I’m happy to see hunters brought up to the standards of other classes with the TWW beta rework. My remaining primary concerns with the class are the bloated class tree with PvP talents (Easily adjustable to be PvE viable) and our raid buff is underwhelming.
Defensives & Externals:
Hunters now have a strong selection of CDs to ensure their survivability in their core toolkit. I’m very happy with the reworked trees from a defensive perspective though there are a few things that can be changed to round out the hunter kit:
Defensives in general should be off the GCD, especially exhilaration.
Ghillie suit is janky to play around. This node should also allow us to camouflage in combat - mages already have this with their invisibility.
BM’s Sprit Mend needs a buff for rot damage and self-sustain - should do a 1/3rd of an exhil to better deal with rot damage.
Revise Roar of Sacrifice to protect a target from all damage types, not just critical strikes, to become a 10% DR for a party member. Alternatively, move this talent into the PvP talent section, our class tree is bloated with PvP talents that bring no value in PvE.
Class Utility:
With the introduction of Implosion Trap, which I suggested, we finally have a solid AoE kick as every other class had. The primary remaining issue is our raid buff which desperately needs a buff and to be able to bring something to M+ groups; I suggest our pet provide the group stats like an external raid buff in the pet utility section.
Binding shot needs to be played around to get any usage and most tanks tend to not realize that it is even down to take advantage of the stun. Its SL root functionality worked well when necrotic/kite meta existed but I don’t see it being as strong now. Functionality similar to Spear of Bastion/Sigial of Chains as a CC is ideal.
Bursting Shot - The knockback on this spell is a bit too strong and it’s a melee range spell despite the name implying a shot or arrow.
Hunter’s Mark should increase damage for the first and last 20% by 5% to compete with what other classes bring to the table. In its current state, an additional 1% overall is very weak compared to any other class buff. Hunters are known for their Kill Shot execute, the current execution of Hunter’s Mark as a Raid buff contradicts this. This is further doubled down by Unnatural Causes being added to the class tree.
Perhaps Hunter’s Mark becomes an AoE 20 yard or larger radius as there’s nothing more awkward than trying to tab target to the priority mob in M+.
Scare Beast has no usage currently and is devalued further due to its cast time and focus usage. This node needs to be removed or replaced with something similar to Priest/DK’s ability to temporarily control a beast.
Pets Utility & Bloodlust
With pets being a core aspect of Hunters, I’m hoping to squeeze in some new M+ group synergy and a reason to be brought to M+ groups - see the last point.
Provide more pet flexibility - let us set any pet as ferocity/cunning/tenacity in the stable.
Allow hunters to lust as a baseline talent. Currently, MM hunters are dropping their Lone Wolf buff to lust and BM/Survival is giving up Fort of the Bear (+ Spirit Mend for BM) to lust. Every other lust class gives up nothing to press lust.
Alternatively, if hunters are stuck depending on a pet for utility, return the ability of pets being able to Battle Resurrect by assigning it to Tenacity/Cunning pets.
Survival Feedback & Suggestions:
Raptor Strike and Serpent Sting should be made baseline to the spec. Being a melee spec but not getting a melee ability (RS) till level 13 is odd.
Mongoose Bite (MB) and Raptor Strike(RS) - We’re investing a talent point to receive an “upgraded” version of a base spell that does similar damage to every other damage spell as all of our abilities are influenced by our mastery - this includes bombs, KC, FS, ES, SH, and CA.
The Mongoose Fury window is clunky in its current 5-stack iteration. RS and MB need a 25-35% buff to still be relent in ST and they would end up being 20-25% of our ST damage overall.
I’m not the biggest fan of how Merciless Blows (BM/RS hits 3 targets) works and the talent in general. This talent is trying to shoehorn a ST button (RS/MB) into the AoE rotation instead of MB/RS being a filler button. It adds clunkiness (GCD Bloat) to the rotation. If it remains as is, it should give us 1 stack of Mongoose Fury per target hit.
Ruthless Marader provides very little value for the 2nd point invested (35% → 50%). Either make this a 1-point node that provides benefits when the target is below 50% health, or bake in Ruthless Marader’s effect to FoTE and replace the node with the DF S3 tier set effect.
Lunge is the only talent providing a direct benefit for increased attack speed granted from Trigger Finger (Class tree). Lunge (this talent really needs to be renamed) should be placed lower in the tree rather than gatekeeping the left side of the tree.
GCD Bloat - It feels like Bombardier is contributing towards the spec’s GCD Bloat, specifically the Explosive Shots at the end of CA.
BM Suggestions & Feedback:
The problem with the hybrid AoE options (Barrage, Bloody Frenzy) is that while they activate Beast Cleave, you are missing out on Kill Cleave if it is not talented, which is responsible for a significant amount of AoE.
A Murder of Crows passive likely would have worked better in the Dark Ranger tree. This proc can be wasted if it goes off on a target that dies shortly after - it should allow A Murder of Crow to proc on the next target if it dies while the DoT is active.
Barrage as an AoE burst talent will be useful in raid situations where you don’t need to commit to full AoE for a raid encounter. I think this node should share a choice node with Flayed Shot to also provide a ST option.
Kindred Spirits is not a good talent - at no point do we need our maximum focus to be increased as it is constantly being spent between Cobra Shot and Kill Command. To add insult to injury, the talent is a 2-point node that only increases our focus by 10 each level - making this a very weak talent.
Dire Beast (the talent) feels like it’s in an awkward spot. Dire Command functions very similarly summoning a dire beast but is entirely passive. It feels like Dire Beast is just gatekeeping Huntmaster’s Call.
Here is a list of bugs currently for Survival and BM per the Hunter class discord: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SyyJ9FJ-kU5LMMTsaXIesOUE4dY8cDiTkAVc-s0qw9M/edit?gid=0#gid=0
Wyvern Sting - Passive - Class Tree
Tranquilizing Shot also suppresses the benefits of all enrage effects for 10 seconds. Weaker enemies are also put to sleep for the duration, though the sleeping effect wears off if the target is damaged.
Binding Tar - Passive - Class Tree
Tar Trap also stuns enemies within its area for 3 seconds when it is first triggered. The cooldown of Tar Trap is also increased by 15 seconds.
Also, Survival of the Fittest should probably swap positions with Concussive Shot in the class tree.
Though I would like to add in some idea’s (For Survival Hunter) A consolidation of talent points.
Make Raptor Strike cost no points.
Make Aspect of The Eagle baseline. As in not even a talent. But something you can pull out of your spell book at such an such level.
Combine harpoon and Terms of Engagement together into one talent node.
Where terms of Engagment was add a new Talent Goldrinn’s Aspectual Presence Aspect Of the Eagle cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds. Aspect Of the Turtle now allows you to use all your abilities and spells while active. (Think paladin divine shield) Aspect Of The Cheetah effects all friendly allies within 25 yards.
Combine Fury Of the Eagle and Ruthless Marauder’s full effect into one talent.
Where Ruthless Marauder was put in a choice talent of either our season 3 tier set. Fury of the Eagle throws a free Wildfire Bomb at your current target at 100% effectiveness, generates 1 charge of Wildfire Bomb, and increases the damage Wildfire Bomb deals to your primary target by 40% for 12 sec.
Or Wild Spirits.
This was the Hunter’s Covenant Ability if you choose Being Night Fae in Shadowlands.
The one change to it i’d make instead of a reticle to place somewhere have it be casted on what you currently have targeted.
Combine Spear Focus effect right in with Sweeping Speer. Put some new talent in the place where Spear focus was.
This should free up some points to be able to use more talents from Survival’s talent tree.
Just a few other ideas.
Change Quick Shot to our Shadowlands legendary effect Wildfire Cluster Wildfire Bomb drops an additional cluster of bombs around the target, each exploding for (33% of Attack power) Fire damage.
A new Talent to put somewhere in the tree, i’m not sure what i’d call it but it would do this Dealing Fire damage has a chance to invigorate you, absorbing “X” amount of damage for 6 seconds.
Functions exactly how the Seal of Filial Duty ring works from Vault Of the Incarnates off of Broodkeeper Diurna. This would help give Survival Hunter’s some survivability.
It tracks to with throwing a Wildfire bomb at melee range. I mean the Person throwing it would find a way to not blow themselves up too right?
I got a bunch of other ideas not just for Survival but Hunter as a hole as well but I feel no one is listening or evening reading this.
The developers are going to do what the developers are going to do.
Added. Spear focus and Sweeping spear are pretty much placeholders for tuning knobs, I hope they’re removed.
We have a class talent that lowers ‘Aspect of the X’ abilities already in the class tree, Born to be Wild. This seems very similar. I’ve added the ‘Aspect Of the Turtle now allows you to use all your abilities and spells while active’ part as that makes a lot of sense.
I forgot Wildfire Cluster was a thing. I saw a tree mockup maybe 2 weeks ago that had them drop at a 20% chance with butchery which I thought was interesting.
ChatGBT is so helpful with coming up with names for stuff like this. I’d love this on top of Sentinal’s passive shield.
Thank you for sharing your ideas. My hope is that most of these are implemented and it points someone at Blizzard in the right direction.
I imagine it’s not possible to remove a debuff for 10s with existing spaghetti code but making Tranq shot a sleep/stun would be neat.
I think it’s more likely we get something like tar trap’s slowness lingers on the target than a full stun. More (or a proper) AoE stuns would be nice.
Did anyone else play around with Dark Ranger hero talents on Beta? They are absolute, uninspired garbage. Having your main “hero” ability as black arrow, an 18 sec dot which can spawn “Dark Hounds”. The Dark hounds are basically the necrotic ankle biter dogs from Maldraxxus, NOT as they should be, maybe a dark, enlarged shadow dog that mauls your target? And black arrow has a chance to proc “Barbed Shot” for BM… yes, because that’s what BM needs, more Barbed shots.
Add in the 4 set and your pet has the potential to bite harder (do slightly more damage) from time to time.
Meanwhile, every DK I saw had the 4 horsemen of the apocolypse following them around.
Give hunters some meaningful hero talents, rather than trying to bake in some needed additions to defensives in what should otherwise be HERO talents.
This is not the thread to complain about the hero talents, but rather the core trees that are changing next week. If you have no meaningful feedback to contribute, post anywhere else like their respective hero tree feedback threads. There’s 0 point in complaining about the same theme issues as everyone else has since beta started as the heavy lifting of researching hunter issues has been placed in their lap already, sweetie. We all just have to sit back and hope they do something meaningful and listen (or at least have basic reading comprehension skills) to feedback.
I don’t disagree with your points, I just ask to not change the topic, or to be off-topic.
Pure visual clutter, they will not have fun in melee when they can’t see mechanics.
Our feedback has made it obvious hunters want an extra pet from Pack Leader or something more flashy (Another CoTW basically) even though the current tree works very well with both specs, it’s too boring for players. I Haven’t looked at Dark Ranger’s feedback thread but I personally think that tree needs a complete overhaul with new visuals, everything but Smoke Screen is kind of bad game-play wise. Sentinal is fine cause it’s entirely passive, just needs the visual reverted or a major revamp to be a ‘lunar storm’ rather than a bird pooping on trash with no visual of the range and has the issues of tanks being able to kite mobs out of the storm. A bit a point cleaning up the obvious tuning knobs wouldn’t hurt either.
These aren’t “current” talents… this is Beta. The listing is literally “Consolidated Hunter Feedback…”, I actually agree with your considered reworks, so lose the attitude, sweetie. How are we to discuss what we want when we can’t discuss what is currently in the Beta?
You missed the point… it’s regarding that hunters need changes to go with the fantasy of being a hunter, along with reasonable defenses, smooth rotation game-play (MM) and something more than two-button smash (BM).
I find it funny that you felt the need to edit your first response TWICE after getting call out.
Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion…
BM needs a major overhaul and work on the fantasy of the BM hunter.
The idea of everything revolving around increasing barbed shots and have random stabled pets or dire beasts spawn does not seem very master of beasts.
With the lore of the Emerald Dream, they should considering adding BM’s ability to summon “Empowered Pets” from the Emerald Dream or from another plane of existence to fight for the hunter briefly. Play in with the whole updated stable and allow hunters to choose one pet of each spec (Ferocity/Tenacity/Cunning) and have rotational abilities slowly empower those pets to be summoned.
Empowered Pets would be summoned for a short duration of time (20 secs, perhaps?) and allow for different damage/burst based on the pet’s spec.
Ferocity would focus around an AOE/cleave empowered pet.
Tenacity would focus on single target empowered pet, along with a temporary health boost for the hunter.
Cunning would provide low damage, but provide the hunter and normal pets with a damage buff for a short duration.
Playing into the fantasy of pack leader/beast mastery, while also providing some choices of when to use an empowered pet situationally.
If you play the spec well, you can empower your pets quicker and would raise the skill ceiling from the floor. Furthermore, they need to stop giving barbed shots out like candy and make the rotation more difficult to maintain.
A major overhaul that would play into the evolving lore and story telling in WoW and giving BM hunter a more multi-dimensional play style and fantasy.
And after 20 years, hunters should have learned the ability to blood lust from their pets. We will all just need to continue to sound like broken records to drive this point home.
I would like BM to move away from the KC spam with barbed shot uptime watching and more into interactions with your pet for sure, and by god please no more of this "summon random animal for 6 second BS… it’s you and your companion please!
I am very much not liking your version of dire beast as well. It just sounds like more specific dire beasts? Why do we need to run around and summon random animals? Even if they are empowered… Warlocks are doing the summoning, keep it with them.
The issue with BM is that it’s a top 3 most popular spec and for whatever reason Blizzard is doubling down on it being the ‘easy 2 button mash’ spec, so I unfortunately doubt they move away from the easy-to-play gameplay style. If they were going to make any dramatic changes, it likely would have likely been in Alpha but I’d love Blizzard to prove me wrong this week. it would be nice if they did something more with Cobra Shot - what that exactly is, I’m not sure. I’ve thrown around the idea of it applying a dot like SS but that hasn’t been very popular in hunter discord. for whatever reason. I don’t hear them coming up with anything unique or creative.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting from a beast master if it isn’t summoning animals or empowering them to aid you in combat as that’s exactly what CoTW and Dire Beast does. For lore reasons, you can say they come out of a random nearby bush rather than ‘summoning’.
Perhaps Blizzard move Pack Leader’s pet empowerment into BM’s tree to replace dead nodes and overhaul Pack Leader to ‘More BM’ pet summoning with a permanent 3rd or 4th pet that is going to hit like a wet noodle because it would be busted with beast cleave and would do very little for Surv unless CoTW empowerment stacked with pet autos like the current tree is kind of doing.
Regardless, no point in spending hours making fanfics of trees or trying to come up with creative ideas. We can only point Blizzard in the right direction with feedback and hope they implement it.
Agree that I am highly doubtful this coming weeks “changes” (note they said changes… not rework or such) are anything serious or large, it’s probably going to be some moving of talents and fine tuning. I’d Love to be proven wrong though.
Blizzard has just been too clear about the fact that alpha is where the large changes happen and beta is about bug fixes, tuning/balance and marketing. We’ve so far as I know never had any proper large changes/reworks happen in a beta.
BM is and can be easy sure. But I would still like to see more actual interaction with our BEAST (hence… beastmaster) and not just calling for random animals in the vicinity to come and help us for a few seconds… Beastmaster doesn’t inherently mean master of many beasts coming to fight for you. It can for sure, but I personally would prefer if it focused more on you and your one (or two I guess…) companion. TL;DR I prefer the true beastmaster/companion build over zookeeper.
I would love to get rid of cobra shot. What even is that? Are we seriously a hunter running around shooting cobras? Sounds like something from a 90’s kid cartoon. It just looks horrible as well. Replace it with arcane shot please.
Solid list of suggestions, hope blizzard sees this list. They won’t make any major changes but improvements to the class’s core issues like another defensive and a less flat damage profile for surv are always welcome. Or they could make mail armor stronger cause it’s oddly mail classes are just squishier than cloth classes. They should really do something with cobra shot for BM too. It’s such a weird filler.
Post updated, early thoughts on the first wave of beta talent changes. Basically, we have too much “situational CC” which limits Hunter’s viability in keys still, there are still a few pointless talent nodes, and the majority of previously mentioned issues have been resolved while some remain.
Hunters still do not have a solid aoe kick. Intimidate being tree targets is something at least. I hope they change it to become our aoe kick. Hunters just have such odd utility for their class fantasy, we should have tranq shot disorientate as well or something other than knockback cc.
I don’t have much use for Binding Shot but want Scatter/Bursting (or both, but ok). Would it be better for those nodes and their child node to be swapped?
*Trailblazer is more valuable for leveling than anything else, and should go near the top of the tree.
for surv. having raptor strike just to go into mongoose bite makes no sense. raptor strike should be removed all together and mongoose bite should just be baseline or make raptor strike baseline i guess, but raptor shouldnt be in the talent tree.
How are we to discuss what we want when we can’t discuss what is currently in the Beta?