it is bad.
Mercy is not struggling because she does not have mass res; she’s struggling because she provides no meaningful substitution for Ana. Hence, my comparison between the two and using “you want” as a generalization to bring Mercy on the same level as Ana.

Like I said before countless of times, resurrection cannot be an all-round useful utility in Overwatch. It can either be significantly situational, very hard to execute (thus, useless), or completely obnoxious.

The best solution for Mercy would be removing resurrect altogether, and replace it with another type of utility that can be just as useful as Ana’s biotic grenade.
Bringing back mass res won’t solve any problems; it will only create more.

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“But we should get It back because you don’t think current Mercy is fun.”

How can fun not count for one side…but then count for your side??

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Hmm seems like you’re still giving an opinion in your previous posts. That’s fine! We obviously have opposing views on the topic, so it’s probably best to just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Thanks for offering your thoughts on the matter though! :blush:

Well allow me to answer that question with this one. How is the argument of “unfun to play against” valid, but the argument of “unfun to play with” not valid? Are they not both subjective opinions, not based on fact? :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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Spitting truths, great thread as always! <3

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They are both Vaild. But one side has more people.

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I seriously had to rewatch what they said because what you describe is nowhere to be seen, emongg never looks upset nor is YOUR rhetoric present at any point on that video

Furthermore, you got your answers, gratz

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Thank you love! :heart: It also occurred to me that you’ve posted a vid on the topic shortly before I posted my thoughts here, and I’m diving right into it now… Great minds think alike! We’re in the zone!

Oh more people you say? Do you have an exact estimate from a date source that statistically measures how many of the 40 million + players are are pro “unfun to play with” and how many are pro “unfun to play against”? If you do I would love to see the link, since I think it would be super helpful in this topic. :blush:

Ah Hige, making your daily rounds on the Mercy threads I see. Very nice of you to show up in another one of my threads!

Sorry, I’m going to suggest looking back into the stream and see his tone change in regards to the snide remark aimed at the rework. Maybe to you it didn’t seem to be a reaction, but I certainly seen a behavioral change in his voice and posture. Whether it was due to the rudeness in the comment (which admittedly, was a bit of an snide remark to say to a dev, no denying that) He most definitely sounded defensive to me and may have clenched a cheek or two from the bluntness of that comment. Not that I think it was a right thing for that commented to do, but it was just something I’ve noticed, and found to be a bit amusing. :wink:

Also sorry, but I don’t believe I got any of my questions answered, just more of the same things that was said since the beginning of her rework. So while I do appreciate the premature congratulations, I must ask that you hold on to that for me until she gets a revert of mass res + the tweaks. :wink:

But hey! If you think the streamer is unfaltering in the most stressful of times and believe that what they say is the gospel, I respect your opinion and definitely don’t judge. To each their own my good sir. To each their own. :blush:


~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
:blue_heart:

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