Raiding drop - a week or two (to get one of the several ranged weapons possible)
Arena - Probably a season or two, Unless you are in the 95 percentile, then you can get it after a month of sustained play.
~1800 team in TBC is the top 5%. Basically you are saying that if you were in the top 5% of all PvEers raiding and raided each lockout at that performance level for four weeks straight, the weapon would be considered “mindless”.
Honestly…
For T4 equivalent weapons the rating should be 0. It already requires months playing in the top 35% just to even get which is already more effort than content clearable by all guilds and is puggable easy.
Season 1 - 0 rating
Season 2 - 1600 rating
Season 3 - 1800 rating
Season 4 - 2000 rating
The rating should reflect a rough estimate of how many guilds that raid will complete the current season content.
You don’t even understand how high 2050 was in TBC. This was the top 0.5% to 3% depending on the bracket. I definitely remember 2050 5v5 being really high gladiator in season 1 and 2.
We honestly don’t know this yet. The MMR algorithm being used for TBC is the same as retail, so is the API. There will be a large influx of participation, especially right after launch, and I expect 1800 or so to be a pretty trash-tier rating. Like trade chat pugs running at healers sort of rating. If 2050 ends up being Gladiator level then your fears about the requirement being too harsh will be confirmed. I expect a 2700 or so rating to be gladiator and 3k rating to be Rank 1. Neither of us can say for sure, we haven’t seen the brackets yet.
Have you even been 2k+ on live right now? It’s a disaster.
This is what they’re bringing to TBC except the PVE content is so hilariously easy that arena will be dead on arrival.
Not in Shadowlands, no. I stopped playing Retail arena after Legion. It’s just terrible. I’ve been playing Pserver arena for about 10 years though - AT then Warmane then Endless. I’ll go and redact those names later because Blizzard doesn’t like them being posted even though 2 of those 3 have been gone for a long time.
By retail you mean the MMR algorithm and API that has… https://luduslabs.org/sotl/second-month-of-shadowlands
90% percentile of 1688
70% percentile of 1481
Average rating of 1368
Oh yes indeed, even if rating requirements were removed, Gladiators would have a difficult time getting their PvP items via the weekly point gains.
This is the problem.
Meanwhile in reality we might have Gladiators who will not be able to achieve their Weapon rating…
Shadowlands has zero participation. Of course 90% of people are below 1700. No one plays. At the end of Season 8 there were over 1 MILLION accounts above 1000 rating in any arena bracket. The first Season of BFA there were only 44,000 accounts above 1000 rating (we have this data because R1 gladiator numbers are percentile and we know exactly how many R1 titles went out).
That’s a 98.6% drop in arena participation in 10 years.
I genuinely believe that TBC arenas, especially at first, will have pretty good participation. Especially if you compare the overall number of TBC players [X] to the number of accounts above 1000 rating [Y]. TBC’s Y/X will probably be significantly higher than Shadowland’s Y/X which is like 0.0001%
You clearly don’t know how percentages work. Also there were less people playing in Pandaria and Legion versus TBC and WotLK yet there was a massive difference in ratings.
There are more geared people in classic than I have ever seen in wow in my life. I remember back in the day looking around and seeing a geared out toon and it was kind of an “in awe” thing. Now with massive botting/ gold selling and buying and GDKPs gear is way way way way easier to come by in pve than pvp.
Classic is the proof. PVE gearing can be done by a toddler in classic and will be the same in TBC.
See what this man is saying. Pve is laughable now days.
Shadowlands pvp is literally dead. Like nobody in LFG notta, dead.
Correct. That’s why 90% of people are below 1700 rating. The other poster is saying TBC will be the same way. I disagree. I expect TBC arena participation to be worlds ahead of Shadowlands, and thus 1700 rating won’t be literal gladiator level.
Listen, you guys are dogpiling on me for defending this. I get that I am on the unpopular side of this argument. People want their welfare epics as easy as they can get them. I understand that. I’m just trying to see Blizzard’s perspective here. Unlike most of you, I CAN understand why they are making this change. I AGREE that 2050 is probably too high. I’m worried that a solid 30-40% of the bottom of the MMR pyramid will say “no thanks” to arena all together with a requirement that high, causing a negative feedback loop that makes the 2050 even HARDER to get (like Shadowlands).
We’ll see how it shakes out. But I think you guys need to broaden your perspectives.
But in reality PvP arena gear was way harder to get in original tbc compared to PvE gear and in Classic even if the ratings were removed, it would be even EASIER to get PvE gear over PvP arena gear.
You are being a contrarian and one with an uninformed arena history knowledge.
Wrong. This change was a mistake that people used from the Season 3 change that they wanted to apply to Season 1.
Here’s some education on why “Welfare Epics” concept started in Season 2…
T5 content came out in Season 2.
People stockpiled arena points in Season 1 because season 1 gear was garbage, people who did this bought T5 equivalent gear in Season 2 immediately.
Badge gear essentially rewarded a heroics effort with badges that could buy t5 equivalent gear.
These two things happening at the same time caused PvEers to throw a fit.
Oof. I was here in TBC. I’ve been here the whole time. I remember when they added the rating requirements in S3. I remember when they added the badge vendors. I remember when they added the badge vendor on Isle of Quel’Danas and it killed my carry business. I am not mis-remembering the history.
YOU’RE overreacting (potentially) to this rather predictable change. Blizzard thought it was a mistake not having ratings in S1 and S2. They added them in S3 as soon as they realized they messed up. It makes sense that 12 years later, remaking the game, they correct their initial error from the get-go. I am not surprised by this change at all. It’s not a “sky is falling” scenario and after S1/T4 won’t even be a discussion at all.
IF… if… 2050 ends up being 99th percentile rating then yeah, absolutely, Blizzard will need to change something. I don’t think their intention is to lock 99% out of weapons and shoulders. They seem to believe, the same that I do, that 1700-1800 will be trash, trade-chat ratings where double melee without voice chat run at healers and win matches and that pretty much everyone, with enough effort, will get their weapon. I doubt they’ll leave the required rating at 2050 if 90% of people are below 1600. Hell, they might revert this change and take away the ratings all together if participation is SO low that they end up unreachable.
Your “nightmare” scenario would be rectified swiftly. In all likelihood it will not even come to pass. Either way, I’d prefer is they set it at 1850 for weapons anyway.
No we want pvp on an even level playing field. I don’t want to be full purples pub stomping kids that can’t and will never hit 2050 at least allow them to gear up and have a chance.
Skill>gear
Don’t make the gear unobtainable by the vast majority
We ALREADY know this is going to effect arena #'s as there are literal discoords with thousands of people talking about it.
The problem is blizzard DOES NOT react and make NEEDED changes quickly if AT ALL.
See Spell batching in classic… 99% of people knew batching was atrocious. BETA testers agreed and spoke out about this. THEY FIXED THIS THE MONTH CLASSIC IS ENDING>
See leeway that we still have. Disgusting
See my point? IF they NEED to make the change at that time THEY WILL NOT as history has shown us over and over and over.
In all fairness blizzard is clearly more willing to make changes for TBC Classic and so far most of them have been positive. The arena changes are the only questionable thing and that’s only in the details, the rating reqs probably are a little high.
I’ve posted extensively on the negative feedback loop that rating requirements will inflict on the MMR pyramid. A health pyramid needs a wide base, a wide foundation. You NEED all of those absolutely atrocious players at the bottom. You need the keyboard turning clickers in the 1500s. It’s necessary. Without them the entire pyramid collapses down by that same amount. If the real mouth-breathing players look at a 2050 requirement for a weapon and go “screw that, I’m out”, that collapses the pyramid. If 40% of the prospective participants bail because they believe the reward is unobtainable, the entire bracket collapses on itself. This forces the previous 2050 players down to 1600 and, again, makes the reward unobtainable for THEM, too. Now another 30% of the bottom of the pyramid leaves. Eventually, you end up with the retail problem of 1700 being gladiator level.
This is why I believe it is imperative that the requirements for the weapons at least appear to be within reach of the average moron. The carrot needs to be grazing the lips of the horses or else why bother? If you hang the carrot so far away they can barely see it, they won’t even try. 2050 is probably a-carrot-too-far.
What this man is saying is exactly correct. No one keyboard turns anymore, over the course of 16 years you think people still keyboard turn?! In arenas?!
That pyramid is how life will be. There were VERY few people in tbc with arena weapons… I recall maybe like 10 people on the entire server with arena weapons and my server was full. 1800 is going to be harder than ever to get…
The drum change thing that was supposed to be a fix but wasn’t a fix? what changes are you talking about?
The boosting?
Agree with all but this. I honestly don’t believe that there are many players clicking in pvp now days. When you do a little research about pvp and what to do to get started 100% key binding is the very first thing your’e told. I understand what you’re saying though and you’re right.
If retail PVP participation is low, TBC participation will be even lower. Finding teams for PUGs is going to be a pain. You need a charter, need to pay, new team rating resets to zero, no LFG UI, and no cross-realm (you can only play on teams from your own server).