Plot holes you wish to see fixed in Reforged?

There are some things in Classic WC3 that weren’t too clear so I thought maybe some new cinematic wouldn’t hurt (well they said they scrapped redoing of voices, but not new voices). So far here are some of those I found:

  • How some Kul Tirans knew about the missing ships in Southshore
  • How and why did some High Elves decide to help Lordaeron and join Jaina’s brigade against King Anasterian’s orders
  • I think the Stratholme citizens shouldn’t be just standing when they were being killed and some should retaliate against Arthas (by МракоРыцарь)
  • How Arthas got his horse back
  • How Jaina managed to get some brigades to agree with her to sail to the West
  • How Stromgarde and Gilneas somehow agreed to send some brigades to Jaina
  • How Southern Lordaeron and Aerie Peak reacted on the Scourge
  • How Kel’thuzad was able to determine that some Archmagi were powering up the force field generators as ex-Kirin Tor (by МракоРыцарь)
  • Where the characters in Day of the Dragon were during the Siege of Dalaran (Rhonin, Vereesa Windrunner, Ansirem Runeweaver, Drenden, Modera, etc.)
  • Basically what happened to the Kirin Tor survivors after Dalaran fell
  • Some interactions or reactions maybe of Tyrande when she sees High Elves
  • How the Skull of Gul’dan managed to get to Felwood from Dalaran
  • More of the so-called relationship of Kael and Jaina to show more of his character development and why he did his decisions (by Lionhearte)
  • How Kael managed to regroup the Elves in Quel’thalas and how he brought them back to his fold despite their withdrawal from the Sunwell
  • Where are the Sons of Lothar in Outland?
  • The fate of Maiev after getting Illidan freed in Outland
  • How Sylvanas managed to get back to her body
  • How Dagren the Orcslayer managed to get to Dustwallow Marsh
  • How Katherine Proudmoore reacted on her husband’s death and the “betrayal” of Jaina

I’d like to see more what you find


That is really weird since the humans were already ahead of the orcs for days by the time the orcs reached the island and meet the Darkspear.

For the first, the manual doesn’t mention Anasterian but says:
"Despite the high elves’ official departure from the Alliance, some elves
still remain true to their former human and dwarven allies. The altruistic
priests of Quel’Thalas refused to abandon their roles as healers and agreed
to remain in Lordaeron despite the edicts from their reclusive masters in
Silvermoon. The high elven priests use their Light-given powers to heal
the wounded and bolster the spirits of Lordaeron’s fighting elite."

It’s also here in RoC where the spell Heal was retconned as being first discovered by the elves and taught to and the Light being brought to the humans. I would like to disagree because Stormwind (Orcs & Humans) does not mention it and the place was quite far from Quel’Thalas. Plus, humans were still evolving by the time the high elves (former highborne) arrived on the northern part of the eastern continent. Another strange thing is how they turned white and blonde over 10k (fast evolution through magic I guess? What’s that sunwell even containing there? Needless to remind that in WcII it is mentioned that the high elves have druids) and how they did not occupy the rest of the continent with their advanced magics and whatnot. I guess, sure, they were very few and only grew in numbers later when the forest trolls and humans were already too many and developed to be easy targets to the high elves.
Another thing is how from “evil” demonic worshipers and/or magic users they’ve become friendly and aided the humans and taught them stuff. Goes to show that there’s quite a bit of a RoC retcon of WcII.
Orcs & Humans says the Clerics use the power of God which becomes the Light in RoC. Healing in WcII mentions the forces of light and purity. The manual for this game also talks about guardians with swords of light defending Heaven.

Honestly, that’s more of an aesthetic thing. They are all sick anyways because of the plague so they the resistance they might put is really embarrassing. They are just hiding inside from both the undead and Arthas. Plus, they are taken by surprise in a way.

It’s iconic to Death Knights :smiley: I guess it was originally meant for the horse to be a gift from Ner’zhul or taken from Northrend rather than Arthas having that horse from way back.

Yeah, I works for the remainders of Lordaeron but Gilneas, Stromgarde and Kul Tiras? I don’t know man. Maybe they just happened to all explore Kalimdor at the same time and place :D? Maybe, they realized the importance of the matter after both Lordaeron and Dalaran were razed.

This is really a weird one. Stormwind was basically indebted to Lordaeron for receiving them after the first war. New Stormwind didn’t move a muscle, at least not onscreen.
I don’t know about Aerie Peak since we’ve got Gryphon Riders in Northrend, maybe they did some scouring in their surroundings there? Khaz Modan was constantly sending troops to aid the Alliance as seen in the RoC Human campaign and the TfT Undead and Human campaigns.

Well, I think it’s just that my friend, Kel’Thuzad was part of the Kirin Tor and one of the greatest mages. I guess, the character knew quite a lot to have at least an idea of what the Dalaran mages were doing.

See, this is why I don’t like external material. It’s like an alternate reality or something. I guess, Vereesa should have either been in Dalaran with Rhonin or in Quel’Thalas. Of course you could say they were not and escaped death but then, where would they have been, having a picnic?
Where was Tirion Fordring or Taelan in all this matter as honour-full paladins (especially Tirion)?
Why didn’t we get to see Eitrigg at all? Was the character older than Drek’Thar as to die before the Founding of Durotar? Not to mention Chris Metzen’s own characters not making it into the Roc manual but those others from books written by others did…

Were there any? I mean, I guess there’s a difference between the Violet Citadel and Dalaran city. They probably retreated to the city and Archimonde crashed it on them. Here is where you could say Rhonin and who else you want escaped.

They didn’t care that much? They exiled them so long ago for good reasons. Tyrande’s not gonna ask: “hey, how’ve you been my fellow elves?” Of course things like, mentioning that their skin and hair colour have changed and whatnot could have made it in the game but alas, Maiev’s bah-blahs were more important.

Actually, it getting to Dalaran in the first place is stupid. If you check the human ending of Beyond the Dark Portal, and use some logic, you’ll realized there was no way to close the portal and at the same time send a gryphon rider with both the skull and the book. The skull was possibly found/taken by a demon and brought to Felwood for its corrupting attributes. It’s a bit far fetched since the world was supposed to be collapsing on itself so the Skull could have either be destroyed by the debris (maybe it was too powerful for that?) or engulfed by the earth or even get lost in space. Maybe, it was sucked in one of the rifts and that’s how it was found by a demon and given to a superior.
The book is not the same one. As Archimonde mentions: “the only remaining spellbook of Medivh, the Last Guardian.” Otherwise that would be silly. If we put the same SoG theory on this, a demon could have it instead or it could be lost/naturally hidden. So, I think Archimonde knows better.

Well, since the characters don’t interact at all, I don’t think it’s necessary. What decisions though?

I guess that doesn’t quite require an explanation as it’s pretty intuitive. The elves knew the prince and gathered around. From there survivros were searched for and found. As for the magic addiction. I really hate that retcon. They should have made it appear after Illidan made fel/chaos known to the high elves. Yes, maybe that meant that Kael would not have a reason to join Illidan. Then, I guess, they should have made it more soft. It wasn’t just magic addiction. It was light magic addiction since their source was called the SUNwell. I think they were able to get glimpses of magic from here and there, no idea how, but when imprisoned in Dalaran, they were not able to anymore. Funny, because Illidan could for 10k years. What they found with Illidan was just a bad substitute. They should have aimed for the Light instead.

!? WoW?

From my point of view. Either Maiev was killed by Illidan’s forces or left to die out with no way to return back or any chance on effecting vengeance. However, that’s not what WoW says… Apparently Illidan thought it was best to put the same penalty on Maiev and then acted worse than Magtheridon so that Akama was given reasons to stage a revolt.

I always liked to think about it that Sylvanas doesn’t have a material body but uses a sort of mind trick to make it look that way. Sylvanas is not a BANSHEE queen for nothing. Don’t tell me banshee there refers to the fact that the Dark Ranger controls banshees. Sure, but let’s not forget where banshees appeared first time from, high elves and one of the first was, of course, Sylvanas.
I remember WoW or a source saying Sylvanas “posssessed” an elf’s body either living or dead, something like that, meh though. I mean, let’s face it. Arthas was keeping Sylvanas a banshee as punishment. If this would have happened, the body thing, it should have been after Sylvanas’ link with tLK had been cut and by that time there were only the elves within the Alliance and those with Kael to possess. Besides, I doubt Sylvanas would have done something like that. It was not in character, even after becoming a banshee. Plus, finding a body would have made the character more of a rotting corpse than anything and to possess a recently killed elf, I don’t know, that would be a stretch.

I guess, they were not part of the paladins Arthas encountered? So, they came with Kul Tiras or something? Problem is, why were they hateful of orcs instead of undead at that time? Seemed like a waste of Light and plot.

OK, now we’re like mixing stuff here. This is beyond WcIII.

Lots of stuff to chat about, Deathwing, Khadgar etc.


For Gilneas is from Crowley that Against Genn Order put a lot of people (that even without that will die because they are in other side of the Gilneas Wall) in Jaina hands for lend aid. In that time Crowley start a civil war that end with crowley incarcerated

So Is very difficult to put in reforged campaign. But they can simply say to Jaina “we are part of the Gilneas brigade. We’ll help you wild Crowley will try to reason with our king”

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Yep, Sen’jin told Thrall that apparently they “were hounded day and night” by the Kul Tirans

So the Priests were from the Silver Hand… I thought they were commissioned by the Kirin Tor in place of quarantining the Lordaeronians

Well to be fair the Highborne were post-WC3 WoW stuff (though we were given hints of their existence such as Aszune in The Oracle, the pre-Naga Night Elves in The Tomb of Sargeras, the Magister’s Temple in Old Hatres, and the evil Sorceresses in Old Hatreds).

Apparently some kind of “curse of flesh” afflicted the Highborne which caused some of them to go mad and they all changed to pink skin and blonde/blue/golden hair. Also, the Highborne were exiled 7800 years Before Dark Portal

Well elves were new WC2 stuff so it’s some shruggable retcon that any can ignore

from Arthas: Rise of the Lich King: the first thing Arthas did after killing his father (and massacring everyone in the capital city) was to run towards the grave of Invincible and raise it to undeath

well Kul Tiras remained loyal to the Alliance and only left after Jaina’s “betrayal”; how Stromgarde cared enough to send a brigade still remains a mystery, but there was some post-WC3 novel that says some Gilnean politician sent in a brigade in defiance to Gilneas’ isolationist policy.

Wait no, scratch this; I guess we could just ignore this one since it’s not much necessary, I’ll edit this one out instead.

I expected some new dialogue like “I was one of The Six and so I know how the systems in Dalaran work” or something like that.

Since Day of the Dragon is a pre-WC3 novel, no one can say this is non-canon to WC3; anyway, it wasn’t shown where they were but it would be nice if they were indeed in Dalaran as some “oh they were just there that time” characters. I don’t know, maybe for the sake of new models? Better if Vereesa makes some warcry about her deceased sister.

Since Of Blood and Honor and Lord of the Clans are pre-WC3 novels, no one can say they are non-canon to WC3; I think Taelan may have been the Footman adjutant in March of the Scourge given his mayoral status and his implied rank in the chapter. Tirion may have been unaware yet of the Scourge.

And Eitrigg (or maybe Saurfang?) may have been Thrall’s Grunt adjutant

I also made a post in reddit regarding that (massive WoW stuff, disclaimer)

Yeah, among The Six, only Antonidas died from the encounter, other nearby settlements that weren’t in the way were Ambermill (WoW stuff) and Pyrewood; they could’ve retreated there, but by the time Tyrande and Maiev reached those villages, they were already overrun by the Scourge.

Then Dalaran wasn’t retaken yet, it’s a huge plot hole about where the Kirin Tor survivors went, even bigger when they were later seen overseeing the Blood Elves’ arrest.

Kael’thas saying he no longer cares about the Alliance, but the next thing he does is pledge the Blood Elves to the New Alliance, and stuff

Not WoW, but the likes of Danath, Kurdran, and their troops. WC2 characters

Since the Scourge blocked off all paths leading to Dalaran, I guess in a desperate attempt he led the survivors to some hiding spots or some coasts and they were lucky enough to be found by the Kul Tirans? Apparently, Daelin did pick up some Lordaeron survivors

Wouldn’t hurt to see extra stuff like the Kul Tirans reacting to her betrayal and eventually closing off from the rest of the Alliance.

Hmm, maybe we could insert a new interlude in the middle of The Siege of Dalaran and Under the Burning Sky where the brigades gather around the Pyrewood coast and Crowley sends in his men to Jaina

Well, it really doesn’t hurt to show them in game. After all, we want this to be more polished in every way we get :slight_smile:

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Makes more sense since they are not those types of magicians. Since the first Warcraft RTS, the two orders (of clerics/paladins/priests and conjurers/magi) were having their own rituals and places.
Also, more on WcII elves:
"The reclusive Elves of Silvermoon ventured forth from the shadowy forests of Quel’thalas to offer their services to the Alliance. Their magiks, so closely
tied to the forces of the earth, had shown evidence that the
Orcs had been defiling the very lands of Lordaeron
as part of their sinister plans."
As you can read, they were intended to be druidic in nature but they retconned that for the night elves to be so instead in RoC.

About the Guardians in WcII:
“To battle these dark forces of the Twisting Nether we were given considerable power and longevity rivaling that of even the ancient Elves. With this power came one grave burden - The Guardian must not interfere with the affairs of men until the time comes when a successor must be chosen and the mantle of guardianship is passed to another.”

The Sorceresses are working with the Kirin Tor
"As with the elven priests, the elven sorceresses who remained in
Lordaeron paid little heed to their race’s departure from the
Alliance. These female magic users, serving as agents to the Kirin
Tor of Dalaran, use their arcane powers to aid the Alliance in times
of peril. Although their powers are not always used directly in
combat, the sorceresses are able to aid their comrades with a
wide array of specialized conjurings and magical effects."

But because they decided to put the two spell casters in the same building…
Arcane Sanctum
"Tutored in the Halls of Magic at the mystical city of Dalaran, sorceresses
and priests diligently study their mysterious arts within the
depths of the arcane sanctum. Over time, continuous study provides
additional reserves of mana and the mastering of ever more
difficult spells. It is also here that magical sentries may be called to
allow the human towers to detect invisible enemy invaders."

An inconsistency in the RoC manual:
"One of the Alliance’s most feared spells, Blizzard has become even more
effective and deadly since its original inception during the First War. Calling
down shards of freezing ice to batter and rend their enemies, Archmagi
have been known to route entire armies using this spell."
It’s since the Second War. In the first one Conjurers used Rain of Fire.

They are mentioned in the RoC manual, not only in the “chapter” called War of the Ancients.

Nah, that curse is what has given flesh to the metallic spawns of the titans in the first place. Even dragons have flesh and there’s no mention of them being metallic or otherwise in the RoC manual or anything about the Curse of the Flesh or the Old Gods pertaining any such corruption.
I guess, the Sunwell is what changed them ultimately. Moon->dark, Sun->light.
Too bad they decided to kill the sun worship in TfT with the Blood Elves…

Hmm? How was then Illidan 10k years in the prison? The highborne were pretty much effective immediately sent out. That couldn’t have been 1200years later.

Not really since it puts humans in a bad light (pun intended). I think the nice thing would have been, the elves spreading their druid knowledge and healing abilities while the humans perfected and/or developed healing via the Light. Humans should have discovered the Light so that they’d have something unique about them, not be rip offs of the elves. Also, the retcon would make sense if the sun was supposed to be the light but you can clearly see in TfT that it is not the case as the sunwell was nothing more than a replica of the Well of Eternity. I wonder what they thought of in WcIII. Did they think of some highborne stealing some Well of Eternity juice in vials before they left like Illidan did?
There’s no mention or description of the Sunwell in the manual though, neither in WcII.
An explanation for the Blood Elves could be in TfT:
"Lady Vashj: I know this hunger, Kael. Like us, your people are addicted to
magic! It flowed through your veins for ever ten thousand years. And now,
with the corruption of your land and the Sunwell that empowered you…"
Basically, the well was corrupted and so the elves were too afterwards developing a sort of illness which created their addiction for magic.

Lol, chill man, it’s just a game. Why the rush?
Arthas be like: “No one will reanimated my horse, only me! Get out of my way!”
Arthas: “Now rise Invincible! You are now worthy of your name!”
So, Arthas suddenly remembered that old puppy being buried and decided to give it eternal life?

By that time it’s not even WcIII anymore and the Alliance is basically Horde+Night Elves+Theramore.
I don’t know how loyal Kul Tiras was in the end as they didn’t do anything in RoC, really but have expeditions to Kalimdor. And we see them in the official custom campaign on the island which creates so much controversy.

Lame, Kel doesn’t even say a word to Antonidas, it’s Arthas doing the talking as if Arthas was Jaina or something. At least, Kel was supposed to be an old friend of Antonidas and a great/renowned mage.

I wouldn’t go that far to say I can’t say it’s non canon.
About that war cry, just a WcII reminder :smiley:
"The elusive Elven Ranger known as Alleria learned of the devastation the Horde
could bring as she searched for the remains of her family amongst the ashes of
the once glorious Quel’thalas. Her all-consuming hatred for the Orcs led her to
Azeroth where she leads an elite cadre of Rangers to hunt down the remaining Orc renegades of the Bleeding Hollow clan."

Tirion: “Oh man, these southern shrooms are neat.”
Tirion: “Wait, what am I doing with my life?”
Ghost of Uther: “You fool! What are you doing? Humanity’s being turned into living dead and you’re wasting your life on constant recreation?”
Tirion: “Oh man, forgive me, cut me some slack. I’ve been so alone out here in the wilds, I’ve forgotten anyone else existed.”
Ghost of Uther: “Get that poison out of your system! Stand up and take arms! All you’ve known of Lordaeron has changed!”
Tirion: "Well, man, I don’t know. If that’s true, what am I gonna do? I guess, everybody I knew is zombying around there. huh?’
Ghost of Uther: “You fool! This is no time to sink in your worries! The land has need of you! Embrace the Light once more!”
Tirion: “Man, I wonder what that orc is doing. Maybe I pay him a visit and share some of this nature nirvana.”
Ghost of Uther: “Listen to me Tirion-”
Tirion: “Screw you man. You’re too late for me to care anymore. You should go rest now, I’ll give you my honour to hold on to for eternity.”

Who’s Saurfang, lol? I mean in the RTS games.

I don’t think so? Clearly Arthas and the Scourge slays a lot more and we also see many Archmage ghosts with Kael in Dalaran.

Excuse me? Weren’t those just Alliance troops?
The player name is Garithos’ Enforcers.
Ah, I get what you mean. But maybe they were in different parts of Dalaran. Also, considering that there is a difference (of space) between the city and the Violet Citadel.
Illidan and the naga shortly left toward Northrend anyway and probably there weren’t so many undead left there to impede Garithos’ forces.

Never heard of Sons of Lothar before. That order(?) is not in any of the RTS games or the manuals.

Maybe they might have gone through a river to the sea.

What betrayal, lol? That’s silly BfA stuff.
Jaina did nothing wrong. To be fair, the Bonus Campaign retconned RoC a bit by showing Kul Tiras was still a power, not to mention untouched by the Scourge and recent Burning Legion invasion.
Honestly, it was pretty lame they had to resort to such a cheesy story in the Founding of Durotar’s ending. But what can you do?
Jaina being considered a traitor is preposterous. Jaina brought what was left of the Alliance or at least a big part of Lordaeron to Kalimdor so they can live another day. Imagine if after the Daelin shenanigans, Theramore would want Jaina dead, imprisoned or replaced. I think Theramore has learned much fighting alongside the orcs in Twilight of the Gods.
Only thing Kul Tiras could do now is stand with its tail between its legs. After such a defeat and waste of resources and men, one would think twice of continuing to support the Proudmoore family.

Some other stuff:

not 1200 years later but 2200 years later; the Highborne were doing magic tricks secretly and one day Kael’s great-great-granddaddy tried to make a magic show to show the Night Elves that arcane isn’t that bad but he just made a signal no. 4 hurricane, and then they got exiled for real

maybe Rain of Fire was more prominent and the Blizzard was just a minority spell so they didn’t have to bother making it in gam

Oh, I see. It’s retcon.

Well, Blizzard required snow from the peaks of Northeron :smiley: Fire was coming directly from the sky.