This is my 60 after I transferred him (months ago) I had to change the name…the 55 on the original post is from my old server. The only reason I transferred my Ret Pally off the server is so I could level with my friends on the Horde side.
So, don’t roll ret or enhance cause you are trash damage and substandard utility, and along with that people don’t want to give you good loot that might be beneficial somewhere else.
Thank you. I get it now.
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Why did you roll the worst meme spec twice? After seeing how bad it was (and how accurate everyone is when calling them meme specs, why did you swap factions and do it again?
So… like… are you doing this? What did you roll? Will you in fact top the damage meters?
I really do want an update when you get serious with a real spec. I’ve often wondered (for instance) what happens when a meme spec ret actually gets serious with something like fury warrior.
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Windfury Totem is not “substandard utility”. Neither is having an extra Lay on Hands, Blessing of Protection, Blessing of Freedom, Kings, etc… The problem is the stigma attached to these specs…and that stigma is why people don’t give those specs the gear they need to succeed.
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You don’t actually bring any of that for being ret/enh, what unique thing do you bring as ret or enh? If I want those things I can bring any paladin/shaman.
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Its not an extra lay on hands though. Its a lay on hands that can just as easily be brought by a holy paladin, which is an exceptional spec.
Ret pally (sadly) brings literally nothing to the table that is unique and separate from holy paladin, except it takes a slot (and the corresponding gear) that could be used by a warrior.
Exactly. 
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Do Resto Shamans bring improved Windfury Totems?
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This talent is not as good as people believe. The main thing about this talent is that it increases WF totem attack power. The thing is the only reason you use this totem is for warriors for extra rage generation. The slightly more damage per windfury they do would not increase their rage generation. The two talent points could be moved elsewhere such as guardian totems that reduce the cooldown of grounding totem to help with spells.
(Taken from classic wowhead, using a quick 5 second search into google.)
To be honest, I think you are completely missing two very important points:
- Yes, it turns out that meme specs were bad and you wasted a ton of time and energy.
- Mostly, I’m legitimately curious how you will fare once you decide to roll a viable damage spec. Will you actually enjoy it? Will you enjoy not being disrespected every time you want a good piece of gear? Will you in fact top the charts?
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They can.
Also with full naxx bis it comes out to about 10 more dps for fury warriors. That includes world buff scaling and stuff. The talent is legitimately close to worthless.
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I always encourage people not to roll meme specs, and it’s not because I’m a jerk who wants to gatekeep how people play a 15 year old game. But it’s because it genuinely sucks not to have anything good to contribute to your raid and it engenders resentment from the rest of the raid. Just play a genuinely good class.
When it comes to gear, you really can’t justify giving a BiS melee DPS piece to a class that has so so much more potential to perform with the item and will get more mileage out of it. But screwing you out of gear on account of OS or PVP items is silly.
Regarding Nightfall, the proc rate is complete trash compared to private servers and not even worth using at all in my opinion.
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Don’t forget that Shaman have something like a 8% proc rate on Nightfall, while Warriors are closer to 20%.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks.
I’m in a guild with 3 raid teams, all of which smash BWL around the 60min mark each week. Each team has exactly 1 ret pally, which we allowed (at the time) because we knew they would be swinging the nightfall. We even prio’ed Hand of Rag to them as a consolation for their dirty work.
The proc rate is garbage, and its even worse when its being used by a ret paladin, that basically can only stand there and ‘right-click’ most of the time. Even a warrior spamming hamstring is 3x better at this than a ret pally.
So now its back to… why bring a ret, exactly?
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Warrior 
Give it to a hunter, Wing Clip is insane for NF. The downside is, your hunter will cancel their sub before next raid.
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According to the forums here nightfall doesn’t even work right now well enough to justify the materials. We have one in guild, it’s on an arms warrior and you’re not kidding about how bad the damage is, he does less dps with that axe while doing his whatever it is rotation than I do with only auto attack, not joking not even slice and dice and and I still do more than that garbo weapon. That’s got me thinking why is it so popular when it’s output is so horrible and the chance to proc is so bad like according to the forums maybe 1 proc per 2 min fight and that can according to the forums get also pushed off the debuff list.
Should be “Just play a genuinely good spec.” All classes are genuinely good.
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Bugged PS rates created a meta that people are slow to shift away from.
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We had an Orc off-off-offtank use it and spam Hamstring, and he had Windfury too of course. Literally the best wielder you could possibly ask for, and you would be better off just equipping actual DPS weapons.
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As shadow priest i even myself feel bad for stealing loot from real casters like warlocks and mages. (And my second 60 is warlock because of that feeling). And also very very useless. Both my lock and SP at 320 +spd right now and lock due to lifetap does several times more damage. (+aoe ofc)
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Hunters have more than double the proc rate than a Warrior. More than five times that of a Shaman. I do agree that it’s not worth.
Edit: Hey, I know you 