Hunters have more than double the proc rate than a Warrior. More than five times that of a Shaman. I do agree that it’s not worth.
Edit: Hey, I know you 
Wing Clip spam and Hamstring spam are equivalent aren’t they? Assuming you have the PVP set bonus that reduces the rage cost enough to make it spammable every GCD.
Math has been done, and its generally a dps loss for the raid group for a hunter to swing Nightfall over attacking normally with a ranged weapon.
Nightfall only makes sense for ret paladins/enhancement shaman whose dps output is bad enough to warrant it.
If you can spam it indefinitely, I suppose that they are similar. Hunter is usually suggested the best option because they give up less than the Warrior would while still providing True Shot and Wolf Howl.
The proc chance is far lower though. There really isn’t a place for ret/enhance at all in raids in a competitive setting.
I know that NF itself isn’t worth losing a single player’s dps, we were discussing who does it best.
Do you know how the math changes by Naxx, when Hunter’s DPS falls behind Mage and Warlock by a considerable amount?
Ehh, this game is 15 years old. Everything is known. Why would you roll RET again after knowing it is bad? Don’t tell me it’s because you wanted to prove people something, you just hoped you’d be carried better now than 15 years ago.
This is the reason I rolled horde, so I wouldn’t have to deal with idiots playing ret in my raids/pvp groups
A lot of people unfamiliar with classic seemed to believe prior to release that “unplayable” in classic means what it does in BFA.
Na friends, you ain’t looking at a 15% dps difference here lol.
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I am aware that hunter tapers off at Naxx, although even at Naxx I’d argue hunter dps is still considerably better than most of the meme specs.
But I am not arguing for personal dps, but raid dps as a whole (though the two are related.) Should a raid group bring a ret paladin, their average contribution would be higher with Nightfall than without. This is not true for a hunter/warrior, even with higher NF uptime. For the warrior, their weapon is everything, so wielding Nightfall is a significant dps loss for them. For the hunter, merely meleeing and spamming wing clip is a sizable dps loss compared to our normal rotation.
I’m following you, dude. I was asking raid dps.
The bit that you lose me, is suggesting that you’d bring a meme spec at all. I’d rather have a NF hunter than a Enhance shaman but I would never put a hunter through that. There’s a player behind that hunter and it’s not right to crush their soul.
Or just find a guild that accepts the player and not the class(to an extent).
Not everyone cares about min/max and would rather bring people who they want to play with than worry about maximizing individual dps.
Play what you want to play and just recognize that there will be fewer options for guilds based on those decisions. Just like no one is entitled to Telling anyone what spec to play, if they set out the rules for their guild then you are expected to abide by them as well.
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Reread OP. It’s not fun being carried even while accepted by your peers.
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Define being carried. My ret paladin currently does enough damage to meet the dps requirements for patchwork, the last dps check in Naxxramas.
So, if I am doing enough damage to beat the final bosses in the game, I fail to see how that is being “carried”
This game is easy mode, it’s actually kinda pathetic the level of elitism in this game.
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Well I am saying that if a ret paladin or enhancement shaman is brought to the raid at all, then putting them on Nightfall duty makes sense, while it wouldn’t make sense to force a pure dps class to wield Nightfall as it severely destroys their potential, even if the upkeep on NF is higher.
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What I think the OP is not understanding, is that even if his enhancement shaman is forced to totem-twist and swing Nightfall and has paltry dps because of it, that same shaman is still contributing more to the raid than if they were to play enhancement as they would a pure dps class.
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Yeah. . . it’s clearly the axe at fault and not your spec is just outright garbage anyway so giving you a Nightfall lets you live out your fantasy and actually be worth something to the raid.
That being said, it’d be interesting if Details was able to calculate the bonuses you gave other people as your damage. I imagine a lot more warriors would willingly use Nightfall, or Sunder Armor if it actually counted as their damage.
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Carried? the game is 15years old… Do you honestly think 15years of data gathering leads to a person being carried by others? the game is easy. How much dps do you think is required to clear content? Ret paladin met the “required dps” over a decade ago. There is NO carrying, the standards required to complete content is very low.
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There is a female orc shaman that posts here - Thundathighs I believe is their name. Speak to them about Enhancement Shaman. Not only do they parse really high, their DPS is on par and better than actual DPS classes.
However, this person definitely comes prepared to raids and just doesn’t “show up” like most others.
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This is the same community that spends 2 miserable, repetitive hours getting world buffs and not playing their main all week to save a half hour in raids.
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I mean they parse well but they’re consistently doing under half of what #1 is doing.
No. Thundathighs actually does well, parsing excluded. They aren’t at the bottom of the list as people would expect
I’m looking at their WCL from the past weeks with my own two eyes. Maybe you should too.
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