I’m glad you think playing Mercy is fun and engaging, Soldier/Torb/Sombra player.
I cant speak to the “every time”, only this particular time - but - you had implied that Mercy doesnt have a real ult when she factually does
I disagreed with the statement that was made
Yes, sure, she has an ult. You can be as technical as you want, but it still doesn’t feel like an ult. It feels more like a glorified flying button.
I (and many others) enjoy using Valkyrie as it is. I find it to be fun, effective, and balanced. To me, it is more than just flying, and I have found many uses for it.
Which would be great if she benefited a lot from the gained positioning (Imagine a flying widow. That would feel much more useful and fun than a flying Mercy), but she really doesn’t
In my experience, I do gain a lot from the additional positioning options when in Valkyrie
there’s more bad stuff gained from your newfound power than good stuff.
In my experience, I have yet to encounter any drawbacks from use of Valkyrie
Currently her ult feels:
- Unimpactful
In my experience, I have found it to be very impactful/effective, and in a number of different ways
- Outclassed by other ults
In my experience, I have found it to be one of the best ults in the game, and Jayne has said so as well
- Not much different than her non-ulting kit
For me, the experience is much different
I’m glad you think playing Mercy is fun and engaging, Soldier/Torb/Sombra player.
I think you must have me confused with another player
Why does it feel like you don’t actually play Mercy…
Saying that the healing of Valkyrie is not outclassed by Zen’s ult or that the damage amp of Valkyrie isn’t outclassed by Orisa’s ult doesn’t seem like something someone that actually played Mercy would say…
Also, what benefits do you gain from the new positioning? Widow can peek from corners more easily, but as Mercy you’re stuck behind your tank’s barrier and flying too high makes you an easy target for hitscans.
Forcing widows out of position could be one benefit, but you can do that even without flying, and you’re losing value as a healer if you spend too much time trying that. Even Moira can do that without (and with) her ult by just throwing a damaging orb at her and still keep healing her team while the orb does its job.
You use “in my experience” a lot, but it feels like you actually have little to no experience with Mercy, or any other character, for that matter.
You use “in my experience” a lot, but it feels like you actually have little to no experience with Mercy, or any other character, for that matter.
I play Mercy quite a bit.
One of my 3 most frequently played characters.
Then feel free to explain why you believe Mercy hides on live currently. Not how, but why?
What are you referring to with “why?” Why would any hero hide? To avoid being seen by the enemy team. It still doesn’t prove your point in your false claim on what you thought I said, nor does it disprove my statement that pointed it out. You were objectively wrong there Slyther, regardless, and now you are trying to change the question. Quite cute.
You have a nasty habit of saying I’m wrong, but never actually explaining yourself or countering my points. If you want me to stop being wrong, then spell it out for me.
Nasty habit? I believe you are projecting an opinion there, and will unfortunately have to disagree. I do believe I have explained it quite plainly actually when I gave my quotes, but if we choose to not be open-minded to admitting your mistakes, how can would this discussion progress? Denial is only the second sign of grief afterall… You are free to disbelieve the unfortunate truth, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I would suggest reading the previous response to your question over until you understand it. I don’t believe I need to prove anything else to you other than what was already said, and trust that you’re smart enough to make the connection eventually in terms of why your previous claim was completely false.
Ultimately, all of this is irrelevant.
That’s why I ignored it.
And so, an example of denial, the second sign of grief when met with fact. Right on que. Thank you for proving my point.
The point wasn’t so much as to actually prove that “you’re always complaining” (I thought that was obvious hyperbole, but ah well), but rather to simply point out that you obviously seem to think Mercy hides on live.
I mean, you seem to be back-tracking at this point, which I find amusing. It’s okay for us to admit when we’re wrong. We all make mistakes. I’ve already explained why Mercy hides even today, and have done so in previous posts. I don’t need to beat the dead horse. If you don’t understand by now why Mercy still needs to hide in order to rez, I don’t know what else to tell you, other than to do some research on it and read past posts. I’d rather not circle around the same argument of “he said she said” today with you when you could easily find the facts from merely scrolling up, if you don’t mind. If you are still in denial about it, well… I said what I had to say, and so did you. So we’re going to just leave it at that.
I never made a claim for whether or not Mercy actually hid before.
Did I say you did? I don’t believe I have…
I never made a claim that she hides now.
Did I say you did? I don’t believe I have…
I don’t care when or why you made the argument of “She hides currently.”
Then I would suggest not jumping into conversations and quoting people with accusations, without knowing the context as to why. Again, I would reccomend scrolling up, and maybe actually reading posts instead of cherry-picking and ignoring what you don’t like to read, so you don’t end up asking people in threads for it as you are doing now. Context, it’s quite important.
And now, I’m simply curious about the fact that if you can make that argument now, why couldn’t you make the exact same case with your changes? What would be special about Mass Res with the same restrictions such that Mercy wouldn’t have to hide to use it? How would your changes actually fix the hide and res problem if they don’t actually offer anything new?
That’s the contradiction I’m wondering about.In laymen’s terms: What’s the difference?
It’s a simple question. One that you have yet to answer.
“Not offering anything new” has no relation to whether or not “the solution is fixed.” If you’ve read (and no seriously, you really need to start reading context before you post, since you are literally asking questions that could literally be answered if you simply scrolled up and not ignore things you don’t want to read ) you would realize that I’ve said
I don’t think you have the authority to speak on what is solved or not until it’s actually put into practice. At this point, we’re just givng opinions, and since you apparently have no solutions to give me that convince me to try anything else, I think it’s fair for me to continue to hold the view that such a solution would solve her problems, until proven otherwise.
As I said before, I’m open for alternative suggestions. If you’re just going to sit here and complain to me by saying “That’s wrong, it won’t work” but don’t offer solutions on what will work, I’m afraid that nothing could be learned, and the fact that you have admitted to not even having a counter-solution to what I’ve proposed doesn’t get my hopes up. You have so far, left me to believe that my solution is in fact the best one right now in the meantime, and I have yet to hear anything else from you that would suggest an alternative idea.
Otherwise, I’m literally calling you out - if you don’t like the suggestion, that’s completely fine. I think we all get it for the past few months now, you don’t like mass res. How about instead of complaining about why it won’t work, offer a better idea than what I’ve given? I literally challenge you to do that. It’s easy to say something won’t work, but it’s a lot more difficult to say what will. So hey, let’s hear your solution to fixing Mercy’s current problem, since you apparently seem so “opposed” to mine. I’d love to hear it!
That’s not how opinions work, though.
I could think the world is flat, I’ve never left the surface of the Earth to prove myself otherwise, and I can write off “evidence” and “logic” of the contrary as just misleading propaganda.
That doesn’t mean I’m not objectively wrong. It gets to a point where I stop having an opinion, and I’m just in denial. At least if I were to have more of a reason to think that the Earth is flat than “just a feeling and hope I have” then it’d be understandable to take the stance.
Except… it is.
o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun
- a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Could we please stop with the platitudes now?
No, but I’ve played with what’s on live now, single res with a 1.75 cast time and LoS restriction.
That’s nice, I have as well, but the fact remains. You haven’t played with Mass res with the suggested tweaks, and neither have I, so we are merely making assumptions on what will actually work live and what won’t. I rest my case…
Outside of tweaking numbers, your solution doesn’t seem to change anything when compared to what we already have. I’m just asking you to explain what actually does change and how it would stop Mercy from “hiding”, which, again, you still have yet to do and would rather take the time to talk about how much I seem to flatter you.
That’s a wonderful opinion, and I respect it. But I’m afraid you are just projecting what you think is wrong with my idea, without countering it with one of your own. So… Once again, give me a better solution Slyther. You are repeating this expression of why you think something is wrong, and I’m literally waiting for a better alternative from you. Once again, let’s hear what you can bring to the table in terms of Mercy’s current state. How would you fix Mercy and make her more engaging, impactful, and rewarding to play, that will appeal both to people who want Valkyrie and Mass res?
I just want you to talk it through logically. That’s really it. Explain to me why it’d work. I may or may not disagree with your reasoning, sure, but at least then you’d have some.
I’ve explained it to you “logically,” both in the past, and already in this thread. You have even made posts in threads I’ve made on Mass res and why it would work, and you’ve ignored it and are continuing to act like such reasons don’t exist. This is why reading is very important. I would suggest going back, do your research, and look up my various threads that detail why I think Mass res “works” I have literally loads to choose from, but the first step would be to wait for it… actually read it.
Here are 10 reasons why I believe that Mass Ressurect is Returning to Overwatch. Get your popcorn, this will be a long one. Ressurect was changed based on an opinion of it being “unfun to play against” instead of actual statistics and data. “Hide and Res” was also an argument used to push the rework - when in reality, Mercy still needs to hide in order to res even today. Mass Rez is arguably a lot more balanced than Valkyrie, only needing minor tweaks, versus 10+ sledgehammer nerfs. Lo…
For those who aren’t aware, yesterday a twitch streamer has interviewed a developer on the state of Mercy and got some answers (both of which I will keep unnamed here, but I will however link the video for reference). https://www.twitch.tv/videos/332079781?t=01h29m56s I would like to address the convo they have on Mercy, specifically her rework and the reason they gave for staying with it. In short, the devs look to believe that statistically Mercy is in a good spot, which is fair. I like to …
[image] DISCLAIMER: I would like to preface this by saying that this is my opinion. You are entitled to agree / disagree with it, but let’s keep it positive. Remember, this is an opinion. An opinion that may differ from your own. Thanks! So I hear about Mercy getting some patch notes in the PTR, and upon looking at it, the following changes are to be expected with her: And for those who are wondering, yes, this is actually another Revert! Wow! What is this …
With Torbjorn’s rework on the horizon. I’ve been doing a bit of thinking in terms of how his ultimate would function against the supports. Most namely, Valkyrie. Looking into it, it seems that due to her having seemingly a sky-box, spectator mode camera for an ultimate, area denial ults like Hammond’s mine field and Torb’s Molten Core will have little to no affect against her. This means that effectively, area denial ults have little to no counterplay against a Valkyrie Mercy, since of course,…
Here’s a pretty in-depth video that really goes into detail as to why Mercy 2.0 doesn’t work in this current state, and why she needs a Revert. It’s a pretty lengthy one, but it goes over a lot of the reasons why some Mercy mains still feel like there isn’t a lot of impact with her, as well as break down the effects of chain healing on the game from the player’s perspective, as well as other points that aren’t really talked about on the forums. I highly recommend listening to this in the backg…
Right now your entire argument is just beating around the bush and repeating “you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you don’t know for certain, it could theoretically possibly happen in some form of an alternate universe” no matter what kind of logic is presented, and write off any form of a counter point with the almighty “that’s, just, like, your opinion, man” instead of trying to help someone understand your own.
If you were to actually explain why you think the way you do, it would save everyone a ton of time, and the devs might actually take some posts seriously.
Thanks for projecting your opinion, that was very cute but you are once again missing the context there of what I am constantly trying to have you understand. If you want to be given an explanation, you must first actually be willing to listen and read what is in front of you, without ignoring it or cherry-picking parts of what you think is being said. I am noticing that you really are struggling with that there, and I’m not exactly sure why that is. Needless to say, it sounds like we’re going over the same things once more. As said previously, do your research, scroll up, and search the threads and actually read them. I’m not going to constantly repeat what’s been said to you multiple times in the past before about every minute detail as to why I think Mass rez will work, and I trust that you’re able to do your own research to see that to be true. And if you still have doubts, check out Titanium’s threads. I’m no longer going to be repeating myself with you regarding Mass res, so keep that in mind!
Sure, I’m an advocate of the same. If you have a problem, offer a solution instead of just needlessly complaining. But if I don’t have a problem, what do you expect me to say?
Like I already said, I’m fine with how Mercy is, with my only gripe being potentially addressed. Why would I waste time making suggestions to change that?
Besides, I’m not needlessly complaining either. I just don’t agree with you, and that seems to be something you don’t like. At least I offer reasons why, though to try and fix that “problem” (for lack of a better word).
What you perceive me to like or “don’t like” is irrelevant to this discussion. What I would like to hear are solutions. So far, you have given me none, and have literally have been complaining this entire time on what you don’t like regarding my suggestions. While that’s fine, that isn’t “fixing problems,” and as I’ve stated, hasn’t convince me of considering an alternative to what I’ve suggested. If you have a better idea, as I’ve mentioned, let’s hear it. Otherwise, we aren’t going to go anywhere with this exchange and are going to have to end the discussion right there.
Sorta funny you bring this up when your arguments tend to boil down to even less than that:
“I could be right, even though I have no solid reason to believe so.”
“Pot, meet kettle.”
As of writing this, you’re at 18 responses counting this post.
Out of what is now 4145 total posts.If you want to feel flattered, go for it, but when you make up less than half of a percent of my time, I wouldn’t go as far as saying that I “constantly update you”. You simply make a lot of posts that I disagree with on a subject that I’m invested in, so I give my say like I always do, and I reply to most of the responses to my own posts, which you seem to make a habit of creating yourself.
And while I’d love to keep that “Most replied to” tally going, and though I can’t wait for the next update, due to your repeated attempts of making false claims, and then back-tracking, ignoring truths, and having to be given explanations on things that could have been found from simply searching past posts or literally scrolling up, I believe we are once again reaching the end of our little discussion.
My suggestion to you is trying to come up with actual solutions to problems, rather than getting stuck on what you don’t like about them, but you of course don’t have to take my advice. I believe we have already established that we have agreed to disagree on Mercy as a whole, but it looks like you still insist on expressing why you disagree. And hey! That’s totally fine. But if you really are invested in the topic, I would suggest making a thread about Mass Res, explaining why you don’t like it, and offer solutions you think will work. I’m sure you would get every answer you would ever need that way, not just from what I’ve been telling you, but from the community as a whole. Either way, I wish you well in your endeavors. Have a good one!
~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls
I was going to go into detail on your post, but then I realized that I’m just beating a dead horse.
I asked a simple question, and you still have yet to give me an actual answer.
How would your solution fix the “hide and res” problem?
The fact that you’d rather spend however long it took you to write all that to focus on personal attacks instead of just giving me a basic explanation sorta proves my point, you don’t think it’d solve the problem to begin with, and it’s just an excuse to ask for Mass Res back just to have Mass Res again.
You’re more than welcome to prove that wrong, though. That’s sorta why I asked.
As for the rest…
- What about Mercy’s kit forces her to hide? The other healers don’t have to, so why Mercy in particular?
- I thought when you claimed Mercy had to hide during res, it was because her cast time made her vulnerable, but evidently that was just a wrong assumption where I “read what I wanted to”, and you still have yet to actually say why
- Guess I’ll just say it again. 3 (lengthy) responses in now, and you still have yet to just give a decent explanation as to how a cast time + LoS would stop Mercy from hiding with Mass Res when she has those exact same restrictions on E Res, and yet according to you, she still hides currently.
- I don’t have a problem with current Mercy, and I can’t come up with a solution to a non-existent problem.
- A lack of a second alternative doesn’t make your idea any better. I simply prefer what we already have, thanks.
- I’ve said in the past, in response to you specifically if memory serves, that I don’t actually hate Mass Res and wouldn’t be opposed to seeing it return. I simply don’t like how people present their arguments or solutions.
- Denial is the first stage of grief, not the second sign
I think that about sums up everything actually relevant to the topic at hand, and then some.
Then feel free to explain why you believe Mercy hides on live currently. Not how, but why?
Well, nobody invited me to this party, but here we go.
Tbh Mercy now must hide. Why? Easy. Stationary mode. This happened long ago during game’s beta, and the results were exactly the same as right now. Almost no one liking that ability because it’s annoying for everyone and forces hide and rez (otherwise you die). Yeah, it seems now somepeople like calling that “taking cover” but that’s hypocritical since they called before “hiding” to taking cover, generalising something that was simply a minor exploit. In the most of the cases, she simply took cover during an ult storm and that’s it. If one was hiding, this one is even more hiding, since you can’t choose.
Outside of tweaking numbers, your solution doesn’t seem to change anything when compared to what we already have. I’m just asking you to explain what actually does change and how it would stop Mercy from “hiding”, which, again, you still have yet to do and would rather take the time to talk about how much I seem to flatter you.
That’s wrong. Here is a little fact that makes a huge difference. You are comparing a stationary rez with a not stationary rez. Do you think that’s the same thing? In one case you are sniper bait unless you are hiding, but in the second case you can move and still fight for your own survivality instead of hiding like a coward. That’s the greatest difference. In one case, you are not mobile at all (and Mercy is supposed to be a mobile character, not intermittently) while in the other you are fully mobile.
Yeah, there are more differences like the cast time fitting with the voice line, so Mercy wouldn’t seem like going in slow motion each 30 sec, but the main point is the stationary rez. That was a terrible mistake from the past, and it should never have come back. Mercy never needed a revert back to that.
Like I already said, I’m fine with how Mercy is, with my only gripe being potentially addressed. Why would I waste time making suggestions to change that?
Funny thing, I remember that you made a huge and elaborated survey with a lot of people from everywhere, and the results were that Mercy needed changes because she was bad, this revert (you said rework but okay…) was not liked, and the majority wanted mass rez back with changes. I know, the results didn’t match with your opinion, but you put that effort, so I thought you were going to respect your own results and your own work.
What about Mercy’s kit forces her to hide? The other healers don’t have to, so why Mercy in particular?
Easy peasy, name me a support who must be stationary for 2 seconds during an ability other than Mercy.
I thought when you claimed Mercy had to hide during res, it was because her cast time made her vulnerable, but evidently that was just a wrong assumption where I “read what I wanted to”, and you still have yet to actually say why
Okay, the point here is that you are wrong. Her cast time has nothing to do there. The problem is the slow down.
Guess I’ll just say it again. 3 (lengthy) responses in now, and you still have yet to just give a decent explanation as to how a cast time + LoS would stop Mercy from hiding with Mass Res when she has those exact same restrictions on E Res, and yet according to you, she still hides currently.
Already explained. Do I have to do it again? Stationary rez vs not stationary rez. Please, remember the entire ability, not just a convenient part of it. There is a huge difference. It’s like comparing traditional italian pizza with pizza with pineapple. Yeah, they are the “same thing” because they have some shared qualities (ingredients), but they are not the same already.
I don’t have a problem with current Mercy, and I can’t come up with a solution to a non-existent problem.
You did a survey and the majority of people disagree with your personal opinion. Now you are in denial about your own facts. Maybe you don’t have a problem but people do really have.
A lack of a second alternative doesn’t make your idea any better. I simply prefer what we already have, thanks.
Personal opinion. Anyway, I’m sure you have brain so you can think about something whether if that makes the character better or not. Also, trying to suggest changes in order to make a character better for everyone is not bad, quite the opposite.
I’ve said in the past, in response to you specifically if memory serves, that I don’t actually hate Mass Res and wouldn’t be opposed to seeing it return. I simply don’t like how people present their arguments or solutions.
Well, that’s fine. However, now I wonder how you’d want people to present their arguments/solutions, since we have saw all types of suggestions, arguments, etc.
You did a survey and the majority of people disagree with your personal opinion. Now you are in denial about your own facts. Maybe you don’t have a problem but people do really have.
Fact as it clearly stated in his/her own thread that the don’t even repersent the entire fourm much less the games “majority” that you until blizzard has survey force into every single game of overwatch on all plaforms then “majority” isn’t really factually correct now is it?
Talking about majority… Ow is not liked by a majority of people in the world (maybe because they don’t like it, they don’t play it or they don’t know it). Can we state that it hasn’t succeeded? Want my answer? It’s “no”. The same goes for your post. Yes, no change comes from a majority, we know it, but that doesn’t mean that there are no problems there. This is how real world works.
Surveys are made with the purpose of showing the opinion from a portion of the people. Since it collected feedback from all types of players and not too few, it was a good survey. You’ll never see a survey off the whole population, that’s impossible.
I know you didnt ask me but I want to point some stuff out.
What about Mercy’s kit forces her to hide? The other healers don’t have to, so why Mercy in particular?
No other healer has a stationary ability like rez. So of course they dont have to stand still and hide while utilizing their kit.
I thought when you claimed Mercy had to hide during res, it was because her cast time made her vulnerable, but evidently that was just a wrong assumption where I “read what I wanted to”, and you still have yet to actually say why
A casttime isnt that bad if you can still move during it which isnt really the case with Mercy. Plus her current rez casttime is longer than some ults need for activation. Rein and Lucio have a “casttime” if you will and can get disrupted and countered during it. Meanwhile Mercy has an even longer cast and gets slowed down by 75%.
Guess I’ll just say it again. 3 (lengthy) responses in now, and you still have yet to just give a decent explanation as to how a cast time + LoS would stop Mercy from hiding with Mass Res when she has those exact same restrictions on E Res, and yet according to you, she still hides currently.
Again LoS and casttime are not the only restrictions for the current rez. LoS can also be abused if you know how. So rez behind a wall can still work even if its rather rare to pull of.
How would your solution fix the “hide and res” problem?
Hide and rez was a problem because of broken SR gains but that bug should be fixed so I dont think it would return anyway. Plus its not like it was a good winning strategy since mostly those players had a very bad winrate and could only climb thanks to broken comp system.
Yes, no change comes from a majority, we know it, but that doesn’t mean that there are no problems there. This is how real world works.
yes but that doesn’t mean it’s a predominantly big problem and also having different reasons for the reasonings just as expamle( behind it maybe people only found
mass rez fun do people find juggling beams and health pools fun in the first place) as the point I’m trying to make just because a portion of people
expressing their opinion on topic does not automatically validate their opinion and being aloud to state as a fact “mercy is unfun for the majority of the commuinty it’s a problem for OW”
No absoultly not it does not mean that it’s silly to think that that’s kinda why if find surveys silly cause they do nothing but give people fake validation
from a skewed sample size and it’s kinda why this is the most debated topic on this forum as nobody can come up with a straight up answer as thats why surveys have to be so specific
so people know what to push for but without a acutal huge sample size the forums will always push for different ideals of what mercy should be
and thats not even counting for if the forums knows whats best for the game thats a whole nother arguement.
I’ll be very direct here. Following your logic, it doesn’t matter the amount of people calling for a problem to be fixed, nothing should be done… and the same goes for no one complaining about something because the same logic could work in both directions. How do you really know what the people who is not complaining here thinks? So, your argument doesn’t make sense since it basically says that no survey should be listened to and that no feedback should be listened to. In other words, we would be in a situation where nothing should be changed and everything should be changed since nothing is a minority nor a majority. That’s crazy.
Oh, yes, and there are a lot of suggestions out there, tons of them. That’s why in so many surveys there is a place where they ask your own opinion so you can say what you want instead of the options given. About which one to pick, that’s not our problem. We can discuss each one of them, point out possible failures, advantages and disadvantages, but we are not the devs, so we can’t do their work for them. That would be stupid. We can help them discarding the worsts (and reasoning why), and that’s it.
Finally, about the forums wanting or not wanting the best for the game, I’m sure that if people are complaining about Mercy not being herself anymore because she is not a strong (not op) single target mobile consistent main support focused on (Jeff’s words) healing/mobility, but a cheap but weak hybrid target intermittently mobile consistent off support focused on dps/rez, that’s a good thing (aka, people worrying about what’s best for a character) because that’s saying that Mercy has lost her character and that requires fixing. Valk was removed for good during alpha because it was too bad design, weak, etcetera, and now the same problems are back. Stationary rez was gone too during beta because of the exact same reasons people are arguing now. Reverted mechanic, reverted back to those problems. 50 hp/s healing was buffed for good after season 3 because Mercy was a trol pick with it, with Ana outperforming her as burst and consistent support. Reverted, so same situation again, with the exception that now Moira is there, so she can still compete with Ana at lower ranks, but Mercy is dead as a main support.
a stationary ability like rez
Factually, rez is not a stationary ability
Well, nobody invited me to this party
You’re invited!
Tbh Mercy now must hide. Why? Easy. Stationary mode.
That’s what I thought. But apparantly I was “reading what I wanted to” out of the comments that brought up the hide and res, so I figured I’d ask what the intent was if I was so wrong.
And I was laughed at for wanting to be corrected.
That’s wrong. Here is a little fact that makes a huge difference. You are comparing a stationary rez with a not stationary rez.
Thank you for clarifying.
This is literally all I wanted from the beginning.
When people say “just add a cast time to Mass Res” I always just pictured it as simply adding the cast time we already have, as we already have it, to Mass Res, which is understandable since it’s the only thing we have to compare it to. I don’t really remember anyone specifying that the slow would be removed from said cast time, definitely not in this thread.
You’re right, without the near stationary element of the cast time, Mercy wouldn’t have to sit behind a wall hoping no one turns the corner, and she’d still have a fighting chance for bigger Res’s.
Funny thing, I remember that you made a huge and elaborated survey with a lot of people from everywhere, and the results were that Mercy needed changes because she was bad, this revert (you said rework but okay…) was not liked, and the majority wanted mass rez back with changes.
My issues are my own, and yours are your own.
It doesn’t matter if I’m the only person who doesn’t see an issue. If I don’t see one, then I’m not going to offer a solution to fix it.
Say we paint a room blue. A lot of people don’t like the blue. Some want it red, others green, and some want to just go back to the original white we had before painting. But I, alone, like it blue.
Sure, I can say we probably need to change the color because most people don’t like blue, and that’s fair because I’m outnumbered. But being in a minority doesn’t devalue my opinion, and I’m not going to try and suggest better colors when I think we already have the best color. I can just leave that to the others to debate then roll with whatever comes of it.
Doesn’t stop me from speaking up when someone offers the idea of periwinkle, though.
Easy peasy, name me a support who must be stationary for 2 seconds during an ability other than Mercy.
Exactly.
But again, I was apparently just “ignoring the context and reading what I wanted to” when I assumed that was what they were talking about when they brought up “current hide and res”.
Okay, the point here is that you are wrong. Her cast time has nothing to do there. The problem is the slow down.
I’ll be perfectly honest here, this is just nitpicking.
It’s like saying you’re not allergic to peanut butter, you’re just allergic to peanuts. Sure, there’s a root of the problem, but that doesn’t change the fact that this contains the problem ingredient.
The slow down is still an element of casting Res, and with what’s on live, you can’t seperate the slow down from the cast, thus Mercy has to hide during the cast, and the cast (as it is now) is the problem.
Already explained. Do I have to do it again?
No not really, but thank you for doing so.
Please, remember the entire ability, not just a convenient part of it.
Honestly, at this point it feels like the other way around.
When I say cast time, I’m considering the ability as a whole, with all elements being considered as one.
Whereas you’re the one who’s splitting it up into its different elements (slow down vs duration of cast time) and deciding to focus on one element in particular, and that’s where the confusion was.
When I say pizza, I’m talking about the overall, classic pizza that we’re all already familiar with. I have no way of knowing that you’re simply talking about one ingredient until you specify, and I definitely can’t know that you want to change it.
You did a survey and the majority of people disagree with your personal opinion.
And the purpose of the survey was to help stop with the overgeneralizing that goes on on these forums, and to be used against arguments degrading Mercy mains’ opinions such as “you’re just a vocal minority, stop complaining”.
Sadly, it seems now it’s just been turned around on its head, with Mercy mains over generalizing themselves to the point where everyone has to agree with Mass Res or a Rework, or you’re simply wrong.
Funny how things work out.
Maybe you don’t have a problem but people do really have.
True.
But if I don’t have a problem… then it’s not my problem.
What is my problem, however, is if a poorly thought out change, or honestly just a change I wouldn’t enjoy, were to be taken seriously into consideration, as said change would cut into something I do currently like. So I speak up and point out my problems with suggested changes.
Besides, let’s be real here. The entire “Revert Mercy” idea is built on a selfish notion: “I don’t have fun, but I used to, so we should go back to what I considered to be fun.”
Sure, you can find plenty of people who share the same notion, but the notion is still individually selfish nonetheless.
Is it really so bad for me to be just as selfish, saying I’m fine with what we have?
Is it really a crime to not have making everyone happy be my job?
I’m sharing my opinion just like anyone else. If I don’t think Mercy needs changes, then it’s not my responsibility to come up with changes for Mercy.
Personal opinion
Which part?
If you mean the second part, where I prefer what we already have, then yes. It is my opinion.
But the first part? Not really. Your idea doesn’t suddenly become 10x better just because no one else can think of something better.
It may be the best on the table, but that doesn’t mean I have to like anything that’s on the table, especially when I always have the initial option of just ignoring the table to begin with.
I’m sure you have brain
You’d be surprised.
Also, trying to suggest changes in order to make a character better for everyone is not bad
I’m not saying it’s bad. More ideas are typically good.
But it’s not my responsibility to come up with ideas.
If you do decide to come up with ideas, however, then it is your responsibility to consider any feedback to said changes, both good and bad. You can’t just write off any negativity with the childish “well I don’t see you doing any better.” (Especially when that negativity is just based off of a question about a misunderstanding)
Again, bad ideas are still bad, even if the person pointing it out to you doesn’t offer something better.
However, now I wonder how you’d want people to present their arguments/solutions, since we have saw all types of suggestions, arguments, etc.
Looking back at that, I get that it could be taken as “I have some specific criteria that every argument should hit otherwise it’s deemed unfit for these forums” which wasn’t my intent.
As far as arguments go, just don’t be wrong. Simple as that. If you use what I feel like is faulty logic, then I’ll point that fault out for consideration. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just how discussions are bred. No point to a discussion if everyone agrees on the same side, after all, especially if it’s about a desired change.
As far as solutions go, then since they are subjective by nature, I’ll simply give my opinion on them, including if I don’t like them.
For both, if I seem to have misunderstood something, then I expect to be corrected, not laughed at and insulted.
75% movement speed reduction is almost stationary and significant enough.
I totally agree. Mercy is in a good spot right now and her tuning is right where it needs to be.
Don’t fix what ain’t broke.
I know you didnt ask me but I want to point some stuff out.
Feel free.
No other healer has a stationary ability like rez. So of course they dont have to stand still and hide while utilizing their kit.
That was my point.
A casttime isnt that bad if you can still move during it which isnt really the case with Mercy.
You see, no one ever specified the separation between the actual cast time duration, and the slow down. At least not to my knowledge
All we’ve ever seen on live is the two together. So when I say “cast time” I’m talking about all of the elements that go with it. Likewise, whenever I see someone else suggest a “cast time on Mass Res” I naturally put the slow down with it because, again, that’s the only cast time we’ve really ever known.
Now I understand that I was looking at things differently than others, so thank you for clarifying.
Again LoS and casttime are not the only restrictions for the current rez.
I consider the slow down as part of the cast, similar to how McCree is slowed down during his ult. By that definition, they really are, which is where the confusion comes from.
LoS can also be abused if you know how. So rez behind a wall can still work even if its rather rare to pull of.
Eh, still need LoS to start the Res, you just thankfully don’t have to maintain it.
Hide and rez was a problem because of broken SR gains
I always thought that “problem” was interesting. We used to have an issue with healers not getting as much SR as other roles. We complained about that, Blizzard attempted a fix, and then people exploited that fix to skyrocket.
I wonder what would have happened if we simply didn’t complain about SR to begin with.
Plus its not like it was a good winning strategy
That, my friend, is a debate for another time.
Oh dear lord. The power of a flight Mercy getting out of battles and using infinite pistol rounds.
As much as I like playing as Mercy this change does seem pretty OP when you could quickly tether nearby teammates with the heal/damage beam, or get quick picks as a Battle Mercy rushing in to take out a 200hp hero.
Take away Infinite ammo, slightly increase fire rate, and boom a bit more balanced.