Removal of Splish-Splash Welp

Community Discussion
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Hi! I’m a long time Druid player and I’d like to know why Splish-Splash Welp was removed from Standard play. It’s a card that I was super pumped about being in the meta and I don’t feel that it should’ve been removed.

Was it strong? You betcha! It allowed Druid players to ramp while including Dragon minions in their lists. Or is ramp being removed altogether from Druid? If it is… I REALLY am not a fan!

Hoping for a response that makes sense and isn’t automated. I enjoy Hearthstone but if this is the route that the game’s going, I’ll likely be moving along to something else.

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They stated in 2023 they were going to dial back ramp, so be a not fan as you may it was a “Limiting Design Space” fix/decision.

Gift into growth(turn three/two with a coin) still exists and what everyone considers the problem card(that which whelp is paying the price) Doomkin is still around.
Also crystal cluster at 6mana(gets you 3 empty) can get you from mid to late game really fast

This ban also isn’t suppose to be permanent just until PIP(perils in paradise) is released, and it may see a nerf/change at that time

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See also the linked article there for a detailed explanation.

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It both ramps early and provides Dragon synergy. That, in combination with how the rest of the meta has shaped up, has put Dragon Druid too far ahead of every other deck.

At least according to the data the devs have access to.

The core issue is how consistently Druid can get to 6+ mana ahead of other classes, not the cards that cost 6+ mana (like Doomkin). I have not heard any complaints about Doomkin being broken in Warlock.

Sure Doomkin isn’t fun to face, but it’s not the most powerful card in the Druid deck. That was actually Splish-Splash Whelp.

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There’s no need for quotes. That’s literally what class-exclusive ramp does to this game.

I already tried arguing this in a different thread, and certain people didn’t want to hear it. The plain and simple truth though, is that if there exists even ONE single card that costs 6+ which is justifiably powerful for the cost, then Druid will ALWAYS have an advantage because they’ll cheat it out on turns 5, or 4, or perhaps even 3 if the stars align.

Class-specific ramp is a problem for Hearthstone, that has existed since launch and persists to this very day. Splish-splash is just the latest manifestation of the symptom.

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wait so in other threads people didn’t believe it was “limiting Design Space” so I DO need the quotes as it means I’m quoting team 5 and not what everyone believes

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Let me ask you this, do YOU believe it?

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My post wasn’t about my opinion, simply giving information to the OP on the situation that has gotten splish-splash banned. If I’m passing on the opinion of someone(team 5s, yours or anyone) I will use quotes

I don’t design the game I play it, so if team 5 says it limits there design space I guess I’ll believe them… soft yes?

PS: ramp isn’t a huge issue in MTG sometimes its good sometimes it isn’t so clearly it can exist in a game if balanced right

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Even if you disagree with the opinion of other users like
-Kewl
-SparkyElf
who in other posts state splish-splash isn’t the problem and Doomkin is doesn’t change the fact that not everyone believes he is the problem so my post is 100% accurate in saying other people think to Doomkin is the problem not whelp.

Also if Reno whos overall deck win rate was below 50% can be nerfed to 10 mana for sentimental reasons why can’t Doomkin go to 7 or 8 for sentimental reasons instead of banning splish-splash?

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Give the link and block quote the relevant lines, if such were your intention.

No, what you’re doing is posting “their opinions” in “air quotes” for “particular emphasis” which will imply you “question” the legitimacy of those statements. Just like I did there in that sentence to you.

I asked you your opinion straight up, and you’re saying you disagree with the actual developers on what is problematic for the game they are developing. That’s totally fine. Just, you know, be honest about it.

And that’s about as relevant to Hearthstone, as the price of watermelons last January.

You don’t need to justify it, man. You disagree with Team 5 and you agree with those other people. That’s honestly, totally fine. It’s not like we’re discussing high-stakes politics with complex moral implications.

It’s a video game, and you don’t agree with me on certain things about the video game. That’s fine. Just be honest about it.

EDIT: Would just like to add, my intent was to engage in an honest discussion. For example, if you think Doomkin is the real problem, and not splish-splash, I could ask you: why do you feel that way? What evidence might you have to support that idea?

And, if you simply wish to respond with “that’s just how I feel” then that’s fine as far as it goes. I’m not saying you have to justify your feelings, but I am saying facts don’t care about feelings.

2 Likes
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I value the actual data that the devs have access to far higher than random posters who go “Waah! My opponent took one of my mana crystals! Ban now!”

The devs have actual data showing which cards have the biggest impact on the game. They can see exactly how much both Doomkin and Splish-Splash Whelp change the game. And they identified that the Whelp was the far bigger powerhouse.

Doomkin on 6 is meh, sure it doesn’t feel good when the opponent steals a mana crystal, but it’s not the end of the world at 6 mana (unless your deck is crap).

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I lmao when I saw BAN NOTICE message in game and it was this happy little whelp like what the heck did it do to warrant a ban? Lol

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The deck running rampant on the ladder isn’t even always colloquially referred to as ‘Dragon Druid’. They call it, for example, ‘Doomkin Druid’, ‘Hybrid Druid’ etc — anything short of ‘That One Druid Deck’…

For instance:

https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/29-6-2-hotfix-patch/

In Standard, Splish-Splash Whelp is now temporarily banned. This is an answer to Hybrid/Tempo/Combo Druid (however you want to call it) that has been all over the ladder for the last couple of weeks.

https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/top-standard-wild-legend-decks-whizbangs-workshop-week-16-july-2024/

The same Druid deck seems to have reached its peak popularity and it’s sitting at around 30% play rate in Diamond-Legend (down to ~20% at some ranks and up to almost 40% in Diamond 1).

But alright, there’s also this:

https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/top-standard-wild-legend-decks-whizbangs-workshop-week-14-june-2024/

This has changed with a new Druid invention that started gaining traction early this week. Some people call it Hybrid Druid, others Tempo Druid, sometimes even Dragon Druid. The deck is a bit hard to classify, as it’s an interesting mixture of tempo, burn, and even some late-game plays.

So it is a possible way to call it in a way that’s understandable for many players, I guess — I’ll give you that.

Put your face faith in da Light devs, mon! They clearly are very competent, always know what they’re doing and never bungle their job, especially trivial matters, right? Right?

As for the rationale for banning the card in question specifically, I’d suggest the first article linked above (see also this post again for my opinion).

Define ‘most powerful’. Seriously. Preferrably with formulae, all that Bayesian stuff and whatnot, which some adepts of ‘trackers’ seem to not understand at all, blindly believing in a ‘win rate of a card’ (it’s probaly another self-repetition by my… a quick search found this post, for example).

Alright, gimme facts… Not long posts about your personal opinion or those of others. :grinning:

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People actually believe this to be true.
Crazy world we live in.

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Well, it might be true, but, in my opinion, the problem is the following: even if some numbers from trackers etc are available, it doesn’t mean they understand or know how to read and interpret them.

The same pertains to the forums: there are plenty of those playing pundits and talking about ‘SaMpLe SiZeS’, for example, as if they got any clue about it, but raise a trivial mathemathical question — and they’ve got nothing substantial to say. See, for instance, this: Let's talk MATHS - #2 by SparkyElf-2852 — and yes, turns out I’m repeating myself again.

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I just find it funny that people think the devs put more effort into balance changes than just browsing Reddit and third-party data sites.

People actually believe Blizzard holds and considers match data beyond what these sites offer. They even use this as a stepping stool to promote Blizzard’s legitimacy regarding nerfs. It’s the funniest thing ever.

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:grinning: Well, that’s the point: even if they are mostly competent at oh-so ‘politically correct’ Twitter posts about their supposed ‘identities’ and whatnot, there are people in the community like d0nkey and others who could come to their rescue. Not that even it would always help… :grinning:

Well, theoretically, they could — there were rumours that someone related to the dev team was involved in one of the deck trackers, but it’s hard to tell for certain.

Back to the theme I touched above, namely pundit-wannabes and the like: it’s funny how the most zealous and fervent proponents of ‘di fakts’, ‘fallowing di saiense’ and so on are often complete laymen (not surprising, according to the Dunning–Kruger effect) — like school pupils believing absolutely in the textbook or common people following the ‘authorities’ (or those they perceive as such; hmm, come to think of it, blind faith in the game devs would also qualify in this case :grinning: ) like sheep. Professionals would often know the limitations of their methods and even admit that, strictly speaking, something like so-called ‘evidence-based medicine’, for example, in practice can be just as much hoodoo as actual voodoo :grinning:, if its own criteria would be applied rigorously.

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blizzard doesn’t seem to like control decks. I don’t remember the last time an aggro or fast mid-range deck was nerfed.

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What have we here: a case of clip culture from the TikTok generation, with a short attentions span and all that, or an ‘elderly man with a poor memory’? :grinning:

Two words: Umpire’s Grasp.

PS I’m not even brigning up the matter of the Undertaker Hunter or Patches the Pirate, mind you.

(Upd.: expanded and edited a bit)

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I put together a random (aka bad) Baku Hunter deck, I literally just searched up “damage” 1 and 3 drops and that was most of the deck, and it demolished any Druids it faced…so how strong is/was Druid, actually, if this can happen?

Or is it me that is the outlier? Idk but I just didn’t see or encounter this oppressive Druid deck that apparently warranted an emergency ban on a card like splishy splashy