Feedback: Hunters

Jhedozia-malganis · June 7, 2024, 1:38am

Early apologies for the length.

The following contains examples of what could be done to address the real and perceived issues with the Hunter toolkit, and their class tree. I know there are some things coming for Hunters, and can only hope they address the current shortcomings in full. This is just a vision of what I think would address some or a lot of these issues. I see I have some of the same thoughts and desired direction as others concerning some of the ability and talent changes people are looking to see to address Hunter issues, leading me to believe there is some merit in some solutions that people may offer at times.

My reworked Hunter Talent Tree:
h ttps://imgur.com/5AywB2u

For those who play around with TALENT TREE MANAGER, here’s the pastebin links:
BM ~ h ttps://pastebin.com/cHtA3Ccp
SV ~ h ttps://pastebin.com/BvU2GDAd
MM ~ h ttps://pastebin.com/xD1VJjuq

NOTED CHANGES:

Following abilities now baseline to all hunters: Camouflage, Scare Beast, Concussive Shot, Multi-Shot (BM&MM) /Carve (SV), Survival of the Fittest.
Hunter’s Mark changed to increase all damage dealt to targets above 80% health or below 20% health by 5%.
Survival of the Fittest changed to baseline 20% DR 8 second duration, 2 minute CD.
Aspect of the Cheetah reduced to 2 minute CD baseline (Born to be Wild talent reduces to 1 min CD).
Wailing arrow moved to base hunter tree and made much more useable (removed damage, instant cast)
Incorporated Improved Traps 5 sec CD reduction baseline into Tar Trap, Freezing Trap, Steel Trap (all 3 now 25 SEC CD), and Hi-Explosive Trap (at 35 SEC CD). Removed Improved Traps talent.
Incorporated halved duration Entrapment into Tar Trap baseline. Removed Entrapment talent.
Removed talents Sentinel Owl, Sentinel’s Perception, Sentinel’s Protection; if nothing was going to be done with these to markedly improve them then I didn’t feel they needed to stick around.
Stampede tweaked to be better damage over time vs Death Chakram at around 3 targets, or may be a desire choice when a focused burst window is needed.
Removed Killer Instinct and placed in execute focused section of a proposed reworked BM tree (see way below).
Removed Hydra’s Bite. Recommend placing in a reworked SV tree as replacement to Wildfire Infusion’s Serpent Sting Spread. Maybe make work off of Carve/Butchery.
All hunters start with 2 of the ROW 1 abilities; BM gets Kill Command and Kill Shot, SV gets Kill Command and Serpent Sting; MM gets Serpent Sting and Kill Shot.

Talent changes and new talents should be highlighted in BOLD.

ROW 1:

KILL COMMAND (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, GIVE THE COMMAND TO KILL, CAUSING YOUR PET TO SAVAGELY DEAL (X) PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO THE ENEMY. 30 FOCUS, INSTANT, 7.5 SEC RECHARGE.

SERPENT STING (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, FIRE A POISON-TIPPED ARROW AT AN ENEMY, DEALING (X% OF ATTACK POWER) NATURE DAMAGE INSTANTLY AND AN ADDITIONAL (6 * X% OF ATTACK POWER) DAMAGE OVER 18 SECONDS. 10 FOCUS, INSTANT.

KILL SHOT (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, YOU ATTEMPT TO FINISH OFF A WOUNDED TARGET, DEALING (X% OF ATTACK POWER) PHYSICAL DAMAGE. ONLY USABLE ON ENEMIES WITH LESS THAN 20% HEALTH. 10 FOCUS, INSTANT, 10 SEC RECHARGE.

ROW 2:

CRIPPLING BITE (NEW) – 1 POINT, KILL COMMAND HAS A 50% CHANCE OF DISABLING ITS TARGET, SLOWING THEIR ATTACK AND CASTING SPEED BY 15% FOR 10 SECONDS.

TRAILBLAZER (CHANGED) - 1 POINT , YOUR MOVEMENT SPEED IS INCREASED BY 30% ANYTIME YOU HAVE NOT ATTACKED FOR 3 SEC.

POTENT VENOM (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHILE YOUR SERPENT STING IS ACTIVE ON AN ENEMY, REDUCE THEIR DAMAGE DONE BY 3%.

POSTHASTE (CHANGED) - 1 POINT , DISENGAGE ALSO FREES YOU FROM ALL MOVEMENT IMPAIRING EFFECTS AND INCREASES YOUR MOVEMENT SPEED BY 50% FOR 4 SEC.

KILLING WOUND (NEW) – 1 POINT, KILL SHOT APPLIES MORTAL WOUNDS FOR 3 SECONDS.

ROW 3:

NATURAL MENDING (CHANGED) - 1 POINT , EVERY 25 FOCUS YOU SPEND REDUCES THE REMAINING COOLDOWN ON EXHILARATION BY 1.0 SEC.

ASPECT OF THE PACK (NEW) – 1 POINT, 3 MIN CD, INCREASE THE MOVEMENT SPEED OF YOU AND YOUR ALLIES WITHIN 15 YARDS BY 90% FOR 3 SEC, AND THEN BY 30% FOR 9 MORE SEC.

COUNTER SHOT / MUZZLE (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, INTERRUPTS SPELLCASTING, PREVENTING ANY SPELL IN THAT SCHOOL FROM BEING CAST FOR 3 SEC. INSTANT, 24 SEC / 15 SEC COOLDOWN.

EXPEDITIOUS RETREAT (NEW) – 1 POINT, DISENGAGE GAINS A SECOND CHARGE AND TRAVELS 10% FARTHER.

RESILIENCE OF THE HUNTER (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHEN FEIGN DEATH ENDS YOU TAKE 6% REDUCED DAMAGE FOR 8 SEC.

ROW 4:

CHOOSE: REJUVENATING WIND (CHANGED) / SPIRIT BOND (NEW) - 1 POINT

REJUVENATING WIND - EXHILARATION HEALS YOU FOR AN ADDITIONAL 16% OF YOUR MAXIMUM HEALTH OVER 8 SEC. (MOVED HEALTH INCREASE TO 2 POINT DAUGHTER NODE HUNTER VS WILD)
SPIRIT BOND - YOU AND YOUR PET REGENERATE 1% HEALTH EVERY 2 SEC. (REMOVED FROM SV MASTERY AND GAVE TO ALL HUNTERS AS OPTION)

MISDIRECTION (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, MISDIRECTS ALL THREAT YOU CAUSE TO THE TARGETED PARTY OR RAID MEMBER, BEGINNING WITH YOUR NEXT ATTACK WITHIN 30 SEC AND LASTING FOR 8 SEC. INSTANT, 30 SEC COOLDOWN.

WAILING ARROW (CHANGED) - FIRE AN ENCHANTED ARROW, STUNNING YOUR TARGET AND ALL CREATURES WITHIN 8 YDS FOR 0.1 SEC, INTERRUPTING AND SILENCING ALL AFFECTED CREATURES FOR 3 SEC. 15 FOCUS, INSTANT, 1 MIN COOLDOWN.

TRANQUILIZING SHOT (NO CHANGE) - REMOVES 1 ENRAGE AND 1 MAGIC EFFECT FROM AN ENEMY TARGET. INSTANT, 10 SEC COOLDOWN.

CHOOSE: FEIGNED RESILIENCE (NEW) / MARKSMAN’S ADVANTAGE (NEW) - 1 POINT

FEIGNED RESILIENCE – INCREASE THE DAMAGE REDUCTION OF RESILIENCE OF THE HUNTER BY AN ADDITIONAL 6%.
MARKSMAN’S ADVANTAGE – HUNTER’S MARK DECREASES THE DAMAGE THE TARGET DEALS TO YOU BY 3%.

ROW 5:

WILDERNESS MEDICINE (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , MEND PET HEALS FOR AN ADDITIONAL 50% OF YOUR PET’S HEALTH OVER ITS DURATION, AND HAS A 50% CHANCE TO DISPEL A MAGIC EFFECT EACH TIME IT HEALS YOUR PET.

HUNTER VS WILD (NEW) – 2 POINTS, INCREASE HUNTER STAMINA BY 4%/8%. SPIRIT BOND APPLIES A STACKING SHIELD FOR UP TO 2%/4% OF YOU AND YOUR PET’S MAXIMUM HEALTH IF AT FULL HEALTH.

REJUEVENATING WIND INCREASES YOUR DODGE CHANCE BY 6%/12% DURING ITS DURATION.

CRYSTAL HIDE (NEW) – 1 POINT, YOUR PET TAKES 90% REDUCED DAMAGE WHILE YOUR MISDIRECTION IS ACTIVE ON IT.

TAR TRAP (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, HURLS A TAR TRAP TO THE TARGET LOCATION THAT CREATES A 8 YARD RADIUS POOL OF TAR AROUND ITSELF FOR 30 SEC WHEN THE FIRST ENEMY APPROACHES, ROOTING ANY NEARBY TARGETS FOR 2 SEC WHEN THE TRAP IS TRIGGERED . ALL ENEMIES HAVE 50% REDUCED MOVEMENT SPEED WHILE IN THE AREA OF EFFECT. TRAP WILL EXIST FOR 1 MINUTE. INSTANT, 25 SEC COOLDOWN.

REVERSAL OF FORTUNE (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, REDUCE THE COOLDOWN OF COUNTERSHOT BY 4 SECONDS AND MUZZLE BY 2 SECONDS IF A CAST IS INTERRUPTED, AND REDUCE THE COOLDOWN OF TRANQUALIZING SHOT BY 5 SECONDS IF IT REMOVES AN EFFECT.

BORN TO BE WILD (CHANGED) – 2 POINTS, REDUCE COOLDOWN OF ASPECT OF THE TURTLE, ASPECT OF THE CHEETAH, AND ASPECT OF THE PACK BY 30 SEC/60 SEC .

RAPID MARK (NEW) – 1 POINT, ALL YOUR DAMAGING ABILITIES APPLY RAPID MARK TO YOUR TARGET. RAPID MARK IS THE SAME AS HUNTER’S MARK, BUT IS UNDISPELLABLE, DOES NOT GRANT UNERRING SIGHT OF THE TARGET, LASTS FOR 15 SEC, AND CAN BE ON ANY NUMBER OF TARGETS. (OLD MARKED FOR DEATH TALENT I BELIEVE?)

ROW 6:

THICK HIDE (NEW) – 1 POINT, INCREASE YOUR PET’S HEALTH BY 20%.

CHOOSE: INTIMIDATION (NO CHANGE) / HI-EXPLOSIVE TRAP (CHANGED) – 1 POINT

INTIMIDATION - COMMANDS YOUR PET TO INTIMIDATE THE TARGET, STUNNING IT FOR 5 SEC. INSTANT, 1 MIN COOLDOWN.
HI-EXPLOSIVE TRAP - HURLS A FIRE TRAP TO THE TARGET LOCATION THAT EXPLODES WHEN AN ENEMY APPROCHES, CAUSING (X% OF ATTACK POWER) FIRE DAMAGE AND KNOCKING ALL ENEMIES UP . TRAP WILL EXIST FOR 1 MIN. INSTANT, 35 SEC COOLDOWN.

STEEL TRAP (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, HURLS A STEEL TRAP TO THE TARGET LOCATION THAT SNAPS SHUT ON THE FIRST ENEMY THAT APPROACHES, IMMOBILIZING THEM FOR 20 SEC AND CAUSING THEM TO BLEED FOR (X% OF ATTACK POWER) DAMAGE OVER 20 SEC. DAMAGE OTHER THAN STEEL TRAP MAY BREAK THE IMMOBILIZATION EFFECT. TRAP WILL EXIST FOR 1 MIN. LIMIT 1. INSTANT, 25 SEC COOLDOWN.

CHOOSE: SCATTER SHOT (NO CHANGE) / BINDING SHOT (CHANGED) – 1 POINT

SCATTER SHOT – A SHORT-RANGE SHOT THAT DEALS (X% OF ATTACK POWER) DAMAGE, REMOVES ALL HARMFUL DAMAGE OVER TIME EFFECTS, AND INCAPACITATES THE TARGET FOR 4 SEC. ANY DAMAGE CAUSED WILL REMOVE THE EFFECT. TURNS OFF YOUR ATTACK WHEN USED. INSTANT, 30 SEC COOLDOWN.
BINDING SHOT – FIRES A MAGICAL PROJECTILE, STUNNING ALL TARGETS WITHIN 5 YARDS FOR 3 SEC, AND THEN REDUCES THEIR MOVEMENT SPEED BY 50% FOR 3 SEC . INSTANT, 45 SEC COOLDOWN.

CONCUSSIVE MARK (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHEN KILL COMMAND, RAPTOR STRIKE, AND AIMED SHOT HIT A TARGET AFFECTED BY YOUR HUNTER’S MARK, THE TARGET IS DAZED, SLOWING ITS MOVEMENT SPEED BY 20% FOR 1 SEC.

ROW 7:

CHOOSE: HUNTER’S AVOIDANCE (NO CHANGE) / ASPECT OF THE MONKEY (NEW) – 1 POINT

HUNTER’S AVOIDANCE – DAMAGE TAKEN FROM AREA OF EFFECT ATTACKS REDUCED BY 6%
ASPECT OF THE MONKEY – INCREASE DODGE CHANCE BY 8%.

DISPLACING FORCE (NEW) - 1 POINT, INTIMIDATION’S STUN IS REMOVED BUT IT NOW KNOCKS BACK THE TARGET 10 YARDS. HI-EXPLOSIVE TRAP NOW INOCKS AFFECTED ENEMIES AWAY INSTEAD OF UP.

CHOOSE: BINDING SHACKLES (NO CHANGE) / ROAR OF SACRIFICE (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT

BINDING SHACKLES – TARGETS ROOTED BY BINDING SHOT, KNOCKED BACK BY HIGH EXPLOSIVE TRAP, INCAPACITATED BY SCATTER SHOT, OR STUNNED BY INTIMIDATION DEAL 10% LESS DAMAGE TO YOU FOR 8 SEC AFTER THE EFFECT ENDS.
ROAR OF SACRIFICE – INSTRUCTS YOUR PET TO PROTECT A FRIENDLY TARGET FROM CRITICAL STRIKES, MAKING ATTACKS AGAINST THAT TARGET UNABLE TO BE CRITICAL STRIKES, BUT 10% OF ALL DAMAGE TAKEN BY THAT TARGET IS ALSO TAKEN BY THE PET. LASTS 12 SEC. INSTANT, 1 MIN COOLDOWN.

EFFECTIVE MUNITIONS (NEW) - 1 POINT, SCATTER SHOT RANGE IS INCREASED BY 50%. BINDING SHOT RADIUS IS INCREASED BY 1 YARD.

CHOOSE: TESTITUDINAL AGGRESSION (NEW) / CHELONIAN PURGE (NEW) – 1 POINT

TESTITUDINAL AGGRESSION - YOU MAY NOW ATTACK DURING ASPECT OF THE TURTLE, BUT YOU DEAL 30% LESS DAMAGE DURING ITS DURATION.
CHELONIAN PURGE - WHEN ACTIVATED, ASPECT OF THE TURTLE REMOVES ALL DAMAGE OVER TIME EFFECTS FROM YOU.

ROW 8:

BEAST MASTER (NO CHANGE) – 2 POINTS, PET DAMAGE INCREASED BY 3%/6%.

PATHFINDING (CHANGED) – 2 POINTS, INCREASE HUNTER AGILITY BY 1%/2% AND MOVEMENT SPEED BY 3%/6%.

KEEN EYESIGHT (NO CHANGE) – 2 POINTS, CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE INCREASED BY 2%/4%.

ROW 9:

FEROCIOUS INSPIRATION (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHENEVER YOU USE KILL COMMAND, YOU AND YOUR PET’S DAMAGE IS INCREASED BY 1% FOR 10 SEC, STACKING UP TO 3 TIMES.

CHOOSE: STAMPEDE (CHANGED) / DEATH CHAKRAM (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT

STAMPEDE – SUMMON A HERD OF STAMPEDING ANIMALS FROM THE WILDS AROUND YOU THAT DEAL [(145% OF ATTACK POWER) * 7] PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO YOUR ENEMIES OVER 6 SECONDS . ENEMIES STRUCK BY THE STAMPEDE ARE SNARED BY 30%, AND YOU HAVE 10% INCREASED CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE AGAINST THEM FOR 5 SECONDS. REDUCED DAMAGE OVER 5 TARGETS. INSTANT, 3 MIN COOLDOWN.
DEATH CHAKRAM – THROW A DEADLY CHAKRAM AT YOUR CURRENT TARGET THAT WILL RAPIDLY DEAL (63.2% OF ATTACK POWER) PHYSICAL DAMAGE 7 TIMES, BOUNCING TO OTHER TARGETS IF THEY ARE NEARBY. ENEMIES STRUCK BY DEATH CHAKRAM TAKE 10% MORE DAMAGE FROM YOU AND YOUR PET FOR 10 SEC. EACH TIME THE CHAKRAM DEALS DAMAGE, ITS DAMAGE IS INCREASED BY 15% AND YOU GENERATE 3 FOCUS.

SERPENT SWIFTNESS (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHENEVER YOU ATTACK A TARGET AFFECTED BY YOUR SERPENT STING, INCREASE YOUR ATTACK SPEED AND MOVEMENT SPEED BY 5% FOR 10 SEC.

CHOOSE: MASTER MARKSMAN (CHANGED) / EXPLOSIVE SHOT (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT

MASTER MARKSMAN – YOUR RANGED AND MELEE SPECIAL ATTACK CRITICAL STRIKES CAUSE THE TARGET TO BLEED FOR AN ADDITIONAL 15% OF THE DAMAGE DEALT OVER 6 SECONDS.
EXPLOSIVE SHOT – FIRES AN EXPLOSIVE SHOT AT YOUR TARGET, AFTER 3 SEC, THE SHOT WILL EXPLODE, DEALING (X) FIRE DAMAGE TO ALL ENEMIES WITHIN 8 YARDS. DEALS REDUCED DAMAGE BEYOND 5 TARGETS. 20 FOCUS, INSTANT, 30 SEC COOLDOWN.

EXPOSING WEAKNESS (NEW) – WHENEVER YOU USE KILL SHOT, INCREASE THE CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE AND CRITICAL STRIKE DAMAGE OF KILL COMMAND, AIMED SHOT, AND RAPTOR STRIKE BY 5% FOR 10 SEC.

ROW 10:

ALPHA PREDATOR (NO CHANGE) – KILL COMMAND NOW HAS 2 CHARGES, AND DEALS 15% INCREASED DAMAGE. (MOVED KILLER INSTINCT TO REVISED BM TREE)

CHOOSE: BLINK STRIKE (NEW) / HEART OF THE PHOENIX (NEW) – 1 POINT

BLINK STRIKE – YOUR PET TELEPORTS TO A TARGET WITHIN 40 YARDS OF YOU THAT YOU CAN SEE AND BEGINS TO ATTACK. INSTANT, 30 SEC COOLDOWN.
HEART OF THE PHOENIX – WHEN YOUR PET DIES, IT WILL MIRACULOUSLY RETURN TO LIFE WITH FULL HEALTH. INSTANT, 8 MIN COOLDOWN.

POISON INJECTION (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, POISON INJECTION – SERPENT STING’S DAMAGE APPLIES LATENT POISON TO THE TARGET, STACKING UP TO 10 TIMES. BARBED SHOT, AIMED SHOT, AND RAPTOR STRIKE CONSUMES ALL STACKS OF LATENT POISON, DEALING (X) NATURE DAMAGE TO THE TARGET PER STACK CONSUMED. (SUGGEST MOVING HYDRA’S BITE TO A REWORKED SV TREE AS A CARVE/BUTCHERY MODIFYING NODE THAT SPREADS SERPENT STING, RATHER THAN FROM WILDFIRE INFUSION)

CHOOSE: SERRATED SHOTS (CHANGED) / BARRAGE (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT

SERRATED SHOTS - YOUR NATURE DAMAGE AND BLEED DAMAGE INCREASED BY 10% . THIS VALUE IS INCREASED TO 20% AGAINST TARGETS BELOW 30% HEALTH.
BARRAGE – RAPIDLY FIRES A SPRAY OF SHOTS FOR 3 SEC, DEALING AN AVERAGE OF (X)] PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO ALL NEARBY ENEMIES IN FRONT OF YOU. USEABLE WHILE MOVING. DEALS REDUCED DAMAGE BEYOND 8 TARGETS. 60 FOCUS, 3 SEC CHANNEL, 20 SEC COOLDOWN.

CLOSE FOR THE KILL (NEW) – 1 POINT, KILL SHOT CAN NOW BE USED ON TARGETS BELOW 25%, AND CAUSES THE TARGET TO BLEED FOR 10% OF THE DAMAGE DEALT OVER 10 SEC.

Quick comments on changes from top-ish to bottom-ish of tree.

The changes presented would present a significant reduction in 2 point nodes from 14 to 5. In addition it increases total node count from 40 to 48. Number of choice nodes increased as well by a couple. Combination of these changes allow for more variety in utility options, and better tailoring of builds for different game modes.
Addition of talent Resilience of the Hunter adds a minor DR that was present in Shadowlands, and should have made the transition to Dragonflight, but did not. Same can be said for talent Marksman’s Advantage in daughter choice node.
Choice node between Rejuvenating Wind and Spirit Bond sees Spirit Bond stolen from SV mastery, so we would give them something else as part of their mastery, maybe a baseline DR that scales? Choice node gives option for bigger on demand heal vs smaller but constant heal over time to help with rot damage or maybe for those who are better at dodging avoidable damage.
Wailing arrow moved from MM and BM trees to hunter tree where I feel it should be. Traded damage for an added brief stun and instant cast. These changes should make much more usable.
Choice node between Feigned Resilience and Marksman’s Advantage gives option between little bit bigger active DR vs smaller passive DR.
Hunter vs Wild talent, although looking busy, is just health and one of two other passive abilities, based off of parent node.
Born to be Wild talent change puts Aspect of the Turtle to 2 minutes CD, Aspect of the Cheetah to 1 min CD, and new Aspect of the Pack (stampeding roar analog) to 2 min CD.
Rapid Mark gives ability to automatically apply Hunter’s Mark debuff to targets. This is something that i feel is non-negotiable to us getting. We used to have Marked for Death talent i think it was (Cataclysm era?) that did the same thing. Couple this with a change to Hunter’s Mark debuff including bottom 20% of health, and you have the Hunter raid buff where it should be, or should have been from the start.
Binding Shot changed to be an AOE 3 second stun followed by 3 sec slow. Feels like a good compromise.
Choice node between Testitudinal Agression and Chelonian Purge makes Aspect of the Turtle not as punishing or gives a tool to help with rot damage/dots.
Pathfinding talent felt like it needed a little more for its position in the tree, so added little bit of agility to it. I know it, Beast Master, and Keen Eyesight are kind of boring, but there are going to be boring nodes in there somewhere.
Kill shot talents tweaked. Allows for execute or bleed synergies to possibly exist for all hunter specs. Made attempt with revised BM tree (see below).

Overall, this is just a vision that aims to address some of our issues/gripes with the class tree. By far, not perfect, but takes a stab at giving hunters a little bit better defensive and overall toolkit that is not outside of, and within the realm of the tools available to other classes.

I cannot really speak very much on either SV or MM spec trees, but i did take a crack at what a rework could look like for BM as well.

My reworked Beast Mastery Spec Tree:
h ttps://imgur.com/3r6ga1e

For those who play around with TALENT TREE MANAGER, here’s the pastebin link:
BM tree ~ h ttps://pastebin.com/L17mFcm8
NOTED CHANGES:

Beast Cleave is made baseline to BM. With addition of other AOE options in the tree (new toxic burst talent and reworked AMOC talent), both Beast Cleave and Kill Cleave may need some tuning.
We decrease 2-point nodes from 13 to 3, and they are placed where they gate keep us at 2 of 3 capstones.
We increase total nodes from 30 to 40.
Removed following talent nodes: Kindred Spirits, Cobra Senses, Wailing Arrow (moved to class tree), Killer Cobra.
Attempted to improve tree flow and synergies across the tree, laying it out as it made sense to me.
Strengthened Capstone areas to have areas focused on zoo (left side), big pet damage cycles (middle), and execute option (right side).

Talent changes and new talents should be highlighted in BOLD.

ROW 1:

BESTIAL WRATH (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, SENDS YOU AND YOUR PET INTO A RAGE, INSTANTLY DEALING (X) PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO ITS TARGET, AND INCREASING ALL DAMAGE YOU BOTH DEAL BY 25% FOR 15 SEC. REMOVES ALL CROWD CONTROL EFFECTS FROM YOUR PET. INSTANT, 1.5 MIN COOLDOWN.

ROW 2:

COBRA SHOT (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, A QUICK SHOT CAUSING (X) PHYSICAL DAMAGE. REDUCES THE COOLDOWN OF KILL COMMAND BY 1 SEC. 35 FOCUS, INSTANT.

UNDYING WRATH (NEW) – 1 POINT, IF YOU WERE TO TAKE FATAL DAMAGE, YOUR HEALTH IS SET TO 5% INSTEAD, AND YOU GAIN UNDYING WRATH FOR 4 SECONDS. WHILE UNDER THE EFFECTS OF UNDYING WRATH, YOUR HEALTH CANNOT BE REDUCED BELOW 5%, AND IF YOU ARE NOT HEALED TO GREATER THAN 50% OF YOUR MAXIMUM HEALTH BEFORE UNDYING WRATH ENDS, YOU DIE. THIS EFFECT CANNOT OCCUR MORE THAN ONCE EVERY 6 MIN.

BARBED SHOT (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, FIRE A SHOT THAT TEARS THROUGH YOUR ENEMY, CAUSING THEM TO BLEED FOR (X) DAMAGE OVER 8 SEC. SENDS YOUR PET INTO A FRENZY, INCREASING ATTACK SPEED BY 30% FOR 8 SEC, STACKING UP TO 3 TIMES. GENERATES 20 FOCUS OVER 8 SEC. INSTANT, 2 CHARGES, 12 SEC RECHARGE.

ROW 3:

COBRA STING (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, COBRA SHOT APPLIES SERPENT STING TO YOUR TARGET.

STOMP (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , WHEN YOU CAST BARBED SHOT, YOUR PET STOMPS THE GROUND, DEALING (X) PHYSICAL DAMAGE TO ALL NEARBY ENEMIES.

WILD CALL (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, YOUR AUTO SHOT CRITICAL STRIKES HAVE A 20% CHANCE TO RESET THE COOLDOWN OF BARBED SHOT.

ROW 4:

TOXIC BURST (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHENEVER SERPENT STING DEALS DAMAGE TO AN ENEMY, IT DEALS 5% OF THE DAMAGE DEALT AS NATURE DAMAGE TO ALL NEARBY ENEMIES WITHIN 8 YARDS. REDUCE DAMAGE OVER 5 TARGETS.

ASPECT OF THE BEAST (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, INCRASES THE DAMAGE AND HEALING OF YOUR PET’S ABILITIES BY 30% INCREASES THE EFFECTIVENESS OF YOUR PET’S PREDATOR’S THIRST, ENDURANCE TRAINING, AND PATHFINDING PASSIVES BY 50%.

KILL CLEAVE (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, WHILE BEAST CLEAVE IS ACTIVE, KILL COMMAND NOW ALSO STRIKES NEARBY ENEMIES FOR 80% OF DAMAGE DEALT. DEALS REDUCED DAMAGE BEYOND 8 TARGETS.

BARBED WRATH (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, BARBED SHOT REDUCES THE COOLDOWN OF BESTIAL WRATH BY 12.0 SEC.

ONE WITH THE PACK (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , WILD CALL HAS A 10% INCREASED CHANCE TO RESET THE COOLDOWN OF BARBED SHOT.

ROW 5:

POTENT HEMOTOXIN (NEW) – 1 POINT, INCREASE THE CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE AND CRITICAL STRIKE DAMAGE OF BARBED SHOT ON TARGETS AFFECTED BY YOUR SERPENT STING BY 10%.

CHOOSE: ANIMAL COMPANION (CHANGED) / TRAINING EXPERT (CHANGED) – 1 POINT.

ANIMAL COMPANION - YOUR CALL PET ADDITIONALLY SUMMONS THE FIRST PET FROM YOUR STABLE. THIS PET WILL OBEY YOUR KILL COMMAND BUT CANNOT USE PET FAMILY ABILITIES AND BOTH OF YOUR PETS DEAL 42% REDUCED DAMAGE.
TRAINING EXPERT - YOUR PET DEALS 10% INCREASED DAMAGE.

THRILL OF THE HUNT (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , WHEN YOU CAST BARBED SHOT, GAIN 2% CRIT FOR 10 SECONDS, STACKING UP TO 4 TIMES.

WAR ORDERS (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , BARBED SHOT DEALS 10% INCREASED DAMAGE, AND APPLYING BARBED SHOT HAS A 50% CHANCE TO RESET THE COOLDOWN OF KILL COMMAND.

PACK TACTICS (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, FOCUS GENERATION INCREASED BY 100%.

ROW 6:

COBRA STRIKES (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHEN YOU CRITICALLY HIT WITH COBRA SHOT, YOUR PET’S NEXT SPECIAL ATTACK CRITICALLY HITS.

TOXIC AFFINITY (NEW) – 1 POINT, INCREASE KILL COMMAND DAMAGE BY 10%. WHEN YOU USE KILL COMMAND ON A TARGET AFFECTED BY YOUR SERPENT STING, YOUR PET REGAINS 5 FOCUS.

CALL OF THE WILD (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, YOU SOUND THE CALL OF THE WILD, SUMMONING 2 OF YOUR ACTIVE PETS FOR 20 SEC. DURING THIS TIME, A RANDOM PET FROM YOUR STABLE WILL APPEAR EVERY 4 SEC TO ASSAULT YOUR TARGET FOR 6 SEC. EACH TIME CALL OF THE WILD SUMMONS A PET, THE COOLDOWN OF BARBED SHOT AND KILL COMMAND ARE REDUCED BY 50%. INSTANT, 2 MIN COOLDOWN.

SCENT OF BLOOD (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , ACTIVATING BESTIAL WRATH GRANTS 2 CHARGES OF BARBED SHOT.

CHOOSE: BLOODSHED (NO CHANGE) / A MURDER OF CROWS (CHANGED) – 1 POINT

BLOODSHED - COMMAND YOUR PET TO TEAR INTO YOUR TARGET, CAUSING YOUR TARGET TO BLEED FOR (X) OVER 18 SEC AND INCREASE ALL DAMAGE TAKEN FROM YOUR PET BY 15% FOR 18 SEC. INSTANT 1 MIN CD.
A MURDER OF CROWS - SUMMONS A FLOCK OF CROWS TO ATTACK YOUR TARGET AND ALL OTHER ENEMIES WITHIN 8 YARDS CAUSING THEM TO BLEED FOR [15% OF ATTACK POWER * 13] OVER 12 SEC. REDUCED DAMAGE BEYOND 8 TARGETS. IF ANY TARGETS DIE WHILE AFFECTED BY A MURDER OF CROWS, THE BLEED IS REAPPLIED TO ALL NEARBY ENEMIES WITHIN 8 YARDS. 30 FOCUS, INSTANT, 1 MIN CD.

ROW 7:

DIRE BEAST (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, SUMMONS A POWERFUL WILD BEAST THAT ATTACKS THE TARGET AND ROARS, INCREASING YOUR HASTE BY 5% FOR 8 SEC. 20 SEC CD.

KILLING STREAK (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHEN YOU SCORE TWO KILL COMMAND CRITICAL HITS IN A ROW, YOUR NEXT KILL COMMAND CAUSES YOUR TARGET TO BLEED FOR 1% OF THE DAMAGE EVERY SECOND FOR 10 SEC.

CHOOSE: WILD INSTINCTS (NO CHANGE) / BLOOD FRENZY (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT

WILD INSTINCTS - WHILE CALL OF THE WILD IS ACTIVE, EACH TIME YOU KILL COMMAND, YOUR KILL COMMAND TARGET TAKES 3% INCREASED DAMAGE FROM ALL OF YOUR PETS, STACKING UP TO 10 TIMES.
BLOOD FRENZY - WHILE CALL OF THE WILD IS ACTIVE, YOUR PETS HAVE THE EFFECTS OF BEAST CLEAVE, AND EACH TIME CALL OF THE WILD SUMMONS A PET, ALL OF YOUR PETS STOMP.

BRUTAL COMPANION (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, WHEN BARBED SHOT CAUSES FRENZY TO STACK UP TO 3, YOUR PET WILL IMMEDIATELY USE ITS SPECIAL ATTACK AND DEAL 50% BONUS DAMAGE.

SHARP BARBS (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, BARBED SHOT NOW STACKS UP TO 2 TIMES ON A TARGET, REFRESHING ITS DURATION. REDUCE BARBED SHOT DAMAGE BY 37.5%.

ROW 8:

DIRE COMMAND (NO CHANGE) – 2 POINTS, KILL COMMAND HAS A 15%/30% CHANCE TO SUMMON A DIRE BEAST TO ATTACK YOUR TARGET FOR 8 SECONDS.

FRIENDLY COMPETITION (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHENEVER YOU SUMMON A DIRE BEAST, YOUR PET’S MELEE ATTACK DAMAGE IS INCREASED BY 20% FOR 8 SECONDS.

FEROCIOUS APPETITE (NEW) – 2 POINTS, WHENEVER YOU USE BARBED SHOT WHILE BESTIAL WRATH IS ACTIVE, EXTEND BESTIAL WRATH DURATION BY 0.5/1.0 SEC.

BLOODTHIRST (NEW) – 1 POINT, INCREASE KILL COMMAND DAMAGE BY 2.0% FOR EACH OF YOUR BLEEDS ON THE TARGET.

KILLER INSTINCT (CHANGED) – 2 POINTS, KILL COMMAND DEALS 12.5%/25% INCREASED DAMAGE AGAINST ENEMIES BELOW 35% HEALTH.

ROW 9:

DIRE FRENZY (CHANGED) – 1 POINT , DIRE BEASTS LAST AN ADDITIONAL 2 SECONDS AND DEAL 60% INCREASED DAMAGE.

SAVAGE HUNT (NEW) – BESTIAL WRATH SUMMONS A DIRE BEAST TO ATTACK YOUR TARGET FOR 8 SEC WHEN IT BEGINS AND WHEN IT ENDS.

GROWING FEROCITY (NEW) – 1 POINT, WHILE BESTIAL WRATH IS ACTIVE, YOUR PET GAIN A STACK OF GROWING FEROCITY EVERY SECOND, UNTIL BESTIAL WRATH ENDS. YOUR PET’S CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE IS INCREASED BY 0.5% FOR EACH STACK OF GROWING FEROCITY.

SAVAGERY (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, KILL COMMAND DAMAGE IS INCREASED BY 10%. BARBED SHOT LASTS 2.0 SEC LONGER.

HUNTER’S PREY (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, KILL COMMAND HAS A 10% CHANCE TO RESET THE COOLDOWN OF KILL SHOT, AND CAUSES YOUR NEXT KILL SHOT TO BE USABLE ON ANY TARGET, REGARDLESS OF THE TARGET’S HEALTH.

ROW 10:

DIRE PACK (CHANGED) – 1 POINT, WHENEVER YOU USE KILL COMMAND, ALL OF YOUR ACTIVE DIRE BEASTS EACH PERFORM A MELEE ATTACK FOR 6% OF THE KILL COMMAND’S DAMAGE.

PIERCING FANGS (NO CHANGE) – 1 POINT, WHILE BESTIAL WRATH IS ACTIVE, YOUR PET’S CRITICAL DAMAGE DEALT IS INCREASED BY 35%.

KILLING FRENZY (NEW) – 1 POINT, KILL SHOT EXTENDS THE DURATION OF BESTIAL WRATH AND CALL OF THE WILD BY 1 SEC. WHENEVER YOU USE KILL SHOT, INCREASE THE ATTACK SPEED AND DAMAGE OF YOUR PET BY 12% FOR 10 SEC.

Quick comments on changes from top-ish to bottom-ish of tree.

I felt a cheat death in Undying Wrath made sense for BM.
Gave BM a way to automatically apply Serpent Sting with Cobra Venom, feels on flavor since they have Cobra Shot. All three specs should be able to auto apply Serpent Sting in some fashion, and i think it is OK that BM does it one target at a time.
Toxic Burst gives small AOE supplement.
Significantly reduced investment into Kill Cleave from 4 points to 2 (counting Stomp). With Beast Cleave baseline, and addition of Toxic Burst and reworked AMOC, I feel that AOE could be a little bit more engaging.
Attempted with maths to close the gap between Animal Companion and Training Expert. I am sure someone smarter than me could get a bit closer.
New AMOC I think would be a fun ability to try to time on M+ packs.
Changed Dire Pack to be more of a “number of pets matter” ability.
I like the Ferocious Appetite-Growing Ferocity-Piercing Fangs synergy, and think it would play well.
It should be desired to use Kill Shot, and the proposed execute section talents, especially with the proposed class tree talents should make it so.
Went with an overall layout of Serpent Sting stuff and synergies on left, Barbed Shot stuff and synergies on right, some bleed, poison, KC type of other stuff strewn throughout, all surrounding our major CD nestled in the middle of the tree. Looks kind of like an arrowhead or a fang maybe? I feel the tree is aesthetically pleasing to look at.

Thanks for reading if you made it the whole way, I hope i sparked some hope or ideas in others as we wish for the best.

Justsomeguy-lava-lash · June 7, 2024, 1:44am

BM:
We need a way to track stacks of frenzy on the pet without relying on WeakAura.
Mult-shot should do more damage.

Class tree:
Steel trap seems to do vert little damage for an end-of-tree talent.

Holybunger-defias-pillager · June 7, 2024, 2:44am

From my first initial thoughts on the survival tier set, it looked boring…
However the more I looked into it, it has some depth to it.

I imagine that there will be a cooldown attached to the 10% damage bonus for mongoose bite and raptor strike, if not then this portion is completely irrelevant, but it would be cool to have to space out bombs in order to maintain maximum uptime on the buff.

Also, unless there changes going to made to survival hunters base kit, there is not a lot of aoe in survivals tier set for season one. I think it would be cool if butchery/carve deals increased damage to targets affected by wildfire bomb.

This is without knowledge of what changes are going to be coming with next weeks patch notes as well… Just first initial thoughts of the tier.

Raynê-malganis · June 7, 2024, 3:15am

i would love to see Survival turned into more a dragoon class instead of this mixture. bleed dmg from weapon abilitys. arcane dmg or fire from a repeated spear atk. dive in from a distance like dh hunt.

Pakapaka-aggramar · June 7, 2024, 4:34am

Growl icon changed, much harder to see now.

Markelf-zuljin · June 7, 2024, 2:58pm

I’ve put together a list of majority of the core class issues here: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/consolidated-hunter-feedback-core-rework-concepts-for-tww/1870217

We’ve received our second wave of changes for TWW. I’m happy to see hunters brought up to the standards of other classes but it still seems to have a lot of utility that requires playing around to use them. We have a lot of knockbacks and not really a solid AoE stun. These are my impressions as a top 1% Surv/BM Hunter, I’ll update them as changes continue.

Defensives & Externals:

Hunters now have a strong selection of CDs to ensure their survivability in their core toolkit. I’m very happy with the reworked trees from this perspective though there are a few things that can be changed to round out the hunter kit:

Defensives in general should be off the GCD, especially exhilaration.
Ghillie suit is janky to play around. This node should also allow us to camouflage in combat - mages already have this with their invisibility. Some combination of pet passive/play dead/feign/shadowmeld make this defensive almost viable.
BM’s Sprit Mend needs a major buff for rot damage and self-sustain.
Aspect of the Beast should be moved to the class tree so all specs can take advantage of this additional survivability, albeit not so much MM if they continue to run Lone Wolf.
Revise Roar of Sacrifice to protect a target from all damage types, not just critical strikes, to become a 10-20% DR for a party member. Alternatively, move this talent into the PvP talent section.
While a 1-minute, 2-charge Survival of the Fittest would be nice, it’s understandable why it was reduced/kept to 1.5 minutes.

Class Utility:

We received 2 additional knockbacks essentially. The main problem with Hunter’s utility is that it needs to be played around to get value of it which is less than ideal in M+.

Explosive trap should have a toggle in our spellbook between knocking up or side since sanguine still exists, giving us access to an AoE kick albeit with a travel time that is less than ideal still. Explosive Trap could share a node with Bursting Shot to give us a choice between knockup (Explosive trap) or knockback with Bursting Shot.
Bursting Shot being a melee range spell for a mostly ranged class doesn’t make sense, particularly given that it’s a shot or arrow. Currently, it functions like an explosive shot that blew up in our face. The knockback on this spell is a bit too strong.
Hunter’s Mark should increase damage for the (first and) last 20% by 5% to compete with what other classes bring to the table. An additional 1% overall is very weak. Hunters are known for their Kill Shot execute, the current execution of Hunter’s Mark as a Raid buff contradicts with this. This is further doubled down by Unnatural Causes being added to the class tree.
Regarding raid buffs, Survival still is fighting for a raid spot with other melees due to lack of utility/externals - anything to give it a spot. Something simple like “nearby allies +3yd range to all melee abilities” works. It can make it dramatically easier to conserve space in melee if the playable area is suddenly 3 yds bigger on each side. If every spec is loosing +3 yds, this is the perfect way to add it back. This can be shared with a choice node with Aspect of the Eagle or replaced with this and Aspect of the Eagle becomes baseline as many have asked for.
Binding shot needs to be played around to get any usage and most tanks tend to not realize that it is even down to take advantage of the stun. Its SL root functionality worked well when necrotic/kite meta existed but I don’t see it being as strong now. Functionality similar to DH’s Sigial of Chains as a CC is ideal.
Intimidation being a 3-target thing is a good start however, it should be modified to all targets within a 5y range of the pet to give us a proper AoE stun that isn’t random for large pulls.
Scare Beast has no usage currently and is devalued further due to cast time and focus usage. This node needs to be removed or replaced with something similar to Priest/DK’s ability to temporarily control a beast.

Pets Utility

With pets being a core aspect of Hunters, I’m hoping to see similar levels of personalization and flexibility as Warlocks who share a similar pet fantasy with their demons.

Provide more pet flexibility - let us set any pet as ferocity/cunning/tenacity in the stable. Hunter always needs to give up something to gain another perk i.e leech or a defensive (Fort of the Bear) just to gain a Freedom (Master’s Call) while a class like Monk or Pally gets this with just a talent point that they would take anyway.
Allow hunters to lust as a baseline talent, without a ferocity pet. Currently, MM hunters are dropping their Lone Wolf buff to lust and BM is giving up Fort of the Bear + Spirit Mend just to lust. Every other lust class gives up nothing to press lust.
Alternatively, if hunters are stuck depending on a pet for utility, return the ability of pets being able to Battle Resurrect by assigning it to a new pet family so Hunters can be a Swiss army knife for m+ comps.

General Class Tree Feedback & Suggestions:

Most issues with the class tree are noted above already - Intimidate/Explosive Trap (Too limited ‘AoE kick’), Ghillie suit (Not usable in combat), Roar of Sacrifice (Change to 10-20% DR external), utility issues like binding shot (needing to be played around to get any value).

Steel Trap is a dot an awkward ground-based trap with a travel time delay and can miss the target. This trap is not fun to use and is not usable for large raid boss encounters such as Sennarth, Terros, and Volcoross. This talent is likely never taken unless tuned very well. It’s essentially an Ice Trap that does a bit of damage.
Add a talent that allows hunters to use all their abilities and spells while Aspect Of the Turtle is active, Similar to Paladin’s divine shield. Or make this baseline as hitting in a raid soak while doing nothing doesn’t feel great.
On the note of Aspect of the Turtle - this defensive needs to solidify the type of defensive that it is - most of the time it functions as an immunity and occasionally it only acts as a 30% DR depending on mechanics.
Tranq shot is on the GCD still which feels terrible to press.
There are a lot of pure pvp talents in our tree - these should get shuffled in with the other pvp talents as they’re all on the outside of the tree with no usage in PvE. i.e Kingling Flare reveals invisible enemies for 3s after they leave a flare - we use flare so rarely that this talent will never be taken and is dead on arrival.

Survival Feedback & Suggestions:

Raptor Strike and Serpent Sting should be made baseline to the spec. Being a melee spec but not getting a melee ability (RS) till level 13 is odd. Baseline Aspect of the Eagle has helped make the spec feel less awkward when you need to dip out of melee range briefly to avoid getting hit by a mechanic.
Bloody Claws is really unnecessary/undertuned with all the extra kill command reset talents available in the tree. Perhaps this talent could also increase pet damage too.
Sic ‘Em is in a similar spot since Cordinated Assault no longer shortens the cooldown of Kill Shot to 4s during Cordinated Assault’s 20s window.
Mongoose bite and raptor strike have extremely similar damage with mongoose bite tending to do a bit more for ST. This either needs tuning or scrapping of raptor strike. This should never be the case if we’re investing a talent point to receive an “upgraded” version of a base spell that does very similar damage. Furthermore, since all of our abilities are influenced by our mastery now - these spells need a 25-35% buff to still be relent in ST and it would end up being 20-25% of your st damage.
Losing the different bomb types feels like the fun flavor of the spec was removed. Technically the bombs didn’t have massive interactions with the rest of the kit and can entirely be played passively and likely was confusing to new players so I can see why it was removed.
I’m not the biggest fan of how Merciless Blows (BM/RS hits 3 targets) works and the talent in general. It should give us 3 stacks of Mongoose Fury for hitting 3 targets.
Our capstone talents are gate-kept by boring 2 point talents - this obviously doesn’t feel good to be locked out of reaching meaningful capstones as the middle of the tree is a bit bloated but allows for us to choose what we want. We would still be fine if these were changed to 1-pointers.
Ruthless Marader has very little value for the 2nd point invested (35% → 50%). Make this just a 1-point node that provides benefits when the target is below 50% health.
Not inherently an issue by any means, it is odd that increased attack speed is a factor for Survival. Lunge is the only talent providing a direct benefit for increased attack speed granted from Bloodseeker (spec tree) and Trigger Finger (Class tree). Perhaps Lunge (this talent really needs to be renamed) is placed lower in the tree rather than gatekeeping the left side of the tree.
The Mastery changed to increase pet/our damage and provide additional survivability through DR seems very fitting.

In case any talent inspiration is still needed:

Energized Ally - Damaging a new enemy grants you 3% haste for 10s, up to 5 stacks.
Frenzy Strikes - Butchery/Carve increases the damage of your next Wildfire Bomb by x% for each target hit, up to 5, stacking up to 15 times. n
Hellcarver - [Butchery / Carve] deals 3% increased damage for each additional target hit.
Energized Wrath - Uncaps Mongoose Fury stacks for Xs.
Wildfire Cluster - Wildfire Bomb drops an additional cluster of bombs around the target, each exploding for (33% of Attack power) Fire damage.
Fiery Aegis (Same as Seal of Filial Duty from VoTI) - Dealing Fire damage has a chance to invigorate you, absorbing “X” amount of damage for 6 seconds.

BM Suggestions & Feedback:

AoE being locked behind 3 talent points instead of 4 is a welcome change but it still doesn’t feel great to need to invest these points to unlock our base kit. It doesn’t help that Multi Shot hits like a wet noodle - make Multi Shot baseline.
The problem with the hybrid AoE options (Barrage, Bloody Frenzy) is that while they activate Beast Cleave, you are missing out on Kill Cleave if it is not talented, which is responsible for a significant amount of AoE.
A Murder of Crows passive likely would have worked better in the Dark Ranger tree. This proc can be wasted if it goes off on a target that dies shortly after - it should allow A Murder of Crow to proc on the next target if it dies while the DoT was active.
I’m surprised that Barrage was made into a AoE burst talent which may be useful in situations where you don’t need to commit to full AoE for a raid encounter. I still think this should share a choice node with Flayed Shot to also provide a ST option.
Kindred Spirits is not a good talent - at no point do we need our maximum focus to be increased as it is constantly being spent between Cobra Shot and Kill Command. To add insult to injury, the talent is a 2-point node that only increases our focus by 10 each level - making this a very weak talent.
Cobra Senses (Reduces KC by 1s per CS) and Killer Cobra (CS rests KC during BW) both essentially accomplish the same thing and Killer Cobra pretty much invalidates Cobra Sense’s value with how often BW is active (~33% of the time)
Dire Beast being a focus generator on a 20s CD is a really welcome change for it being such a minor cooldown.

Vykos-area-52 · June 7, 2024, 2:59pm

I’m curious if anyone else has noticed, and/or if I just missed it. During my brief (constantly fighting disconnects, being online in the beta long enough to set my bars up, to crash and have all the work I’ve done to said bars reverted and start over…5 f’ing times . Did fetch disappear? I was trying to set my fet button up and didn’t see the ability.

Pakapaka-aggramar · June 7, 2024, 3:12pm

No, it’s just buggy at the moment

Chandaka-area-52 · June 7, 2024, 3:42pm

I agree with everyone’s comments regarding binding shot and tar trap. Binding shot was much better as just an aoe freeze that could not be broken by damage. Having to move the mobs is contingent on communication with tanks and in pug/critical situations it’s impossible to utilize properly. Hunter continues to have survivability issues. Having to lose an absorb DR to provide hero makes this even worse. Finally, this is semi-unrelated - pet AI needs help. There have been numerous times when my pet needs to be dismissed and resummoned because the pet is stuck somewhere or out of range of the target. These cause large losses in dps but some abilities (intimidation) won’t work without your pet.

Redhotbunny-whisperwind · June 7, 2024, 4:40pm

Beta wasn’t working for me last night so can’t test but honestly those who tested hunter how does the hero talent and the class feel? I play BM hunter and after looking at Alpha with no changes to hunter at all I had given up on hunters…

Wardaegis-dragonblight · June 7, 2024, 8:31pm

Neither sentinel nor dark rangers are compelling options for MM. Sentinel adds no game play changes beyond the normal rotation. Its just passive added damage and not really something that feels worth it to play around. Also the final hero talent with the lunar owls makes absolutely no sense for MM because we religiously run with lone wolf active and having animals appear to shoot stuff is just weird and breaks the theme. there is also no visual element other than the owls which makes it really just feel like passive added damage and stand out as strange because why are owls showing up for our lone ranger sniper?

Dark Ranger adds an extra button to our already massively bloated rotation and makes even less sense for MM than sentinel because we are lone wolf, why tf would we want to summon a pet to remove our solo buff? Other than adding another button to the rotation there is no real change to our rotation and the visual elements that should make being a dark ranger cool like all of out attacks being purple and black with huge streaks, aren’t actually a thing. instead the target smokes a little bit for a few seconds, not exactly blowing my skirts up here.

Berthoald-dalaran · June 7, 2024, 10:20pm

Init fb surv: (aoe)

First, I think the thing that bothers me the most about surv aoe is its bland and relatively simplistic rotation that is made worse by the cds that are on every aoe attack you use. When those things are on cd you are pressing ST attacks which feels really, really bad. I remember surv aoe being quite quick and exciting but now it seems depressing, waiting for cds.
Second, answer me this: Do i take serpent sting in the class tree or not? Because 30% is still questionable and again, having to press ST attacks to apply SS. Not to mention that hydra’s bite is locked behind the SS talent and too expensive to ever be a viable option.
I was disappointed to see that nothing changed with the SV tree. The same issues that were present last expansion are still there such as why we must go all the way to ST side of the tree (right) to pick up Tactical Advantage which increases bomb dmg. Another issue is why wildfire infusion is locked behind a unnecessary 2 point viper’s venom. This is obviously a problem for players who want to take SS on the class tree.
Honestly, if you swapped flanking strike and TA for Viper’s Venom and Quick Shot, this entire problem would solve itself. Also, Ranger and Explosives Expert should be swapped as well.
Now to a rather large issue, that is the hero talents. Now, with other classes I have noticed a common trend across all of them: that is the middle talents are very lackluster and commonly just copy/pasted from old talents. In sentinel, this pretty much is still true. Most of the talents are boring or passive that could easily be baked into the spec tree. Second, and probably the biggest issue I have with Sentinel is its entire theme. How does owls and arcane damage have anything to do with survival which has bombs and physical attacks? I do not know whether to believe that no one has any good ideas for SV or that its a forced expansion on the “sentinel” talent in the class tree which was received rather argumentatively.
To further the issue, there really isn’t any exciting in the talents except for the owl that comes out and does some damage every 15 seconds. Even then, it took me a few times just to see the graphic and hardly noticed the damage increase.
In closing, I was hoping to see some changes with the spec, and something with the hero talents that brought excitement back to the spec. However, nothing I experienced would lend me to want a return, and even worse, I was already disinterested with its playstyle during my testing time. The only thing I am happy about is to see that bombs are still a major part of the spec.

Retñuh-azgalor · June 8, 2024, 12:28pm

A Few things that I think would be cool to see for the class tree is:

1: Get rid of Sentinel Owl and replace it with something actually useful like Wild Spirts or Resonating Arrow

2: Get rid of Steel Trap and add Soulforge Embers.

3: Move Wailing Arrow to the class tree.

4: Make Binding Shot actually useful. Make it a instant root or a actual aoe stun.

5: Tune Barrage to be a little better than it is or just get rid of it. That goes for all underused talents really. It sucks to see talents just sit there and never be used

Bonus BM change

Consider making Multishot and Beast Cleave baseline so we can have some aoe in our single target build. Then just add talents to the tree to support Beast Cleave so there is a difference between our ST and AoE builds. Its always nice to have a little AoE, but have nothing when we are in our ST build just feels a little bad

Heliôs-frostmourne · June 8, 2024, 1:45pm

Please no I beg

But this I absolutely hope is coming with the rework next week

Mohz-kiljaeden · June 8, 2024, 4:23pm

I dueled with Mm Sentinel Vs MM Dark Ranger and compared to sentinel passive damage, black arrow felt extremely underwhelming.

Berthoald-dalaran · June 8, 2024, 7:34pm

Sentinel is purposefully overtuned to make it feel better since its theme doesnt match any of the specs. Dont be surprised that it stays that way.

Angren-aegwynn · June 8, 2024, 8:19pm

I’d really like to see a recolor of Flayed Shot in black/dark gray for black arrow. That spell effect had a nice oomph.

Ghonhir-living-flame · June 8, 2024, 9:46pm

The summoned guardian does not remove lone wolf, at least it didn’t when I tried

Rezz-malganis · June 8, 2024, 10:02pm

Dark Ranger Hero talents are extremely lacking in both output and fantasy, but I care more about the ladder.

When you bust as shadow priest or fire mage in TWW you see can see it, which feels great.

MM dark ranger has one new visual for black arrow that is WAY WAY WAY worse than wailing arrow. Where are the visuals??? where is the fantasy??? I want to feel like a dark ranger!

I really hope more is coming for spell visuals for MM dark ranger, otherwise it’s a complete failure of one of the best thematic class combos in all fantasy. Super sad right now.

Glane-benediction · June 9, 2024, 2:24am

My main feedback here is in relation to the Sentinel hero talents for MM and SV.
First, having any hero talent that makes your spec better without changing behavior at all, feels AWFUL. Like if the intent was to make the spec better without changing playstyle at all, why not do it in the form of flat stat buffs so it doesnt feel like the dmg you are gaining from your hero talents is randomized?

Second, the only feasible way to change behavior to min/max the dmg you are gaining from this new source of power, is by delaying whatever spell procs your Lunar storm.
The result of this, is that this proc spell (Rapid Fire/Wildfire Bomb) are held hostage for a certain amount of time if the pack is being grouped, or the pack is about to die.
This 15sec CD on Lunar storm feels awful in the same way that Salvo felt before it was changed to an active ability rather than a passive proc with a hard CD. Now as a player, you can just close your eyes and pretend this doesnt matter, but its very hard to do that when your lunar storm owl is just floating above nothing casting doing no dmg.

Lastly, the overall design of Sentinel feels incredibly lazy. Which, I realize is a harsh indictment of the hero tree. However, In comparison to Dark Ranger which takes into account the fact that it wants you to cast Black Arrow in both AOE and ST, has a CD reduction if its target dies, gives you main spender ability charges, and gives you flat dmg buffs, Sentinel looks like something that was passed off to an intern to design.

There is almost no playstyle interaction with the Sentinel tree, and what little interaction there is, feels like its holding abilities hostage. Then the damage that you get from the tree, feels very borrowed, and doesnt feel like it belongs in a spec like MM. It feels considerably better in survival simply because casting multiple multishots in a row doesnt fit with the way the MM plays naturally, but casting Butchery multiple times in a row IS how survival plays naturally. Therefore, symphonic arsenal feels dramatically better. However, the result of this is that it incentivizes you to stack up sentinel before using your butchery charges, which is unnatural.

Boosting a specs aoe potential by adding a randomly passive stacking debuff that explodes feels like we were cheated out of getting a new interesting active ability like Black arrow, then ontop of that it COMPETES with black arrow.

So any chance that hunter might have gotten to have some new, interesting, low CD, playstyle changing, ability, is gone.

That is upsetting.