I actually wasn’t sure if it was MoP or Cata. It’s an event new and returning players are likely to never encounter and the only reference to it I noticed was in BFA with Jania. She meets Baine outside the ruins of Theramore and the Belf Magister that attacks her in Orgrimmar invokes the Purge.
So you’ll be confused at most about a cutscene setting and line of dialogue if you miss out on these events.
Tht’s one thing I hope might work in the levelling revamp - let the past-expansion-cap storylines work as normal levelling questlines, so new players have a chance to see them as they explore the world.
And now I wonder about this new “level 1-5(?)” island - will the NPCs there reference big moments of Azeroth history so new players get a sense of it, or even just get an idea of what time/expansion to level in to learn about it? Or will it be just as information-less and confusing as the current random time jumps?
It was available to do during the MoP pre-patch event then later as a level 90 scenario.
I’ve already said that I understand why Alliance players feel that way and that I think Blizzard has treated you badly.
First, I picked Ashenvale specifically because it’s been a contested zone since Vanilla.
But second and more importantly, the fact that you’re asking this suggests to me that you’ve missed the point of what I was saying.
That new leveling zone ranges from 1-10 and i believe it is set just before BFA as new players move to BFA after they finish that zone. If you level up an alt, you have a choice of doing that new leveling zone or head over to your races respective one. Alts can also choose which expansion they want to level from 10-50 in.
My guess it will probably have a few throw away references to past events (classic to Legion)
For gameplay reasons the answer HAS to be no.
That might be interesting to see. The one expansion setting I can see to be quite interesting to see how blizzard handles it is Cata, as there were only 5 leveling zones in that expansion, and 2 of them had the same level range at the time
Hyjal & Vashj’ir (80-82)
Deepholm (82-83)
Uldum (83-84)
Twilight Highlands (84-85)
There also wasn’t really that many max level story lines during Cata. You had the molten front intro stuff that stops when you have to do dailies. Tol Barad was nothing but dailies. You had the quest chain in Strangethorn vale which led to the revamped Zul’Gurub where you chase down the Darkspear spokesman (Vol’jin) warning both horde and alliance about the Zandalari. 4.3 didn’t really have a quest chain tided to it except for the one that takes you throughout the Hour of Twilight dungeons.
Every other expansion either had tons of leveling zones or tons of max level quests.
Hm. If these references were designed to give a new player an idea of what the big events in the story of WoW were, what do you think would be referenced?
Probably the big expansion events: the time the Legion came back, the time we went after Arthas, the time the world broke, the time we found this new continent with monks and beer and Garrosh went insane, the time we don’t talk about, the time the Legion came back -again- (oh and the planet got stabbed), and that time we had a totally justified war that hasn’t made everything worse.
But what else should new players be told about? What are historical events that are noteworthy enough that new players should be taught to recognize?
My list (off the top of my head)
I find it kinda interesting that most of the still-relevant events I can think of have to do with faction war. Most of the world-shaping events seem to have occurred before WoW, and even the big scary expansion bosses seem to be contained to just their expac. Sargeras’ sword is probably a sign they’re trying to have NPC plots leave a lasting impact, which is good compared to letting only faction grievances pile up.
I agree with your first part. But the second part - this part I quoted… I only play to RP anymore, and in that RP I ignore 99% of the crap from BFA. Not lore breaking, just blissful ignorance. Doing other stories. Better stories.
I’m not deaf to it; I absolutely hear and feel it. I’ve played Horde for years, and I loved so many of those characters, even if I didn’t necessarily jive with their aesthetic as much as I do the Alliance’s.
You can interchange Horde/Alliance in that paragraph you quoted here, and it does work both ways; I’m not, even for a moment, insinuating that it’s a one way street.
I don’t, and I also never once in my posts referred to myself as Alliance; I’m trying to be as neutral here as I can. No player should have to detach from their faction, but both sets of players are being forced to anyways.
I actually have put out a few ideas on this, and I do think it can be done; it just takes a development team that values story as much as it does non-competitive content. We need more story with the content, not just new raids and such that have lore shoehorned or twisted to fit it.
So, long response here - bear with me.
One of the things that’s so critical to this game is the faction exclusive story element. We had two separate story experiences: Horde and Alliance. Each gets to do their own thing; unique victories, unique defeats, and they go largely unseen by the other faction. Problematic, but also interesting.
This was a problem in BFA specifically, for sure, but it can also be a solution. Don’t want Faction A players to suffer the cost of reparations because it’s humiliating? Make it so that only Faction B witnesses it. I’m not saying that players shouldn’t know about it, but that they shouldn’t be forced to endure the worst parts of something.
For example:
There could be a series of quests where Alliance and Horde players both are tasked with helping to negotiate new terms for Ashenvale. We get quests where we have to help persuade our commanders to accept certain terms; we get a classic sit down between two lesser leaders who hammer out the details.
Then, the group that “loses” Location A, gets to go to Location B (in a different area) that they gained in this same negotiation. Then, each faction gets unique quests in which they reinforce/build up their newly gained/regained territory. This set of quests would involve ‘removing’ the enemy forces (peaceably, or maybe with some force), but it would be NPCs.
This way, yes - you lose territory on both sides while gaining other areas, but you don’t have to endure sitting through a defeat; instead, you’re engaging with the positive side of things.
Every situation doesn’t have to be a losing moment; it all depends on how it’s presented and spun.
The other important thing to note is that, supposedly, this faction crisis is over for good. That needs to be reflected.
What about turning conquered outposts into neutral spots where we see both factions staffing troops, and actually coordinating. There can be tension, sure, but giving us dialogue and events and quests that highlight that we’re moving on (albeit with distrust and grief) is really important.
Blizzard is notorious for ignoring the impact/shock/aftermath of events.
They go HUGE CLIMAX MOMENT>Onto the next HUGE CLIMAX MOMENT.
What we really need is to have HUGE CLIMAX MOMENT>observe the impact and allow us to digest and reflect>rising tension>HUGE CLIMAX MOMENT>repeat.
It’s like, in narratives - you never kill off the mentor character at the end of the story. Why? Because the protagonist needs time to absorb the impact of that, react, and grow from it.
With Teldrassil, we never ever got the shock/aftermath - it went right into the expansion and entirely ignored Teldrassil until Darkshore came out. We absolutely need small bits of follow up.
This would be best done in a world revamp (another issue entirely, I know).
This.
It matters not if “Daelin was right about the orcs” if his methods were utterly evil. Not to mention he wasn’t right, as without the horde, the legion or old gods would have destroyed Azeroth by now. The alliance can’t defend the world alone.
Then why the horde is constantly trying to wipe out the alliance when the alliance just wants to defend the world?.
The horde can’t defend the world alone. that alone makes the horde evil, isn’t that correct applying your logic?
The Alliance would certainly have had more soldiers to try to do as such with if they hadn’t been massacred time and time again.
The whole notion that “war keeps people strong” is ridiculous; it’s only because we’re dealing with a fantasy trope that we even entertain it. There comes a point of exhaustion, fatigue, and ultimate breaking when we’re talking about kingdoms/empires/nations - and their ability to make war. We’ve never seen it in game, but… (see below).
Only if the writers want that. Dealing with hypotheticals will get us no where, since even Blizzard doesn’t play by its own canon rules.
That’s a code for Aka same storyline but with a different ending like facing an old god as the end boss instead of the Warchief
wAS YOUr exPEctATIons SUbvertED?!
God that hurt my brain trying to type that…
More like my expectations were followed at every single inch(even said Sylvanas wouldn’t be a raid boss in this expansion) because they needed some important face for the next one or a controversial enough to have some hook to kill
I truly applaud you for trying to come up with something that would satisfy both sides.
But do you think there’s any way the Horde can come out of this with any new territory to quest in that won’t cause controversy and/or make Alliance players angry?
Personally, I’m skeptical. Unfortunately.
Yes.
It goes back to the base point of giving both factions something of their own, independent of each other. The whole of idea of putting the two side by side in every single story is bonkers.
In places like Ashenvale too, the “loss” for the Alliance was hyped up and made a focal point, thus giving it a platform for outrage.
If the Alliance (and Horde) was given genuinely well written stories in which they gain territory, and sensible, non-cruel stories in which they withdraw from territory without being outright butchered or slaughtered like cattle, I can’t see any reason why people would rage.
In every instance that the Alliance has lost territory, it’s been because it was a huge slap in the face. Theramore was outright nuked. Ashenvale featured the massacre of civilians -people who are the ancient inhabitants of that region btw. Southshore’s civilians* were outright vaporized into goop in the most inhumane fashion imaginable, and tortured for Forsaken experiments. None of this is gunna make players “happy”, so to speak haha.
There’s so much territory that isn’t Alliance bound that can be taken however, which would be totally fair game. Desolace would be a great spot for a new territory. In Feralas - there’s tons of land that could be developed far away from Feathermoon. Northrend, Pandaria, etc etc.
We can always give new territory, but ripping it away from one faction or the other is just not fair, unless it’s sensible (see my negotiations thing above).
Ashenvale should be Night Elf only land again just like it was before the War of Thorns. If there were negotiations, the Horde should also have to rebuild the cities and the land they have destroyed.
Azshara? Plenty of Alliance players who post regularly here are upset about that too.
So in other words, you’re not talking about the Horde gaining a new exclusive zone. But Alliance players want a new exclusive zone (Ashenvale) that’s always been contested before. That seems imbalanced.
Also, under what circumstances do you see the Alliance withdrawing from any territory it currently holds without causing upset among Alliance players? Or do you picture the Horde taking over some previously-neutral territory while the Alliance takes over previously-Horde territory? Because that has problems too.
Apoogies if this sounds combative; I think it would be great if this could work. It’s just that after MoP, I just don’t think that (some) Alliance players would tolerate any situation in which they lose territory OR the Horde gains it, after BfA. (I mean, see the post above this one, for example.)
ETA: I just thought of a quicker way to sum up the problem:
Horde players will be unhappy if they feel like they lost the war.
Alliance players won’t be happy unless they feel like they won the war.
I personally haven’t seen any of that, not that I don’t believe you. Azshara is ridiculous though because it wasn’t ever developed in the first place; it was just empty territory. Yes, culturally it is part of the Kaldorei history, but it played absolutely no role in Vanilla except for the Hydraxion rep.
Again, if we get something akin to a negotiations scenario, anything is possible. As long as it has a sensible lead up to it, we could make anything work: that’s what compromise is, after all.
Ashenvale was always contested due to the Warsong, but like I’ve said above - it doesn’t need to become a HORDE only or ALLIANCE only. Places like the Warsong Hold or w/e it’s called in Ashenvale could easily become a joint faction outpost designed to strengthen relations with proper build up. Just because you don’t have an exclusive outpost doesn’t mean you can’t have story in that zone.
From there, the Elves could even teach the Orcs about how to live at peace with the wilds on Azeroth, and work towards a better future. The Horde could have positive experiences making amends in a way that doesn’t feel punitive to one side or the other.
Same with Arathi; same with the Barrens; same with Dustwallow; same with Camp Taco; same with literally every zone we’ve ever had conflict in.
Again, this goes back to my point of faction exclusive questing. The Horde should gain stuff too (new zones, not taking it away from the Alliance), and those can be zones where only the Horde sees that story. Going to be real honest and blunt. I’m beyond sick and tired of having to see, and hear about the Horde in game. I play Alliance now and those are the stories I want exposure to; I don’t want to keep being shotgun to the Horde story in every zone.
After Teldrassil, I cannot stand to think of even logging into my old Horde characters because for me, any character who stayed loyal to the Horde for even a minute after Teldrassil is a monster. Irredeemable. I’m not ever going back to playing Horde, and that’s on Blizz for writing a story with no sensible narrative attached to it, or any worthwhile emotional response or resolution. WITH THAT SAID, I understand that most Horde players don’t think that way; I get it, and I respect that 100%. Horde players need story just as much as Alliance players.
So, this is where we embrace that faction exclusivity. We can have the Horde getting really great stories in game that I never have to hear about or suffer through, because I’m off doing really great Alliance exclusive stories; everyone walks away a winner.
Give the Forsaken a new city in X zone; let them build it up. Does the Alliance need to see these quests? Nope.
Give the Night Elves a new city in Y zone; let them build it up. Does the Horde need to see these quests? Nope.
Let. Each. Faction. Get. Great. Stories. That. Don’t. Punish. The. Other. Faction.
WoW, for the past eight or so years, has solely revolved around punishing the other faction. It’s time to reverse that, and get a few years of building up the factions independent of each other.
I’m a sick and bloody tired of the apples to apples comparisons of who gains this and who loses that. Someone is always going to claim its unbalanced. So long as there is sensible narrative, it can work.
“But where’s the WAR in WARcraft?! RAH RAH RAH, STOMP STOMP STOMP.”
^ I will put you on ignore.
Just because we’re not in an all out faction war, it doesn’t mean there isn’t conflict. There are so many different kinds of conflict to embrace and explore. WoW’s lore is naturally rich in wild and surreal opportunities for battle and conflict. And just because the two main factions are at war, it doesn’t mean there can’t be skirmishes.
No worries, I know where you’re coming from. And I think it would be great too, but unfortunately Blizzard writes about as well as a bucket of apples.