Funny how that works out.
You’re right, Reforged a being mutually exclusive option from Classic doesn’t care about your feelings. They don’t overlap. You might have noticed this isn’t an MMO too.
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Nah. 30gb is a bit ridiculous even now.
If you actually look at the files, a lot of what’s in there is heavily unoptimized. Most of the art files look like they come straight out of work files and aren’t optimized well for performance or space. I mod the game, I make art, and I see this is a huge difference to how they did the art in SC2 or Heroes of the Storm.
They split up each unit into multiple texture maps which really aren’t necessary, and each is so high res that it really makes no sense to have in an RTS unless they were really planning to keep the up-close cutscenes that they originally planned for. But no, since those cutscenes were scrapped there’s really no reason to have high-resolution textures still in the game rather than compressing them all to a lower, more manageable format for release. Even SC2 and Heroes of the Storm don’t go overboard with multiple big textures.
It’s laziness to not have the game optimized and cut down to a more appropriate size. They’re just leaving in all the base high-res textures in there for the sake of it, and most of the time they’re not even being used since no one plays the game scrolled in close to units at all times.
It’s a massive waste of space. Great for modders like me who can make use of the high-res textures, but that’s about it.
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Yep only mmos have DLC, you’re right. Only mmos have patches when DLC comes out that makes you download that content.
Why do you even post?
Yes, and? Are you trying to say that different games function differently online? I’m not going to break down the details for you. You don’t need the MHW High Resolution Texture Pack to play online. It’s the functional equivalent to Reforged. This is an actual fact.
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In theory this is possible for singleplayer, but definitely not for multiplayer. Or at least, you can’t use LITERALLY all of Blizzard’s HD graphics in an SD map. As far as my knowledge goes, there is no functional difference between SD and HD graphics, they just have the two modes that can switch which vanilla graphic set is being used.
Anyway, you couldn’t use literally the entire HD graphics set because maps online are limited to about 100MBs or so. It should in theory be possible to use “HD” graphics in SD mode though, since the only actual distinction between the two is map/mod-based (whether a map maker wants to consider a model HD or SD for their internal file structure) and not on a per-model basis IIRC (as in there’s no difference in architecture between SD and HD models other than SD models are just “lower” quality).
Wow, someone else recently made their own thread about this AND brought attention to many of the past threads about this. I didn’t realize there were this many:
26gigabyte for a 2g game -
Blizzard you need to roll back this update!
It's downloading, even though I didn't buy it
Why am I still being forced to download GBs of Reforged assets?
I didn't buy Reforged. Why is it forced on me, and where is my classic client?
Forced to download reforged?
Reforged is a forced downgrade for classic users - #153 by DrSuperGood-1327
Of course that doesn’t count all the people that agree but have not made a thread about this or don’t use this website, or all the news articles that mention this as a criticism. Clearly this isn’t just some “dumb” complaint. A lot of people agree about this, even if at the same time many people don’t care.
That at least partially explains why they take up so much space. But yes, all the more reason why it’s a waste of space.
That answers that then. So then, going back to your original post, you’re saying that people who didn’t buy Reforged can play custom maps in HD mode (with Reforged assets) due to still having the Reforged assets downloaded? Again that seems like a big loophole and even less reason to buy Reforged. But if that’s the case, then to satisfy both sides, they just need to have the Reforged assets be an optional download, so people who want to play HD maps without buying Reforged still can, and people who don’t just wouldn’t be able to play them. They could even have an error message for people who still try like “You need to download Reforged data to play HD maps.”
Look man, no one’s forcing you to reply back. Yes, it can get frustrating when you think your view is so obivously right and you can’t see it the other way. This is what happens when you have 2 people with opposing views both sticking to their side. But I feel that those new responses you made could use rebutting:
Dude, they were in fact patching it in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Yes, that same game back from 2003. They didn’t add Reforged graphics, or the new UI, but they were updating it just fine. Those are relatively modern years. A game doesn’t need to meet your or Blizzard’s definition of “modern” just to exist and be played.
I understand that if you updated the graphics and forced that onto original Xbox users, the size would go up. This is exactly what Blizzard did to WC3, and exactly what I’m arguing against… Again, this is not what happens to original Xbox users.
“It’s what it is” isn’t an excuse for anything. It’s just stating the obvious and the whole reason for this thread’s existence (and many others). Imagine Blizzard trying to defend a poorly made game by saying “It’s what it is”. Better yet, imagine if they stayed true to that and never updated the game again. Yeah, that doesn’t work with consumers.
The game got plenty of patches from 2002 - 2012. Then it got more starting in 2016. All without drastically increasing the size. But then in 2020 Reforged came out and the size skyrocketed compared to past patches. That’s just it, it wasn’t gradual in this case. The game exponentially increased in size with one patch. That rocks the boat harder than a gradual increase.
You act like it’s impossible to implement. It’s not. Assuming such things is how the status quo gets enforced rather than change for the better. Again I will tell you that it’s technically feasible that two players of a game don’t need the same graphics/texture pack installed in order to play with each other. One player would just be seeing different graphics/textures is all. Even for maps/missions, people without them installed just wouldn’t be able to play them. This has been done in other games, sometimes even with fan-made mods. UntamedLoli posted an example.
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[quote=“Satan915-1871, post:61, topic:24365”] so people who want to play HD maps without buying Reforged still can, and people who don’t just wouldn’t be able to play them.
[/quote]
While I haven’t personally tried, I doubt this is possible.
Anyone who didn’t buy reforged is just forced to download 28 gb of assets they can’t use just because Blizzard decided that Reforged will be one singular client with all of its assets locked away until you pay up for it. This is a huge burden for those of us who did not buy Reforged and simply want to enjoy WC3 as it was with the SD graphics and a regular 1.3gb client.
I was referring to this:
But if this is already the case or you can’t use the the HD assets anyway, then why would you have to redownload all the HD assets, other than custom models? The solution would just be to not have SD only players download the HD assets other than custom models.
Imagine being so disingenuous you think I’m referring to them changing units hp and not them making HD textures for every unit in the game…
You’re a joke.
Imagine trying to move the goal posts from how 26gbs is apparently too big in 2020 to “well it could have been made better”
Comparing a texture pack to a game with updated menus, campaign, etc.
Imagine using threads posted on this forum as an example of this being an issue when said people on this forum like your posts and think you’re making good points LOL
Those things that don’t functionally change by enabling Reforged? Because it’s the exact same as a texture pack? Imagine arguing against a game and/or Battle.net being improved.
Where did I argue against a game and/or battle net being improved?
I argued that 26gigs isn’t too big in this day and age. If you want to argue about whether files themselves could be improved then we can argue about that.
Some parts are required, some aren’t. It will just cause problems to have some players with half the files, and 26gigs in this day and age, again, isn’t a big deal.
26GB of game these days are used mostly for graphic, sounds videos and so on. If you want to play a game with good graphic, nice shaders and so on, well, 20-30GB seems to be the standard.
Now, imagine you are playing Minesweeper and suddenly 30GB of your hard disk are occupied by 30 files of 1GB each that are basically 30 huge single color bitmaps. Think it’s stupid?
This is EXACTLY what all the reforged material is for EVERYONE who is not playing reforged, but just Warcraft 3. Still thinking it’s stupid?
Well, you could also say “ok, you install the game, then you can just remove the material you don’t need, Blizzard gives you the game as a whole, then if you don’t like just get rid of what you don’t need.”.
It could be difficult and tricky, but hey, who cares as long as it works no?
Now I ask you, have you tried to do it?
Try and then you realize what is really stupid.
(also compare it to what you were able to do with the original WC3)
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If Microsoft made its on bnet, and added all its games to it, and to play Minesweeper online I had to download additional content to play it online with others then no, I wouldn’t have a problem.
Because those are the times that we’re in.
But I’d sure as hell wonder why minesweeper was now 30gbs and complain about how they screwed up the files that badly.
I didn’t move the goalposts. Guess what one way of making it better is? Not forcing players who didn’t buy Reforged to download 26 GB just to play online, obviously. Just because YOU don’t think it would make it better or that 26 GB is not too big does not mean no one does. Having this option certainly wouldn’t make it worse either. It’s not just me, like I said there are other people who have criticized this, even on this website and in this thread.
Uh, yeah. They apparently agree with me and disagree with you. What, did you think I was the only one who felt this way or something? Or do forum threads and posts not matter anymore? Why are you even here then? You want news article examples? Here:
xhttps://www.fanbyte.com/trending/warcraft-3-classic-owners-are-forced-to-download-reforged-instead/
xhttps://www.pcgamesn.com/warcraft-3/classic
xhttps://www.polygon.com/2020/1/29/21113975/warcraft-3-reforged-downgrade-launch-issues-fan-response-cutscenes-performance-custom-games-dota
xhttps://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2020/01/30/warcraft-3-reforged-is-a-disaster–heres-why-fans-are-so-upset/#96028a06e65f
All those articles mention fans’ dislike of the new client being forced onto them. In a few of the articles, the large size is directly mentioned (especially the first).
The vast majority of the new space is made up of the HD models and textures. While the updated menus do take up some space and may be less preferred than the old menus, that’s another can of worms that I wasn’t going to get into here. While it could be possible to keep supporting the old menus and not force classic players to download the new menus (or maybe only for battle.net), it would probably be more complicated and wouldn’t be saving as much space. A possibly better compromise there would be to make the new menus more similar to the old menus, or an option to. As for the “new” campaign, that could take up a good chunk of space but for classic players it’s as expendable as the new models and textures, because they can’t play it without buying Reforged. So there’s no need for them to download the new campaign either. Of course they should still be able to play the classic campaign.
Say’s the one who refuses to believe that it’s possible and that the example given to you is too different. There’s no secret computer law that every player in a game has to have the exact same graphics, textures, sounds, or (at least for single player) menus/interfaces to be able to play online together. That sort of stuff can all happen client side.
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How does not making someone download 26gbs of files make said files better? How does that make WC3 better? Whether the file is on my PC or not, it is the exact same file.
/yawn
And we’re back to the “well why can’t I select every file I do/don’t want downloaded?”
Not the way games work.
It’d make the game better for those who didn’t buy Reforged, because it wouldn’t have to take up as much space…
Because it’d be less complicated (and already possible) to do that just for stuff that you needed to buy to actually use, rather than allowing literally any game file to be removed. But again I’m not opposed to this if it can be done in a way that would work, just not what I’m arguing for here. Maybe one day for a future game.
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Yeah I’m done with you bye
While telling everyone to suck it up because that’s not how it works, go buy a new drive and it would be hard! That couldn’t possibly be trying to keep everything the same for virtually no reason.
They already have the functionality in Battle.net if you ever bothered to click on Version/Region. Adding one for Classic would be trivial and should’ve been done in the first place. The files are already separated under _hd.w3mod and campaigns in the CASC. If you don’t know how mods work, you’re on your own.
Please, keep going on about how difficult it would be for poor indie Blizzard to have one more file manifest. Tell us how it would break the game for them to remove files that aren’t accessible without a Reforged license.
No, I don’t want to argue with you over improving files because you have no bloody idea what you’re talking about.
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Exactly. Look at your implication:
If I have to download additional content to play online.
Meaning
If I have to download 30GB of Network layer. Fair enough.
Now the implication is:
If I have to download 30GB of COMPLETELY USELESS material to play online.
Can you understand the difference?
No, we are not. Because other games, let you download the assets that you can actually use. There can be a part dedicated to temporary material or testing or whatever, but a part, not more than 1000% of the game itself.
The compulsory download and forced storage of unwanted material is just deleterious from a software development point of view. They couldn’t make it worse.
Also, it is not something like “Ok for playing 1 campaign you must download all 3. You will eventually get there.”
No, the content is behind a disproportional paywall considering the actual status of the game that we are not even sure it will be “eventually” fixed.
So your “times we are in” refers more to the nature of malwares.
Subtly creating distress, while asking for money to solve the issue.
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