OHHH I see… I see… Steady shot, is replaced by Cobra shot, when the player spec’s as Beast Mastery in Retail. Thats why Beast Mastery doesnt have it.
Sad they reverted the msv changes. While they were not perfect, they were at least change and could have been modified in the future. Now blizz wont touch them for another xpac while msv suffers.
The Survival changes that were reverted this build were reverted for the good of the spec.
The FS change had various problematic elements, and the Mongoose Fury change had little impact.
These things being reverted is a positive. The version that Flanking Strike was reverted to was itself a change from how the spell works on live, and a very good one at that.
4 Likes
I think you’re confused? They didn’t revert the rework at all. They reverted the Flanking Strike passive version to the active spender which is preferred.
1 Like
Can we make Beast master Hunter do some decent damage in pvp please? It feels like pets aren’t doing anything. Meanwhile Fury warriors are chunking 4-5mil health in 1-2 globals. Please buff beast master
1 Like
Implosive trap replaced Steel Trap which is an even more useless button (Ice trap with minor damage) than DC. Finally having an AoE stop is absolutely massive for Hunters in M+ as the only classes lacking one (Besides maybe rouge/DH Meta). DC has 0 interaction with the hunter kit, was bearly was a focus generator, and a minor damage amp. Good riddance. The poor developers have to once again filter through bad takes and arguing between Hunters to find meaningful feedback. I’ll leave the conversation at that as I don’t want to add to the spam.
On that note, the Bloody Claws change is good. I originally proposed that MB increased the MF window by ~1 sec. While I’m not crazy about another KC interaction, I suppose it works (with the benefit of every MB being guaranteed to be buffed by Tip) while hitting 2 birds with one stone as the former Bloody Claws was never worth talenting into. My slight concern is how MB has basically now turned into a 2 talent node while still not being dramatically stronger than RS and it’s still competing with every other spell in the window. RS and MB need a ~25-35% buff to be more relevant in ST since everything is increased by our mastery now.
The Mongoose Fury window has remained at 10s (from last week) instead of being reverted to 14s, hopefully, this is a mistake/bug as it was not mentioned in the blue post.
Implosive trap being changed from 1.5m to 1m is a very welcome change. It just leaves us lacking a viable raid buff in both raid and M+.
I see 3 possible solutions - Hunter’s Mark should increase damage for the first and last 20% by 5% and has a 20y or larger radius as well. It’s awkward trying to tab target to the priority mob in M+ and currently, by the time you do apply Hunter’s Mark, the mob already is below 90% HP which devalues it in M+ significantly while taking up a GCD to apply it. Yes, I know it should be applied prior to combat but that isn’t always an option with chain-pulling tanks/dungeons. Furthermore, Hunter’s Mark is meaningless on encounters that start below 100% health or have thresholds like Razageth Phase 1 that devalue the buff to a progression tool more than a buff.
T̶h̶e̶ s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ I̶ p̶r̶o̶p̶o̶s̶e̶ t̶o̶ H̶u̶n̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ s̶y̶n̶e̶r̶g̶i̶z̶e̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ M̶+̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶s̶, a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ t̶h̶e̶m̶ t̶o̶ p̶r̶o̶v̶i̶d̶e̶ a̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ b̶u̶f̶f̶ d̶e̶p̶e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ o̶n̶ t̶h̶e̶ t̶y̶p̶e̶ o̶f̶ p̶e̶t̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ t̶h̶e̶y̶ h̶a̶v̶e̶ o̶u̶t̶ -̶
- F̶e̶r̶o̶c̶i̶t̶y̶ p̶r̶o̶v̶i̶d̶e̶s̶ t̶h̶e̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ 3̶%̶ c̶r̶i̶t̶, h̶a̶s̶t̶e̶, a̶n̶d̶ l̶e̶e̶c̶h̶.
- T̶e̶n̶a̶c̶i̶t̶y̶ p̶r̶o̶v̶i̶d̶e̶s̶ t̶h̶e̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ 3̶%̶ v̶e̶r̶s̶ a̶n̶d̶ m̶a̶x̶ H̶P̶ i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶a̶s̶e̶d̶.
- C̶u̶n̶n̶i̶n̶g̶ p̶r̶o̶v̶i̶d̶e̶s̶ t̶h̶e̶ g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ 4̶%̶ s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶, a̶v̶o̶i̶d̶a̶n̶c̶e̶, a̶n̶d̶ i̶n̶c̶r̶e̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ m̶a̶x̶ a̶t̶t̶a̶c̶k̶ r̶a̶n̶g̶e̶/s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶.
I doubt we get this though as this might be seen as multiple raid buffs given Pally’s recent double raid buff removal. Also looking through the Monk’s tree, they lose their technically triple raid buff of mystic touch and 2 auras.
Alternatively, just a flat 1 hour crit chance + damage buff but that’s not as exciting as we still have to keep a button on our bar to enable it so maybe an aura named ‘Hunting Pack’ for the pet and hunter works.
I’m still not a fan of how Merciless Blows (BM/RS hits 3 targets) works. This talent is trying to shoehorn a ST button (RS/MB) into the AoE rotation instead of MB/RS being a filler button. It adds clunkiness to the rotation. If it remains as is, it should give us 1 stack of Mongoose Fury per target hit.
Bombardier is contributing towards the spec’s GCD Bloat, specifically the Explosive Shots at the end of CA. Perhaps we send those explosive shots somewhere in the CA window, maybe every 5s automatically after the initial hit.
With pets being a core aspect of Hunters, I’d hope they’re not a neglected part of this rework:
- Provide more pet flexibility - let us set any pet as ferocity/cunning/tenacity in the stable.
- Allow hunters to lust as a baseline talent. Currently, MM hunters are dropping their Lone Wolf buff to lust and BM/Survival is giving up Fort of the Bear (+ Spirit Mend for BM) to lust. Every other lust class gives up nothing to press lust.
- Alternatively, if hunters are stuck depending on a pet for utility, return the ability of pets being able to Battle Resurrect by assigning it to Tenacity/Cunning pets.
Ghillie suit is janky to play around. This node should also allow us to camouflage in combat - mages already have this with their invisibility.
Revise Roar of Sacrifice to protect a target from all damage types, not just critical strikes, to become a 10% DR for a party member. Alternatively, move this talent into the PvP talent section, our class tree is bloated with PvP talents that bring no value in PvE.
My full thoughts and feedback are below:
27 Likes
You clearly have not been paying any attention. FS last week was very bad and everyone hated it. They reverted back to way it was 2 weeks ago.
8 Likes
So then why couldn’t they have just reworked Death Chakram to apply shackles and snare all enemies hit? It just sounds like you want Death Chakram removed for the sake of removing it.
Additionally, why would we introduce an AoE knock back like this, which could lead to situations that are inherently unpredictable? Since the direction that mobs are knocked back could social aggro other packs, and lead to a wipe… Not only that, just because enemies are knocked up, doesn’t mean they cannot attack you, as WoW has a lovely NPC cheat mechanic that’s is known as Z axis targeting, that has been in the game since, 2004. Which if you don’t know what that is, it means enemies can hit you while they’re above or below you, even though the floor.
Like wise, I’m not sure why someone would want to rely on that? Especially given that we already have an AoE stop with “Binding Shot”? And arguably, you could spec for “Tar Trap” with “Entrapment”, which roots all enemies for 4 seconds, and you acquire those much much earlier. It makes High Explosive and Implosive trap underwhelming as a capstone. In fact, it doesn’t really feel like a capstone that’s particularly interesting. It just feels like something they threw in there, because they removed an ability so they had to replace it with something.
Which then leads me to this, why couldn’t they have just reworked tar trap to have the aspects of the High Explosive / Implosive trap? Or better yet, just make it a choice key stone, where you can either take tar trap, or implosive trap, and remove High Explosive trap. Then rework Death Chakram to be more interesting, and fit the kit of hunter better?
Moreover, this demeanor is inappropriate at best. There’s been plenty of good feedback, I’ve also walked back on some of things that I’ve said when I know I’m wrong, or even corrected myself, and given constructive well thought out write ups. Along with, I’ve cited & referenced my sources to the in game talent tree, or developer notes.
Having this high horse, elitist mentality thinking that you’re incapable of adding to spam, creating spam, or thinking your perspective and viewpoints are the only ones that matter, severely takes away from your argument and credibility.
I can understand the appeal, and satisfaction of having more utility to fit the class fantasy. However, this circles back to the primary justification for why they removed Death Chakram in the first place.
In the context of this, Death Chakram wasn’t problem, and it still isn’t. Some people, including yourself, are screaming to the roof tops, making statements like these.
However, we have now gained steady shot as a learned skill. Beast Mastery doesn’t use Steady Shot, at all. They don’t even use it in retail, and it does not generate focus as a baseline. The only way, Steady Shot generates focus is if the hunter is spec’d for Marksman.
So how is it, that we’re going to justify the removal of Death Chakam with the argument that is has 0 interaction with the hunter kit, and trade it with Steady Shot which also doesn’t interact with the hunter kit? Which by the way, all three specs now have, and Marksman is the only one who can actually utilize it?
If we’re going to be making arguments like this, it needs to be consistent, and we should also be pointing out that Steady Shot is now inside the kit, but serves so purpose, unless you’re marksman. However, people, like yourself are dismissing that entirely.
So by a net/gain loss we didn’t actually reduce the amount of buttons or abilities that Hunters have, which was the original justification for removing it. We remained the same and now have an ability in our spell book that does less damage, does not buff our damage by 10%, and doesn’t generate focus, unless you spec marksman and choose “improved steady shot.”
Again, as aforementioned, why not just rework Death Chakram? Or better yet, dissolve that ability into Steady Shot?
Or… Make Steady Shot a MM only skill, just like how kill command is for BM & SV. And give it focus generation as a base line.
There’s multiple different ways they could have gone about it, instead of just removing the ability all together, then giving us a redundant trap that ultimately wasn’t actually needed.
I see the view points you’re trying make, and the approach towards certain aspects. Some of them I agree with, but some of them I dont.
For example:
I agree with this, because we all choose ferocity pets so we can have primal rage. Which limits us to one style of pet.
This however I do not agree… And the reason for that, is the main complaint with Shamans is that they lack meaningful utility as compared to other classes. So they’re a last pick when rack n stacked against other classes. Same thing with healers, their main complaint is that everyone one has to much sustain, and self healing so they feel mostly useless. So why would we remove their utility even further, by giving Herosim, Lust, Time Warp to hunters as a base spec that they just have? Doing this just further separates the need and requirement of class diversity within raids.
What made the early expansions of WoW so compelling to people is the fact that each class was REALLY good at certain things in the game, but lacked heavily in other portions in the game, so it forced people to build team / party / and raid compositions because there were other classes in the game that had the utility that they did not have. But when paired together it felt amazing and rewarding because now you have well connected working machine.
Drifting further and further away from class diversity, functionally and utility, is harmful to the game overall.
All in all, I think we’re being one sided with this, and only focusing on M+. When we should be focusing on raiding, delves, quests, and M+ and how the class as a whole functions in all aspects, and in conjunction with other classes when paired up, not just one particular situation.
2 Likes
You’re a confused child. I stopped reading after the first sentence. One has nothing to do with the other. We already have a snare, tar trap.
Edit: I apparently have to explain it further. A button that provides a 10% damage amp, generates focus, and now would snare mobs when we have tar trap is a terrible take. There’s no reason to randomly change the identity of this spell to a CC that we already have in our tool kit.
Didn’t think that needed to be explained but here we are.
12 Likes
Is this a serious question? A snare is not the same thing as a knock up.
Implosion Trap knocks them directly in the air. Please do at least 30 seconds of reading. Trying to submit feedback when you have no idea how abilities function is not productive.
Because enemies need to move out of the binding shot to be stunned and if they’re casting they’re not moving.
6 Likes
Well then you have no credibility.
I took the time to read your thoughts, then gave mine. If you’re unwilling to forward that same respect, and see other perspectives outside your own, then we’re having a one sided discussion that goes no where.
And NPC is going to do that anyway. They’re going path right to you when you aggro them, and guess what, proc binding shot.
And if binding shot doesnt proc, then throw a tar trap onto the group.
Of course its not… But snare works a lot better and is more reliable than a knock up or knock back.
Not only that, yourself and Markelf are insufferably disrespectful to anyone who disagrees with you, or has a perspective outside of your own.
If you two seriously want people to take you seriously, I’d suggest not insulting people
Or calling people confused children because they dont 100% agree with everything you say.
My gosh, I can’t believe someone disagree’d with me… Let me call them a troll, not read any of their response. I’m the only one who’s right. My perspective is the only one that matters.
This is why people say the WoW community is toxic.
a snare can’t be used for all the same things a knock-up can. they can both stop (or, well, slow) mobs from moving; on the other hand, a knock-up can stop mobs from completing a cast while a snare can’t
also why would mobs be pathing to a hunter in a dungeon or raid? where’d the tank go?
4 Likes
Have the tank walk 2 steps backwards… Wow binding shot proc’s… It’s not that hard.
lemmie just type that out rq while im trying not to die
good tanks position mobs where they do for a reason
most tanks will just ignore you
even when i’m in voice with my tank, they don’t bother despite me calling it out
2 Likes
Incorrect … A good tank has situational awareness, and knows everything thats going on, where everyone is, and what everything is doing.
these parts are not a tank’s job
your own positioning is your personal responsibility, and a good tank will keep track of things concerning a tank, not blow cooldowns to pick up someone else’s slack
telling your tank to compromise their positioning so you can get a mid tier stun is a pretty bad decision
not to mention, most of the time, you want to stun something to stop casts
most mobs do not move while casting, so you can’t even activate binding shot to do that, and putting stuns on DR for borderline no reason is also fairly bad decision making
6 Likes
telling the tank to move mobs around to make your CC go off every couple of minutes is… not ideal, no. unless you’re grouped with friends and in voice chat so you can quickly & reliably make those kinds of coordinated calls, an option that Just Works™ out of the box will tend to be much better
9 Likes
This is completely far left field from what I was talking about. At no point did I ever bring up positioning.
My entire statement revolves around, if a tank is tunnel visioned so hard, they lack situational awareness, they dont know what’s going on, and they dont know the location of their healer and DPS, and cannot take a few steps backwards, left or right, to proc a CC on a pack of enemies, that is their fault, and they are lacking as tank.
The tanks job to have full situational awareness of what is going on at all times, what each enemy is doing, what each DPS is doing, and what the healer is doing.
Moreover, if the tank is reluctant to listen to call outs from a DPS that they’re throwing a CC on the ground, and to move the pack into it, then again that is a fault on the tank not the DPS.
I’ve played tank. I know this, quite well, I’ve also raid leaded as well. This is basic is stuff.