It’s crazy the way this guy twists words and quotes around. He says “SOME” when he means “virtually everyone” because as he said, vote kicking wasn’t a huge issue. So almost everyone had the ability to vote kick instantly after patch 3.3.5. during original WoTLK.
The Blue post even uses the word “most.”
And then without the vote kick cooldown being removed, you can’t remove players that are actively detrimental to the group right from the start.
Detrimental? We were talking about Wrath Heroics. A braindead chimp would do just fine. So now you’re talking about an issue created by Blizz by adding Mythic dungeons.
By the way, in regards to your prior post the tank would still have the 15 minute dungeon cooldown. So while not 30, they’re still waiting and can’t requeue. An idiot might try that once and realize it’s not worthwhile. But they couldn’t try it at all if Blizz had kept the original RDF design.
There are no Mythic dungeons in Wrath Classic.
Being afk is still afk. You should be allowed to kick them if they’re not contributing.
Yes there are. And they’re the root of all of this nonsense. If it was simple Wrath Heroics this wouldn’t be going on at all. Players would be ripping through dungeons. No one would care about your gearscore. It would be a phenomenal catch-up mechanic without the drama.
Like it was in original Wrath.
He just doesn’t stop lol. Even when he’s clearly wrong. I think he just likes stirring up drama over a game he doesn’t play.
Who’s wrong? Me? Everything I claimed is being proven right. What are you talking about? I’ve been right about everything.
‘Oh, see people were holding groups hostage!’ Yeah, because the 15 minute start of dungeon cd was removed.
You’re not going to break my confidence when I keep being right. My stalker tries yet another ‘Gotcha!’ moment and fails to realized I referenced that very same Blue post a month ago. 
A Blue post that only servers to illustrate vote kicks were not being abused.
Just gonna post this again, so you guys know what you’re arguing with:
This post:
was made the day before they announced the removal of RDF. He then made this post immediately after:
He doesn’t play the game (has admitted it), and it’s a little obvious he’s only here to troll. Spent years calling RDF the worst thing ever and the day it’s announced it’s being removed:
“rdf is fine actually”
Like, come on.
This is 100% the case. It’s a little sad, but some people have strange hobbies.
this one is pretty good:
And why it has already been covered. You just keep spinning this in circles.
Let’s get a general timeline of how RDF changed over time established, I’m putting this to rest. When it first came out, it:
Had a long (15 minute) wait time on voting to kick someone once the dungeon started.
Being vote kicked did not give you Dungeon Deserter (but also did not reset Dungeon Cooldown, preventing you ONLY from RANDOMLY queuing for dungeons)
After some time, Blizzard realized that 15 minutes was simply too long for people to have to deal with toxic or afk players once a dungeon had started, so they changed it to no wait time, but over-use of vote-kicks would incur a personal wait time on using it. (This is also known to be a Wrath change)
This then led to people encouraging others to kick them in dungeons. This was most likely to avoid Dungeon Deserter (a 30 minute debuff preventing ALL queuing), and instead only having the Dungeon Cooldown (15 minute wait on RANDOMLY queuing). This meant that if they so chose, they could get themselves kicked for a lesser severe penalty, allowing them to requeue for specific dungeons while waiting out the random cooldown, or doing anything else. This happened in Wrath as evidenced from a post dated October 2010
As a result, we then got a change that getting kicked would also get you the deserter debuff, to fully end abuse of the vote kick system for any kind of personal gain. (This seems to have started in early Cataclysm)
As it stands, this is how RDF works in Wrath Classic:
Around a 3-5 minute wait time (from personal testing on current Wrath Classic) to kick people from the start of the dungeon, which is long enough that players won’t be bothered to wait around to kick lowbie players
The vote kick waiting time is extended if over-used, thereby preventing “elitists” or “toxic” players from using it after a while
Being vote kicked incurs Dungeon Deserter, helping to keep toxic players out of the dungeon pool longer.
This may not have entirely been the RDF present during Wrath launch, but it’s the one that accounts for the flaws of the original. It only makes sense to use this version instead of re-implementing a system that was known to be abusable for personal gain. Yes, some people can use it to kick lowbies out of dungeons, but only so many times before the tool starts becoming useless to them. No matter how you look at it, this is the better version of the vote-kick system.
No, the original version was the best and least toxic. They didn’t remove the vote kick cooldown because of your claim. It was done because players weren’t kicking people, and only those people had the power. The Blue post literally says “We have found that most players using the Dungeon Finder don’t use the Vote Kick feature or abandon groups very often. For these players, we are removing the cooldown on voting to kick players from a dungeon party.”
Which is exactly what I’ve been saying since the start. It wasn’t a problem. But then Blizz changed it and opened the floodgates. Now players CAN try to hold a group hostage, which I still literally never witnessed a single time. It was not a widespread problem. Until Cata. Which is where all these people are confusing their Cata experience with their Wrath one. But it’s a big problem in Wrath Classic, thanks to Mythics and the toxic gatekeeping they promote.
In any event, had they left the original RDF system it would be like it was back in Wrath: players with no reason to troll. They’d just bang out the dungeon, because that’s the most efficient thing to do. And especially in Classic where players are obsessed with min/maxing efficiency.
And, again, Mythics contribute to this toxicity. None of this gatekeeping would be necessary had they just been regular Wrath Heroics. They were cake back in Wrath. And nowdays…forget about it. They’d be…what’s easier than cake? Whatever that is.
Because they had to wait too long to kick anyone.
Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And evidence was provided that it did happen.
There are no Mythics in Wrath Classic, boot up the game once in a while.
Which demonstrates having the 15 minute cooldown worked.
It means it wasn’t a widespread problem at all. Obviously you can dig up a post or two of people complaining about it. The fact my stalker has spent endless hours scouring the internet and came up with a grand total of 2 posts shows just how rare it was.
Yes, there are.
It worked in both directions, toxic players couldn’t kick lowbies, and people couldn’t kick toxic or non-contributing players or afk (which, if several people were lesser geared or it was a tank or healer, really mattered)
Having a lesser cooldown that increases from over-use is far superior. Why are you unable to understand that?
A lot of the old WoW forums is totally gone from that time. So neither of us actually have the evidence to back up either side of our claims.
Kick lowbies? What? The system was automated to only allow you to queue if you were in the correct level range.
And gear? These were Wrath Heroics. Even the extremely minimal ilevel requirements weren’t even necessary. The ICC ones had slightly higher requirements. If you hit that, you were fine.
Here’s my evidence: I was there. I know. You simply cannot gaslight me about the Wrath dungeon experience. Isn’t going to work.
What you can find from a very simple Google search, however, is an incredible amount of toxicity, gatekeeping, vote kicking abuse during Cata. It spiked to huge numbers. And people are confusing that with Wrath, clearly.
Low geared people.
And what about the tank or healer going afk and not returning as soon as the dungeon starts? You think it’s fine to force people to wait 15 minutes to kick someone? People with bare minimum gear requirements would struggle then.
And so were many others who are saying the exact opposite as you. The problem is neither side can prove it. That’s why forum posts and comments from back then matter. Because they cannot be falsified anymore.
Didn’t happen. “Oh, but look here’s one post from back then that says it did!” Yeah and a few people got struck by lightning too. In fact, probably more people.
No, the people who agree with what I’ve said (the vast majority) have proven they played Wrath and remember how it was. The people who disagree get all kinds of facts wrong. You know how many people I’ve had to educate about RDF on these forums? People like my stalker who try to disprove me and only demonstrate I’m right and know exactly what I’m talking about.
This kind of toxicity was not a wide-spread problem during Wrath. That is a fact. But it is specific to Wrath. In Cata it’s a different story. For the same reason it’s different in Wrath Classic. With greater difficulty in content comes greater toxicity. Players feel more need to min/max and obsess about every little thing. I called all this way back before Wrath Classic even launched and Blizz announced the Mythic dungeons. I knew how it would turn out. And that’s not an ego thing. If you knew anything about me, you’d know I have no ego. Pointing out obvious common sense stuff is not impressive. It’s nothing to be proud of. It just demonstrates if a dummy like me can see this stuff coming, how clueless and inept is the Classic team?
This guy, lol.
Virtually everything he types is a lie. Anyways, if people could report him every time he calls me a stalker, it would be appreciated.
Alright. I guess it’s impossible for either of us to see eye to eye on this.
I’ve been playing since 2006. I’ve seen a lot of things in this game, and I’ve heard a lot of things in this game.
I really think what we have right now at this moment is better than the alternative. But you don’t, and I can respect that.
If we cannot agree on this, then so be it. I’ll just let it rest here.
Oh, but, for next time, perhaps less “it didn’t happen” replies? There’s a lot of things that never will happen to you or I in the world, nor will we ever hear of them. Doesn’t mean they don’t happen.
And maybe play the game once in a while. Not everything you hear from the forums is fact (people will embellish quite a lot in order to make a good story). Heroic+ is quite fun at times too (with maybe 3 certain dungeons as the exception).
I bid you good night.
Look, the question I’ve been trying to get anyone to ask is “Would the old system work in Wrath Classic?” No one is asking me that.
I keep talking about how it was back in original Wrath, and I’m right about that. But things are different now. The playerbase is different. Blizzard has added these Mythic or Heroic+ or whatever you want to call it and it’s radically different. So would the old rules be effective? That’s harder to say. But the root of the problem is still the changes Blizz made to begin with. There should never have been harder dungeons. We saw what that did to the playerbase the first time. Or at least I did.
So at the end of the day I can accept they have to account for today’s atmosphere. But it’s an atmosphere they created. That’s been my point. A truly authentic overall Wrath experience would have been so much more relaxed and chilled out and…fun. Not a stressful, e-sport toxic, gatekept mess. And I hate that that’s what they turned the Wrath dungeon experience into, since the original was the opposite of that.