RIP TBC Arena

[Cauchy-heartseeker]

Keep thinking that.

[Thrassis-pagle]

Yeah Im not ready for you at all…

[Testoraeu-aggramar (Testoraeu)]

I always felt TBC Arena was the worst feature of the game. But once again, I am proven wrong as obviously some of you truly liked it.

[Cauchy-heartseeker]

It was the feature i participated in the least then. Things might be different this time around.

[Crankfuse-netherwind]

@Pwnytailz-fairbanks

It’s not just rating. It’s teams, new teams starting at zero, no cross-realm, no LFG. Gear ratings are another barrier for entry.

“No cross-realm”

Got a source on this? Everywhere I’ve looked says that battlegroups (i.e. crossrealm region-specific ladders) will exist from the start for TBC arena.

[Xavasius-sulfuras]

He means no cross realm teams. You are stuck with your own realm’s pool for potential partners.

[Crankfuse-netherwind]

Derp, ty for clarifying that. I guess that sucks for small pop realms…

[Warruz-sulfuras]

Seems silly to apply this rating requirement to the first season, this should be providing baseline gear/progression for further seasons to come and an opportunity to new people to participate in PVP.

[Pwnytailz-fairbanks]

@Smokepurpx-blackrock

So now we’re talking about a problem specific to playing an off meta spec on a dead server? Okay, lol.

So the Arena system should ignore non meta comps (which is over 50% of the players) and low pop servers and just cater to the meta comps and high pop servers. Great game design, lol.

[Resilientt-hydraxis]

What? arena has always had meta comps and i dont want cross realm in tbc, it ruined the community on servers. Either transfer or quit if you don’t like your server.

[Smokepurpx-blackrock]

@Pwnytailz-fairbanks

So the Arena system should ignore non meta comps (which is over 50% of the players) and low pop servers and just cater to the meta comps and high pop servers

Meta comps have always and will always be a thing. What change to the system would you suggest to help non-meta classes, really? And just for the record – I play a shadow priest on a medium pop server. I’m not some mage on Faerlina or something.

People will play off-meta specs because they want to. There’s nothing Blizzard can/will do to incentivize people playing with a spec that is objectively worse than it’s counterparts. What exactly would you suggest?

[Pwnytailz-fairbanks]

@Smokepurpx-blackrock

People will play off-meta specs because they want to. There’s nothing Blizzard can/will do to incentivize people playing with a spec that is objectively worse than it’s counterparts. What exactly would you suggest?

I’m not asking class changes be made to boost non-meta classes. My point is that the changes to the PVP system from original TBC hurt non-meta classes and low pop servers than they did in the original TBC and basically kill Arena.

To fix the disproportionate problems the changes cause to non-metas and low-pop servers, Blizz should:

1. Use the retail system; OR
2. Use the original TBC system without changes; OR
3. Allow cross-realm teams;
4. Don’t reset rating to 0, keep it at 1500 or maybe 1200-1300;

The player base of original TBC was likely 7 to 10 times bigger than the TBC: C population will be.

Blizz ultimately jettisoned the team system, implementing personal AND cross-realm group when the player base was 3-5 times bigger than it will be for TBC: C.

If server-only teams didn’t work with strict gear gating in MoP, it has no chance to work in TBC: C.

[Gankzilla-thunderfury]

@Stonecastle-herod

@Bearyalln-tichondrius

The ideal option would be tweaking their power level

Right. The problem is this intersection:

1. S1 Gladiator Weapons are SUPER strong
2. S1 Gladiator Weapons are guaranteed
3. S1 Gladiator Weapons require fairly little effort

Raid weapons are #1 and #3 but definitely not #2. Crafted weapons are #1 and #2 but definitely not #3. So Blizzard had to change ONE of those three for the arena weapons. They decided to change #3 and make them require 2050 rating. They’re still very strong. They’re still guaranteed. They’re just now slightly more difficult to get (if TBC ratings reflect traditional retail ratings, 2050 rating is the top 6% of teams - quite out of reach for most people).

They could have changed #1 and nerfed the weapons into the ground and then never added a rating to them. They could have changed #2 and made them a very rare drop rate out of an “arena loot box” or something. I think, given the options, changing #3 was the best of the bunch.

Ofc, a lot of people will still argue “they shouldn’t have changed it at all!” but clearly Blizzard is changing things this time around (drums, Seal of Blood etc) that they think will coax the experience into a better one. Clearly, Blizzard realized they made a tremendous mistake in original TBC by not locking these powerful weapons behind a rating requirement - a mistake they swiftly correct in Season 3 of the expansion. It makes sense they want to correct this mistake from the beginning this time around, no?

WHO CAREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

PVE is already potato level easy anyways. They should have followed original tbc OR made the requirement something like 1750 which most pve only kids can’t hit anyways.

[Stonecastle-herod]

@Gankzilla-thunderfury

WHO CAREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

Blizzard, apparently.

[Gankzilla-thunderfury]

@Pwnytailz-fairbanks

@Smokepurpx-blackrock

People will play off-meta specs because they want to. There’s nothing Blizzard can/will do to incentivize people playing with a spec that is objectively worse than it’s counterparts. What exactly would you suggest?

I’m not asking class changes be made to boost non-meta classes. My point is that the changes to the PVP system from original TBC hurt non-meta classes and low pop servers than they did in the original TBC and basically kill Arena.

To fix the disproportionate problems the changes cause to non-metas and low-pop servers, Blizz should:

1. Use the retail system; OR
2. Use the original TBC system without changes; OR
3. Allow cross-realm teams;
4. Don’t reset rating to 0, keep it at 1500 or maybe 1200-1300;

The player base of original TBC was likely 7 to 10 times bigger than the TBC: C population will be.

Blizz ultimately jettisoned the team system, implementing personal AND cross-realm group when the player base was 3-5 times bigger than it will be for TBC: C.

If server-only teams didn’t work with strict gear gating in MoP, it has no chance to work in TBC: C.

They’re not capable of making a SINGLE change to pvp that makes ANY sense whatsoever now days. They have a plethora of posts laid out by intelligent pvp guys and they keep making awful changes in retail and NOW were getting those same face palm worthy changes for TBC.

[Tylaw-faerlina]

So basically, they want only the top 100 players to have weapons so they can run around bgs and 2 shot everyone.

[Zinqf-herod]

@Stonecastle-herod

S1 Gladiator Weapons are SUPER strong

Wrong. For PvP almost every class and spec has a much easier to get weapon that’s far superior to the S1 weapon. Additionally, this only stops becoming a problem completely in Season 3 where the PvP weapons are actually really good. At that point there’s a rating required.

@Stonecastle-herod

S1 Gladiator Weapons are guaranteed

No they aren’t. You need to acquire and sustain at least a 1500 rating for the entire arena season just to get a 2 hander or ranged weapon. At that point its best to just hold off till season 2 and blow it then.

@Stonecastle-herod

S1 Gladiator Weapons require fairly little effort

Way more people cleared T4 content than sustained 1500+ rating in any bracket long enough to get a weapon. A case could be made for Arena weapons with no rating requiring far more effort than anything T4 or heroics related at all effort wise. And time-wise? Well it takes so much time that you’ll just pick up upgrades weeks or months before you get the points and just stockpile till the next season.

@Stonecastle-herod

Raid weapons are #1 and #3 but definitely not #2.

I think way too much emphasis is placed on this when it actually makes zero sense as #1 and #3 are the true metrics here and determine what #2 will actually be.

@Stonecastle-herod

They could have changed #1 and nerfed the weapons into the ground and then never added a rating to them. They could have changed #2 and made them a very rare drop rate out of an “arena loot box” or something. I think, given the options, changing #3 was the best of the bunch.

Literally every single drooling mouthbreather keeps regurgitating the same honor based argument like arena points are something you instantly gain when you finish a battle and can just obtain the item overnight.

TBC arena doesn’t work this way. Heck WotLK arena doesn’t work this way.

@Stonecastle-herod

They decided to change #3 and make them require 2050 rating. They’re still very strong. They’re still guaranteed.

Using this logic raiding gear is far more guaranteed than PvP gear will ever be.

@Stonecastle-herod

They’re just now slightly more difficult to get (if TBC ratings reflect traditional retail ratings, 2050 rating is the top 6% of teams

6% of TBC teams weren’t 2050. The number is actually lower than % of guilds with Sunwell on Farm.

[Stonecastle-herod]

@Zinqf-herod

Wrong. For PvP almost every class and spec has a much easier to get weapon that’s far superior to the S1 weapon.

You open with literally two, back to back incorrect statements. Why even read the rest? Disagree and move on.

[Zinqf-herod]

@Stonecastle-herod

You open with literally two, back to back incorrect statements.

Did you even compare the S1 weapons to literally the entry level crafting options and Karazhan loot table? This isn’t a subjective thing you get to think is wrong. It’s reality for almost every spec of every class.

It’s possible that a slow offhand is possible the only niche not covered extensively in S1 that is covered by the loot table and is probably the only reason you are even in this thread spouting completely false, uninformed information.

[Stonecastle-herod]

@Zinqf-herod

Did you even compare the S1 weapons to literally the entry level crafting options and Karazhan loot table?

Yes. I have made several comparisons to the Gladiator Bow vs. Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix from Karazhan. They’re within 0.5 DPS of each other and have ~equivalent attack power. Obviously the Glad bow has a little resilience and the Sunfury doesn’t but with simming they’d almost assuredly be within 1% of one another. Except one you can get in 4 weeks of mindless, trade chat arena capping (presuming ~900 points a week with an ~1800 team) and the other requires a weekly 3-hour raid with a 6% drop rate from the final boss that, statistically, you won’t see drop for 4 months.

The rest of the gear is utterly irrelevant but the weapons should have a rating requirement for sure. 2050 is probably too high, especially considering the negative feedback loop of rating requirements forcing out the bottom ~40% of the MMR pyramid making 2050 that much more out of reach. Either way, the requirements are an elegant solution to a complicated problem - a problem that Blizzard realized halfway through TBC and rectified with… rating requirements.