I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were God and decreed that we could only ever play 1 game in our lives.
Im sorry I didn’t realize you were God and decreed that we should change a game that so many love in order to make you happy because if you dont enjoy something it should be changed to make you happy. You are right play what you want if you dont like Diablo 2 dont play it.
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No one is suggesting to change the game. You can play in the current manner to your heart’s desire. This is an option that you do not have to use. And in not using it, it will have absolutely no effect on you or the economy.
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That remains to be seen.
Well, first off, we’re asking for something separate so that you don’t have to be any less happy. Seems like I care more about your happiness than you do about mine, Mr. Go-Play-Another-Game.
Second, D2 not having personal loot doesn’t mean I don’t like it. I’m simply arguing for something I think would make it even better.
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Because there are things that D2 does better than PoE and things that PoE does better than D2.
If there is a way to bring a good system from PoE over to D2 without impacting D2 then there is no harm in it.
So far there have been only few common arguments against ploot that would make d2 worse. All have been more or less debunked.
First i will list the common arguments that debunk:
- same item drops as in FFA mode (en par with 8 player pub)
- FFA mode is still available
- statistically loot is distributed in a fair way over the course of multiple games
- Solo MF runs and FFA games are still more efficient ways to get loot
- in FFA games you can see items, but do not necessarily get them
- not everyone enjoys the “adrenaline game” of item grabbing
- more accessable to new players
- leechers get only 1/8 of the items, arguably less than in FFA
- adding extra rules might prevent leeching (e.g. distance or damage)
- timed loot could make loot accessable for everyone after a short time (e.g. 1-2 seconds)
- prevents pick it as a nice side-effect
- it allows to focus on other aspects of the game more (gameplay, social, etc.)
- it does not have to be efficient
- we are paying customers just like you
- remaster does not have a clear definition
- the devs asked for feedback / are open for QoL changes
- some players are playing in an disadvantage (technical problems, social situation, health situation, etc.)
- not everyone has a full list of friends available whenever they want to play
Counter arguments:
- destroys the economy → 1, 3, 4
- more efficient ways to play the game (e.g. Solo MF, private lobby) → 2, 4, 13
- you are destroying d2 → 1, 2, 6, 7, 13,
- you split the community → 6, 7, 12, 14, 17 (also in conflict with “go play solo”)
- you do not know D2/how to play → 1, 6, 7, 13, 17
- leechers will abuse it → 1,2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 11, 13
- i dont like changes → 1,2, 14
- you are too young/old → 6, 7, 13, 14
- i played for x hours for 20 years → defeats itself
- go play x → 1, 6, 7, 13, 14
- the devs said “remaster” → 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16
- the adrenaline rush is part of the game → 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 17
- in ffa games you have a higher sense of accomplishment (you click yourself) → 1,2, 3, 6, 7
- ploot is the easier way to get items → 1, 3, 4, 8
- go play with friends → 3, 4, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 18
- i will only get bad items → 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 11, 13
I surely missed some, so feel free to add to the list.
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Okay how to you calculate a leacher? Or the last person to hit the mob has no mf and you have 400? cause right now that’s how it works killing blow players mf determines the drops. Would they have to code it as if you are the one that always gets the killing blow? so many questions.
Hahahah made me laugh
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Do you agree that any claims on either side that change or affect parts of the game i.e. economy is still a unknown?
Yes we can agree on that
And if a change affects the economy is in a separate modern realm (for the better or worse), it has zero impact on a strict remaster realm that has its own economy.
I would argue that we do not change it.
So it would behave exactly as in a FFA loot game, just the dropped items get assigned to their players randomly. (over a longer time, everybody will get evened out loot (based on playtime and killspeed ofc)).
You could ofc argue that the looters mf should count. But that would be a gameplay mechanic change that would maybe be an incentive for players to change their equipment. Therefore i would keep it the same.
But maybe there are things in this discussion that i did not see yet.
Debunked lol, by people who are clearly bias. This isn’t POE kid
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Well we could also say that it’s unknown whether this will cause more disconnect issues as well, but it wouldn’t make sense without support to think so. I don’t see any dynamics that could influence economy. Other than perhaps less centralization of godly items with script users. I’m just the opposite of concerned with that effect though.
I don’t understand this. FFA loot is not “toxic” or even a big deal. You won’t get the perfect drop for your perfect build doing Baal runs for XP anyway. You’ll get those doing MF runs. Mods need to archive these threads and end this useless debate.
Ya see I am not against you I just know there are so many factors that are different in d2 and its an old engine they would have to change the game at its core to make that work and I don’t see that happening a month before release.
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Well all you have to do is counter argue what is being stated. The current situation rewards script using for getting the godly items out of public games. That’s the state if the game right now; completely unintended. You can continue to play it that way. This is only an option. Please explain why an option to limit hacking is a bad thing when you don’t even have to use it and it has no effect on you whatsoever?
Also you might be under the impression that what is being asked for is a Diablo 3 type instanced loot system. That is not at all what is being asked for and nobody here wants that implemented.
Tentatively.
I went into it a bit further already (in Zax’s thread, i think).
I would argue that the changes to the economy balance out.
- most likely some players who got less loot before will now get slightly more → but they are still the same amount of items
- they will most likely use them on their own chars → less items in trade, but also less demand
- they will also have more value to trade with → more items in trade, more buying power
- those who currently grab the most (bots, pickit, adrenaline players) have slightly less (if they play ploot) → less items in trade, less high end buying power
Maybe you can add a few more aspects, if you want. But to me it seems like pretty much a zero sum game with minor changes in both directions.
The main positive thing would be that more people would be able to trade more.
Debunk my debunks then. It is not a closing statement. Just saving the breath a bit on our side, since we now can just quote this post for convenience.
How about they focus the resources on stopping the hacking? d2 is old but Bnet is new and they can put up a dam good fight if they really want to.
Well as much as I would like that to be the case it’s just not the reality. Blizzard has not been willing to put forth the resources necessary to stop hacking on a large scale. Not even in wow classic. They won’t start doing it here now. This is a passive fix to the issue that will not make them spend the resources necessary to do what we all would like, preferably.
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