What about a +2 armor upgrade on the TechLab for BCs and Vikings?
Though I think nerfing Parasitic Bomb would go a long way to improving the Viking’s viability in TvZ. Reducing the damage of PB from 120 to 60 would mean that the Vikings would have half their HP left, as opposed to 15 HP left after a PB… meaning that the Terran player has a meaningful choice to either run or fight it out in TvZ air battles. TvP Air battles still seem to favor the Protoss, but it’s not as grossly unmanageable as the TvZ imbalance.
Making Corruptors more expensive Supply wise would force the Zerg players to actually make meaningful tech choices, instead of having a half dozen Corruptors, Vipers, and Infestors which they are going to have almost no matter what else they have in their army.
Maybe… but let me throw this out here… and I’m not married to this idea, at all, so you may be right… but, regardless, BCs do garbage damage vs air. They do slightly more garbage damage to ground. If Blizz wants BCs to suck (relegated to basically a glorified economy harassment bathtub, and apparently they do), at least they can be a flying super fortress. The same for Vikings. Spell damage ignores armor anyway, right?
In terms of DPS that is false.
The effect of armor on the Battlecruiser’s attack is also important for balancing it against Corruptors in particular.
Again, the Battlecruiser’s DPS against ground is fine.
You have to consider that the Battlecruiser is a tough, high supply unit; so its DPS per supply doesn’t need to be very high for Battlecruisers to be effective in combat.
That’s the main reason why giving Vikings armor would be the wrong way to try to improve them.
The issue with Vikings (if you consider their performance to be an issue) is that they are significantly more vulnerable to splash damage than other air units; not their performance against other air units.
The ways to address that problem (if it is significant enough to address) are to either increase the Viking’s health (so it survives better against sources of splash damage) or speed (so that it can split and reduce the AOE damage faster).
Considering the Viking’s performance against other air units, it is safest to address the Viking’s speed and acceleration; although several other air units such as Liberators, Tempests (whose speed and acceleration are arguably limited by the Viking’s current speed/acceleration more than any other factor), Corruptors; etc might also need speed increases if you did that.
Viking has to be redesigned completely, maybe a bit less range (so less kiting) more hp and more dmg, and take out the ground ability completely.
And even making it a bit more in expensive.
They’re actually pretty good vs mechanical units. Not 1-a good but good enough that small numbers can utterly shred T and P bases along with a good chunk of their units.
In terms of efficiency against end game air units, especially Zerg Corruptors, it’s absolutely true. I understand the Corruptors are supposed to counter BCs, but I’ve watched enough matches, and it goes like this.
T builds BCs. Z builds Corruptors and Spore Crawlers. After a few minutes (max) of flying in and harassing mineral lines that the Zerg can replace within literally seconds… the BCs kind of float around eating up Supply. Their ground DPS is okay, but considering that Zerg’s entire ground army is DESIGNED to be resource inefficient, what does that matter?
But back to the Vikings. Since we both agree that HP buff on Vikings is not going to happen, because of TvT, because Viking are THE only air DPS, and it would make BCs even less useful in TvT, making them faster doesn’t change anything vis a vis Zerg Parasitic Bomb does it? They’ll take one less tick of damage? So what? Will that really make them trade better with Corruptors? The Viper has two PBs. And that’s assuming the Zerg doesn’t have 3 or more Vipers. It’s not like the situation gets better.
Increasing the Viking’s armor (specifically), means that it can trade better against Corruptors, but if I’m going to be serious, I think that Parasitic Bomb needs to be nerfed.
For that, rather than an armor buff, an embassy and good diplomats is key. You need to be able to forge a strong diplomatic relationship and make sure that there is political benefit for everybody to ensure that the trade routes last long enough to become prosperous in the long run.
The Viking is more than cost-effective enough for it’s price. Terran also has Marines, Widow Mines, Ghosts, Liberators, Thors and Battlecruisers to attack Air units.
To be honest, PB is a bit too strong, though I do not want to see it nerfed to the ground. Perhaps it should last longer, but deal damage more slowly, so as to remain a way to damage stacking, but allowing for more counter play.
Someone was talking about it the other day that tempests actually CAN’T kite tempests. Vikings outrun them. A few vikings can basically kill an infinite amount of tempests. There’s nothing less cost efficient in this game than making tempests vs vikings.
Saying blink stalkers massacre vikings is the definition of stupidity. First off, blink stalkers don’t massacre ANY unit. Second off, landed vikings annihilate blink stalkers.
3 storms? It only takes a minute of a guy being AFK with his vikings standing in storm? Wow… that’s all it takes. You make the unit seem even more broken than I realized. Hard feat.
Just play Terran and than cry that vikings are threat to Protoss, Vikings are freaking squashy to any spell aoe.
If you are terran you have to problems, you over made vikings, or you didn’t have enough, both games Protoss can punish this easily.
Talking about stalkers not being good vs vikings, well land the vikings and try to fight stalkers, see how that finishes.
I know you want to sell that Vikings is somehow destroys Protoss army, while some how you can’t defend you Air army with storm and stalkers.
That’s plain idiocy or just a lie.
And first of all, read the thread before posting, we were talking about REDESIGN of the unit, like making it less kiting, maybe removing the ground ability, and making a bit more resilient to AOE.
You’re in gold league. What do you even have a right to complain about? Your opponents can’t even make units, let alone use them properly.
Vikings OWN stalkers… Vikings beat EVERY Toss ground unit at even supplies, sans the freaking immortal. Maybe you should try landing your vikings sometime, instead of just watching them die.
If I can tech to storm, Terran can tech to ghosts… Give me emp any day of the week. You have all of the tools to easily deal with anything and everything that is Toss. Toss has to rely on getting lucky or playing clueless people like yourself.
You’re complaining about a unit that eviscerates carriers, void rays, and tempests at even supplies. Heck, the viking can kill waaaaaaaaay more than its supply of those units. The only possible weakness the viking could even have, even in theory, is AOE.
My units have a million vulnerabilities and next to zero strengths. It’s the most crazy thing to me that it is deemed imbalanced if anything is even remotely effective vs a Terran unit in theory. This is how this matchup has become so one-sided and disgusting.
Units standing in AOE don’t fare well. Wow… ground breaking. Time to change every unit…
That said, no one wants a redesign of the viking more than me, because it is the most broken unit in the game. Well, every Terran air unit is tied for most broken unit in the game, given Toss has ZERO anti air and can’t even kill vikings on the ground. Give me a break.