Forcing people to play your way

[blash-1917]

@ABKuyt-1432

when bob the barbarian who gets the killing blow on the boss only has 0 to50% mf.

How is that different from a FFA game where bob the barbarian gets the KB?
Why do you bring unrelated points into the field? Are you intentionally sabotaging your own argument?

[Kuraharo-2506]

Yup, he has not read anything here, or the other 100 different arguments why ploto will effect EVERYONE. And i bet most ppl including myself are tired of repeating ourselves day after day.

[Evil-2298]

Word! so frustrating xD

[AnxiousDavid-1818]

@Kuraharo-2506

Uhm, maybe by there being only tombruns for ploot at 6 AM but i wanna do FFA tombs? Im forced to your loot style.

people who do tombruns on personal loot most likely would not be doing tombruns on FFA all of a sudden if ploot doesn’t exist they will just play solo.

So if you hide ploot games your options would look the same either way at 6am.

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Kuraharo-2506

Uhm, maybe by there being only tombruns for ploot at 6 AM but i wanna do FFA tombs?

Again, this is only possible if sales/retention in D2R is a miserable failure. The nice thing is that with global servers it will be prime time for others to play so you have essentially nothing to worry about.

[blash-1917]

@Evil-2298

Are you f***ing serious? Have you read any post in this thread? You are obviously trolling or incredible stupid…

The problem is unfortunately that the anti-ploot crowd refused to read. All their arguments have already been debunked months ago. Nothing new to see here:

@blash-1917

Because there are things that D2 does better than PoE and things that PoE does better than D2.
If there is a way to bring a good system from PoE over to D2 without impacting D2 then there is no harm in it.

So far there have been only few common arguments against ploot that would make d2 worse. All have been more or less debunked.
First i will list the common arguments that debunk:

1. same item drops as in FFA mode (en par with 8 player pub)
2. FFA mode is still available
3. statistically loot is distributed in a fair way over the course of multiple games
4. Solo MF runs and FFA games are still more efficient ways to get loot
5. in FFA games you can see items, but do not necessarily get them
6. not everyone enjoys the “adrenaline game” of item grabbing
7. more accessable to new players
8. leechers get only 1/8 of the items, arguably less than in FFA
9. adding extra rules might prevent leeching (e.g. distance or damage)
10. timed loot could make loot accessable for everyone after a short time (e.g. 1-2 seconds)
11. prevents pick it as a nice side-effect
12. it allows to focus on other aspects of the game more (gameplay, social, etc.)
13. it does not have to be efficient
14. we are paying customers just like you
15. remaster does not have a clear definition
16. the devs asked for feedback / are open for QoL changes
17. some players are playing in an disadvantage (technical problems, social situation, health situation, etc.)
18. not everyone has a full list of friends available whenever they want to play

Counter arguments:

• destroys the economy → 1, 3, 4
• more efficient ways to play the game (e.g. Solo MF, private lobby) → 2, 4, 13
• you are destroying d2 → 1, 2, 6, 7, 13,
• you split the community → 6, 7, 12, 14, 17 (also in conflict with “go play solo”)
• you do not know D2/how to play → 1, 6, 7, 13, 17
• leechers will abuse it → 1,2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 11, 13
• i dont like changes → 1,2, 14
• you are too young/old → 6, 7, 13, 14
• i played for x hours for 20 years → defeats itself
• go play x → 1, 6, 7, 13, 14
• the devs said “remaster” → 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 14, 15, 16
• the adrenaline rush is part of the game → 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 17
• in ffa games you have a higher sense of accomplishment (you click yourself) → 1,2, 3, 6, 7
• ploot is the easier way to get items → 1, 3, 4, 8
• go play with friends → 3, 4, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 18
• i will only get bad items → 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 11, 13

I surely missed some, so feel free to add to the list.

@Evil-2298

Word! so frustrating xD

Yes! Word! Do your homework!

[Kuraharo-2506]

We know thats not true, you can only speak on your personal behalf.

[Shadout-2849]

@Cleaner-2415

Nope because in FFA you always have the possibility to grab that drop in ploot with auto allocation you dont , and thats why the idea is stupid

You are welcome to have such an opinion of course.

But when it comes the part about 3 items being split between 8 players, that is just how things factually are, in both FFA and Ploot.

@Kuraharo-2506

Lets say there is baalruns only on FFA, how will i as a plooter then have an “option” on the first place?

What if there are no people who ever reach Hell in D2R? Then you cant do any Baal runs at all?
Unreasonable examples are unreasonable.
It would never happen.

@Kuraharo-2506

Im gonna suffer from having less items on public games because all the slow clickers choose to play ploot so im competing against faster clickers on average?

Do you hate competition and just want things handed to you?
No different from these players going solo, or not playing at all either.

@Kuraharo-2506

Ploot generates less niche items (like good blue bases) because not everyone pick them up and those who want to pick them up, cant, even if theres timer on allocation, not many are gonna backtrack for super small chance to be good item.

Timers on blue items could be nothing, or short enough that you wont have to backtrack.

Besides, “item waste” (in terms of the market) is a thing in FFA too. Since you are rewarded for spam clicking drops, people who dont trade might pick up some of these items, and vendor them.

Anyway, we dont have to guess. Just add ploot to a test ladder for 3-6 months and see how it goes.

@ABKuyt-1432

With those things being a precious commodity a lot of us would rather they be focused on things more important to us like all the bugs that aren’t fixed etc.

Sure. Fix those bugs before adding Ploot.

@ABKuyt-1432

Public runs will still not be an optimal or good way of farming gear

It is not meant to. If it did, then it really would be a big game change. But it wont. Just a way to alter the MP experience a bit. Both Ploot and FFA would remain weak ways to get items.

@TanisGunthar-1764

While it’s a moot point at launch, THIS right here is the biggest unspoken complaint right here from anti-plooters. While some legitimately do want the competition, I feel a big segment against it are against it not because they want actual competition, but they want EASY competition vs slow clickers.

Yep.

@Kuraharo-2506

Uhm, maybe by there being only tombruns for ploot at 6 AM but i wanna do FFA tombs? Im forced to your loot style.

Unrealistic to happen. But start your own FFA tombs run, and people will join it, since there were no other games up.

What do you do today, if there are zero runs up?

[Kuraharo-2506]

“Debunked” by irrational denyalism

Self-proclaimed debunkgod 9000

[Malpka-2585]

What you dont seem to realise is that it is only Blizzard who can force you to play their way. Not one from the forum members can force you to anything. We simply arguing against something you asking for.

[Turlok-1680]

If you could share, you wouldn’t be a ploot advocate LOL

[Shadout-2849]

@Malpka-2585

What you dont seem to realise is that it is only Blizzard who can force you to play their way. Not one from the forum members can force you to anything. We simply arguing against something you asking for.

Exactly this.
Wish people would stop pulling the “omg stop changing things” etc. Only Blizzard can change things.

[blash-1917]

@Turlok-1680

If you could share, you wouldn’t be a ploot advocate LOL

False. It is literally the exact opposite. But nice try.

If you would be able to apply logic, you wouldnt be an anti-ploot advocate.
Back to you.

@Malpka-2585

We simply arguing against something you asking for.

“Arguing” would imply the usage of arguments over insults.

[killercat32-1655]

@Lumpus-1803

Let’s face it, the game will change more in the future and the people most likely to leave due to these changes are the very people telling others to leave if they don’t like it. Do we really want people like that dictating the state of the game. My only hope is the VV/Blizz is telling these “change haters” what they want to hear to sell the game and will add optional changes in the near future.

that’s exactly what they’re going to do LOL after the game releases and ppl are playing you wont be able to refund. because you got what you paid for.

[Jani-2764]

@Kuraharo-2506

“Debunked” by irrational denyalism

Self-proclaimed debunkgod 9000

Blash logic is basically you dont allowed to use your counter argument.

[AnxiousDavid-1818]

@Kuraharo-2506

We know thats not true, you can only speak on your personal behalf.

we don’t know that’s not true.

It is true i can only speak on the information i have and the fact is a lot of people advocating for ploot have stated they would play mostly in private games if no ploot.

On top of that if you are someone who wants to play with personal loot why would you choose to play in a public FFA game made specifically to fam loot?

[blash-1917]

@Evil-2298

Word! so frustrating xD

And as you can see, they are not even arguing on the points. Even when giving a golden ticket to bring the discussion back to the arguments.

~20 arguments on the table. They chose insult over arguments.
I hope you realize where the problem sits right now.

[Gulgir-2215]

@MicroRNA-1507

What? How does offering an option force you to choose that option?

To answer that question it will surely take some testing to see the outcome. Adding the option to change the ruleset of loot allocation will make one option more superior than the other depending on what the player wants to do / achieve. If the player wants the safer way to get loot then they’d prefer ploot, although its still not guaranteed that you get loot. You eliminate the control of the players to obtain any amount of loot.
If it would be about adding an option where the amount of consoles or PC specs is increased then it would certainly be a no brainer because the gameplay is unaffected.

Are you willing to take the risk that ploot will replace FFA eventually, even though that this is not your intention right now?

[Kuraharo-2506]

Simple question, what would be the case if there was 1 tombrun game total, between FFA and Ploot?

Your dismissed

[Evil-2298]

@blash-1917

And as you can see, they are not even arguing on the points. Even when giving a golden ticket to bring the discussion back to the arguments.

~20 arguments on the table. They chose insult over arguments.
I hope you realize where the problem sits right now.

Bro feel free to ignore me. I prefer it anyway. Other guys just destroyed any “pro” of your desired ploot with understandable arguments and you keep pretending they never said anything… Bye sir.