I jive with this, truly. Brennadam being a prime example which is total crap.
Again, I agree with this. But I think that comes from a position of having had that attention for so long (and please don’t take that as an insult, it is absolutely not).
If the Alliance got to be villain batted, I’m pretty sure Alliance players would be cheering. For Alliance, even bad attention is attention, and it’s sorely needed.
Yup.
Exactly, people here think that i personally hate horde players because they choosed red, that isn’t true.
What i want is to punish the horde as a story faction for their atrocities on innocents and since we can’t separate the horde as a story faction from the players well, we are between a rock and a hard place then.
and yet i am told that i just forget about it, hm i don’t know, that is easy when it didn’t happened to your faction, if people are still angry about camp taco and the purge, imagine if the alliance actually commited an actual atrocitity theramore or teldrassil level.
If you’re not willing to allow the massive amount of attention, resources, and effort it would take to rebuild the Horde faction after you got what you want as revenge, then you don’t deserve to get that revenge. Its as simple as that.
If you want to do more damage to the Horde, then the amount of time and assets needed to repair that damage will increase. Our Faction Identity is already in shambles. Several of our Racial Fantasies are extremely damaged. Our character roster is a joke of underused, underdeveloped, and underpowered reps. The only race on the Alliance that suffered a similar level of destruction, and thus need the same TLC, is the NEs; and even they are not trying to fill the void of 15 years worth of characters being slowly stripped away without replacements built like the Horde is now.
If you want your revenge/justice, then you need to be willing to accept the cost for that; which would effectively result in another “Horde Expansion”. To accept both, you are punishing the faction, but not the players; because you promise them a continuation of their Factions stories. If you desire the first, but deny the the second … well then you are punishing the Faction and the Players; because your essentially asking the Horde Faction gets sterilized for future stories for your satisfaction. Which … lets be honest … some Alliance players would be OK with.
I felt the same way. It was bad enough to get a completely gratuitous depiction of the Horde as sadistic butchers, but on top of that it didn’t even make much sense.
Scenario 1: Stormsong’s army is away and only defenseless civilians remain. So the quillboar take the opportunity to raid an unguarded town that borders their land and that might have been built on land they inhabited before the humans settled it.
Believable.
Scenario 2: Stormsong’s army is away and only defenseless civilians remain. So the Horde commits an army with a fleet of small zeppelin bombers, paratroopers, a giant azerite tank, and scores of siege towers and demolishers to attack an open unguarded town with no walls.
???
I think it was done better in Cata/MOP cause Garrosh at least provoke the other Horde Races as a whole with things he did. That did not happen with BFA with what we saw that with how some the Rebel Forces were overall. That being said the Rebel Horde aka Honor Horde were such a minor force that they had to ask for even more help from the Alliance which had the leader of the Rebels let out of his cell and with some help from SI7 get him out of Alliance lands.
Do you realize why comments like this don’t help, even when accompanied by a cute emoticon?
Not only did they do much more laying of the groundwork for Garrosh to go off the rails, it was also the first time they told that story, so people were willing to go along with the ride. Even then, I think most people found the conclusion of MoP to be unsatisfying.
BfA is the second go-round of the same plot, and pretty much anyone capable of critical thinking saw all this coming from a mile away, including the disappointing conclusion. That Blizzard deviated from the plot only in superficial ways heightens the sense of grievance - we’ve been there before, done it before, and didn’t like it the first time, so what in the world made them think that we would like it a second time, and written worse to boot?
i am actually willing to give them all the attention they may want, as far as possible from alliance narrative, i believe that a triple A company can and should be able to do it to both sides.
we give them money for it, both of us. so why not put that money into actual use?
the answer that i can think of is that they simply don’t care about the story, the majority of people cares much more about gameplay.
No, see that’s where your argument falls flat. The Alliance doesn’t need the attention the Horde would require if you got the vengeance you apparently seek. The only Alliance race that really lost anything in BfA was the NEs; and even they walk out of this with the majority of their racial fantasy intact, and all of their characters of note. For the most part, outside of the NEs, the Alliance would “just” be rebuilding territories. This is far cry from recreating from the very foundation 15 years worth of lost characters; faction identity; and racial fantasies that already remains questionable whether or not we’ll see from our current mutilated state.
I’m not saying that the Alliance shouldn’t get attention and love for future stories; but the Blue Team would not require even close to the same attention to a Horde that was brought so close to being raised to ground zero would. Building up a Faction from a low point, and essentially building an entire replacement faction from scratch to replace the one you broke … take two different scales of work and attention.
I agree with this, but at the same time, complete dissociation is not really desirable. If you’re completely dissociated, why play the game at all?
Yet, what you really seem to mean here is “Horde players are unreasonable for associating themselves with their faction.” More on that below.
I totally get this, and I think Blizzard did an awful thing to you by having that happen.
You make a passionate plea for the Horde player to realize just how deeply the Alliance player identifies with and cherishes the Alliance and its characters, and how keenly the Alliance player feels any loss the Alliance experiences. But don’t you understand that this cuts both ways? You seem completely deaf to the idea that Horde players might feel the same about the Horde, and that they might experience the kind of payback you want as personally being shamed and defeated. You expect Horde players to detatch from their faction (in order to swallow the Horde’s punishment) in a way you are unwilling to do from yours.
Alliance players keep saying, over and over, that they don’t want to punish Horde players–and I should state, for the record, that I really appreciate this. But no one has yet been able to suggest a suitable punishment for the Horde faction that would satisfy Alliance players and not feel like a punishment to Horde players. I’m not sure it can be done, because we do identify with our factions and experience what they experience.
Just out of curiosity, let’s say the Horde faces some of the punishments you ask for later in your post–“reparations or loss of territory.” How do you imagine Horde players will feel about this? Loss of territory is especially tricky because it actually benefits one side’s players at the expense of the other. Do you really imagine that the pleasure you’d feel from, say, seeing Warsong Lumber Camp in ruins every time you go to Ashenvale would be mirrored by Horde players seeing the same thing, shrugging, and saying, “That’s fair–the Alliance deserves this”?
Agreed.
Blizz has been doing odd stuff with the Horde for awhile now. Granted I haven’t really dived deep into WoD content or lore so correct me if I’m wrong here but I thought Orcs were supposed to be basically decent before the demonic corruption.
Maybe a little more rough and tumble than humans given the more hostile nature of their planet but on the whole alright. Like the Mag’Har in Outland who while certainly suspicious of outsiders aren’t innately hostile and seem pretty chill on the whole.
But then we see AU Draenor and they’re crazier than their Green cousins. Geya’rah is 200% down for Windy’s antics.
I think over the past few expansions they got to the point where there’s no one unifying vision holding everything together, and the writing room has become a tug-of-war of different writers’ egos and what they think the story should be.
It’s for the usual reason.
She’s RIPPED OPEN THE BLOODY SKY has literally shattered the barrier between life and death and declared herself a threat to everything that lives.
In other words, Blizzard has fallen back to it’s usual rut of presenting a BIG BIG BAD or bads that …drumbeat here… “Both factions must set aside their differences to focus on the common threat.”
There’s also the bloody fact that the Alliance is in no shape to even threathen to “dismantle the Horde”… again. Now that the Horde is no longer split between Sylvanna loyalists and rebels.
This seems to be the big reason they’re defaulting on. Anduin’s passivism really is more of a political saving face move than anything else. With Saurfang’s gambit working, and the Horde not slaughtering itself to infighting … the way BfA portrays the current world situation is that while the Alliance could probably still wipe out the Horde; it would come at absolutely catastrophic cost to them. I do think they could win, but the Alliance may not survive the process intact.
Very … risking mutually assured destruction for revenge sort of thing.
For context, you initially responded to my post that was a call back to a conversation had in another thread:
This is the slippery slope I was referring to.
Which was the point of my concluding paragraph.
Well, i could ask in return: How do you think how Alliance players felt since Cataclysm where we were shown mostly - if not only - defeats, having our majors victories off-screen and being powerless to see the loss of so much territories without having any payoff?
Why asking to return some of them would be unacceptable for the Horde players since the Alliance never got any payoff?
it could have been true, if we knew the TRUE state of both side:
The Alliance was basically nerf to death for storyline purpose.
It has a certain weapon called “Vindicaar” which was absent since the beginning.
The Alliance has probably many weapons - maybe even mass destruction ones - but they were never shown while the Horde has the Blight.
It’s impossible right now to tell if the Alliance can wype out the Horde or not.
Truth to be told, it’s not exactly Saurfang’s gambit but rather Anduin’s gambit when he released Saurfang.
Now that i think about it, the Horde players can’t even say that was a Horde rebellion as it was Anduin - and so the Alliance - who “pushed the button”, perfectly knowing what he was doing.
It make the story even worse for a Horde player if we put it that way.
At the end, Blizzard told us a story we never wanted to see again as we all knew how it will end.
And as expected, the result is not satisfying for both side.
Both Theramore and the Dalaran Purge are kinda non issues. Coming into Legion having not played since Wrath I didn’t know they were things playing through the game till I heard them referenced by other players.
Theramore’s still intact. I don’t know what quest I’ve to do to blow it up. I’m about to get my 6th character to 120 and I’ve never found the questline that involves it. And as for Dalaran it’s never like you’re prevented from going there on a Horde toon. How would you figure out there was some sorta purge?
Say what you will of BFA but I think at least Teldrassil and Lordaeron will be noticeable.
On the Alliance side, i had to go to the Lorewalkers and play the scenario regarding the destruction of Theramore to actually being able to see it destroyed.
For the purge, i had to the Operation: Shieldwall questline to see it
I guess it’s the same on the Horde side.
No questline to be found. It was a Mists of Pandaria scenario that you have to play, then Theramore will show up destroyed on the overworld.
Now imagine being an Alliance player going from WoT/Teldrassil and then picking Stormsong Valley as your first zone and hitting Brennadam when it is first available before finishing the Lord Stormsong quest chain.
The Quest shows up on the mini-map and the cinematic start automatically when you get close to the bridge.
With Stormsong being the breadcrumb quest to find the missing fleet it wouldn’t have been that hard to be that unlucky.
Also Stormsong Valley is a hodge-podge of stuff. You jump from one thing to another. Spiders, Lizards, Yetis, and Giants are all running a muck. Pirates and buried treasure. Lord Stormsong and his tentacle fetish. A crazy fool experimenting on Giant Bees. Naga attack on the coastal fortress. Goblins polluting and the Tortollans. And a creepy ghost town tucked into a corner of the map. And repelling the Brennadam invasion and clearing out the horde fortress (which either boots the horde out or the horde just move back in and repair the fortress).