bUt tEh hEaLeR pArSeS!
But yeah, 80 deaths is a case of widespread bedrock issues across much of the raid group.
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You’re blaming the logs but the cold hard truth is that you’ve been showing up to raids with an attitude that suggests you want to be carried and you’re not willing to put in as much effort as the other raiders. The fact that you’re in a sub-optimal DPS spec means you should be working HARDER than everyone else to make sure you’re as useful as you can be. But you’re not. You’re not even enchanting your gear. That’s lazy, and that’s the reason people don’t want to carry you. Why should they care about you if you clearly don’t care about them?
Other questions you can ask yourself…
Do you go afk without telling anyone?
Are you responsive in Discord when called out?
Do you communicate effectively?
Are you an enjoyable person to have around? Do you bring positivity to the group?
Do you understand the mechanics? Do you bring potions?
The list goes on. I don’t know the answer to all these questions, but you do. And I suggest you take an honest look at yourself and ask yourself if you’re doing everything you possibly can to be useful.
I’ve been in plenty hardcore and semi-hardcore guilds. The hardcore guilds usually won’t take a Ret Pally or a Moonkin, but most semi-hardcore guilds would as long as the player is a cool dude that they enjoy having part of the team.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but it’s the truth you probably need to hear.
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I feel sorry for the guild that spent 1k on Nightfall for a Ret they were willing to bring but turned out to be a flop that couldn’t be bothered to do more than show up. How many uses of that Nightfall did you give them before you dipped with some of the resources they invested in you? The community would be worse off if more were like you.
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i run 8/8 judgement and never had any issue with anything so idk
i refuse to wear clothes instead of holy plated armor
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Corehound Belt isn’t Judgement Belt.
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You can probably find a guild that is OK with the level of performance of sub-standard specs.
Maybe, but refusing to play your class in a spec that is better for your group, and then having issues seems par for the course. The whole situation seems like a case of bad fit, imo.
Of course, if people who are playing classes with specs doing the same role, but out-performing by large margins are competing for the same gear, or are put in a situation where people who are performing vastly worse are competing for the same gear, I could imagine they would go elsewhere.
Not every team is going to be, or has to be aiming to be at the level of a professional, some teams are going to be aiming for the junior-level. The playstyle, practice, etc. of either of those teams is going to be quite different from a beer league.
Mismatching preferences and goals between individuals and organizations can make for an all around uncomfortable experience. It sounds like the OP would like to play Ret and be treated equally as a DPSer for loot priority as a DPS Warrior or Rogue.
Maybe find a guild that aligns with those values.
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Classic raid logs analysis is like studying and preparing for a 2nd grade test as an adult.
You can prepare like mad and then a boss dies in < 1 minute because the fights are a joke.
People compare parses because the actual encounters are so boring and easy.
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you dont even really need to do any damage, just show up and keep light on a target and swing the nightfall if you have one. you are raiding as ret in tier 1 and tier 2 content, consider your self very lucky because most paladin who want that dont even get that option.
So people dying while a Holy Paladin is not casting when he could be, doesn’t matter?
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This is a truth that way too many people overlook. This isn’t retail kids, threat means something in Classic.
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Ultimately this is just a mismatch of values & expectations. You should find a guild with the same values and commitment that you have.
Dude in the OP is a liar, but the context of the conversation has mostly shifted from him to the general topic.
DPS meters back in the day were a completely different animal because the comparison was not with the entire world, it was with your guild most of the time. It was not you competing with 30000 other rogues, it was you competing with XXlegolasXX who just got his Rhok and has slowly been inching towards your position, or it was with Boogerbalz who was trying out a new spec that week.
Parses now are across so many different variables that most people dont factor into their decisions. You are now competing with other people who might optimize Raid composition, kill times, cooldown useage, gear allocation, loot drop RNG etc and it now can contribute to much more toxic behavior WITHIN a guild towards other guildmates that the old school friendly competition doesnt.
We have around a 1.30 BWL and typically almost exactly an hour MC. We have started optimizing buff slots, disallowing people from using abilities so that CERTAIN classes can try and parse while others can not. It inherently creates a “class” system within a guild because guilds are deciding who is allowed to try and parse and who is not, simply from debuff slot allocation. If we were having problem clearing content in general? That would be one thing, but this alienation is solely for the sake of parsing.
We have even started wiping a few times, costing us world buffs, because they are forgoing the safety margins to try and get those kill times down. Just this last week our MT died on the firemaw pull, and as we were trying to recover and get him into position other melee were in there blasting their DPS as if it were a normal pull. As a result one of them pulled aggro, throwing off the tank rotation and getting everyone shadowflamed. After the wipe the only complaint they had was “Damn, I was on par for a 99 that fight before we wiped”.
I think Logs/Parses are great as an educational tool, however warcraft logs does not account for enough variables in their parses to say if it is a skill/rotational issue, or if its just that someone lost world buffs that week or got a huge upgrade. It also does not account for utility, and is a poor measure of classes that actively improve other classes when trying to compare numbers.
6 Likes
That isn’t what you said.
threat noun. “Oh god, oh god, we’re all going to die!”
I hear your frustration, because any class that isn’t a mage, warrior, or rogue feels this way currently (though as a warlock, my time to shine is coming soon I hope).
The first story you were clearly right. The second story, I think you are to blame. I interpret what you did as not trying very hard. People want to raid with people who put in effort, not just the bare minimum.
Our guild does not need world buffs to clear BWL. We are by no means a hardcore guild, and do not require potions, world buffs, or flasks. Most of our people think alike and want to parse and beat each other, so even without a requirement, 90+% of people show up for all world buffs before the raid. The few that don’t always apologize, or are the casual rotating roster (and this may be a reason they are in this category). We don’t require it, but when someone doesn’t consistently show up for buffs/potion, it sends the message that they just don’t care as much. If this were a job, it would be like showing up in a T-shirt and jeans when everyone else comes in a a dress shirt and blazer.
My interpretation of scenario 2 is:
“This person does not try hard on farm content, and therefore I have no sign that they will try hard on progression content. Even if BWL is easy, I am looking for someone good, who I can give gear to, that will be able to pull their weight when the REAL raiding starts in AQ40/Naxx”. This was your first raid with them, and you didn’t try. I think in this situation it was lack of effort (caught on logs) that got you benched. Logs allowed you to get caught slacking because you thought you could.
First situation not your fault, and a poor guild and guild leader. I hope you DE the nightfall and send him the mats for it.
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Shrug, I would keep discussing this with you but it looks like the rest of thread showed me that I was basically correct in my initial assumption.
Sorry I gave you a chance.
I would be more concerned about what was causing those 80 people to take such damage before I would start blaming the healers.
Let me guess, you’re one of those mages that only pays attention to how he can maximize his DPS, screw the entire threat mechanic thing, right?
Exactimundo.
Sorry, going to call BS on this story.
Whitemane Alliance is one of largest and most competitive servers. And aside from the 10 or so try-hard guilds, most guilds here don’t make a big deal from the logs unless something is terribly wrong.
Logs are a great tool, because there have definitely been cases where guilds have kicked the guild leech.
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Yeah but blaming dps for pulling threat is the same as cutting your raids DPS in half and then blaming the healers for running out of mana when the fight lasts 2x as long.