Remember, if you came to HotS thinkin

In which case you are playing ranked for the wrong reasons. If the games themselves aren’t enjoyable, don’t do it. While it would be nice to be a Grand Master, I know full well my personal skill is not at that level. I play because I enjoy draft modes, the draft itself to me is a neat mini-chess game, I like having the opportunity to make an ideal team comp, and i like that fact that in the majority of my matches, people are roughly the same skill level.

Seeing improvement in rank is definitely rewarding, but I do not play that mode solely for rank bragging.

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Draft mode to me is just holding my breath hoping my teammates dont do anything that sets us at a disadvantage before the game even starts. I always fill as its obvious there are roles people dont wanna play. And Im not gonna start a game with no tank just because they arent as fun to play.

But the odds of me playing the hero I want to play, or find fun to play is pretty low in ranked/draft mode.

EDIT: and the draft takes WAAAAAAAAAAAY too long. It shouldnt take more than 5 minutes to get it done. You dont need 45 seconds to make a pick or 30 seconds for a ban.

There are times when that is too short. Like I said, I find draft to be a chess game, so what you ban will depend on which heroes are good on which maps, if you know anyone on either team is a one-trick, so you can ban them or their strongest counters, what rank you are at, and so on. To me, that is half the game right there, and getting everything right, and hopefully dominating the enemy team, is one of the more rewarding aspects of ranked play. My favorite draft was the enemy team clearly setting up for a wombo combo comp, and my team drafted Tyrael/Blaze to counter.

Like I said, if you hate the mode, don’t play it. But that doesn’t mean it is a bad mode, just not to your taste.

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:sob::sob: Your a meany hokuIve been static ever since season 1 at launce I have more then 4k ranked matches

Just played the following QM game:

My team

  • Naz
  • KT
  • Mei
  • Hanzo
  • Cassia

Enemy team

  • Diablo
  • Dva
  • Xul
  • Zuljin
  • Zagara

So 2 bruisers vs no bruisers. Needless to say we got stomped. Yet another game where how I played makes no difference. This game is just garbage half the time. Its like the MMR doesnt even try to put a decent game together.

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Tanks are represented on both sides so the Bruisers don’t need to. This is a widely known MM rule.

And other ppl make complain threads because they got outpoked and dmged by 4 Assassins while they have 3 frontline.
Actually it’s not obvious who lost just by looking at the Heroes.

It always makes a difference. I guess you were the Naz. You can peel with W or help Mei with hers. Soak a lot. Build for durability. Poke the obj. Zone.

Bruisers and assassins are not interchangeable. Come on… dont tell me team comps dont matter. Why do we need a tank even? Another assassin would just mean more poke! Right?

A kid in middle school could tell you that if you just put Xul on my team and KT on their team the game would have been INFINITLY more competitive. Its so friggin obvious.

So no game in HotS is unwinnable? OK. Maybe its a high level thing, but we seriously are not playing the same game.

Its funny. I have been playing Naz a lot lately and through my first 80 games, I had a 72% win rate going with him. But slowly (and surely) I get more and more of the garbage games where the deck is hugely stacked against my team. In another 80 games it’ll be around 55%.

Its not like the opponents are much better. Its more like horribly imbalanced team comps or getting a teammate who is trying a hero for the first time.

Its like the MMR says “Oh, you’re having some success? We’ll just see about that!”

There was a time when QM had no mirrored roles. That was my favourite time to play QM, any comp could face any other.
But ppl complained so the devs added QM rules.

But in Ranked you don’t draft 3 frontlines just because the enemy drafted 3. Sometimes ppl don’t even draft Tanks or Healers and not because they’re noobs.
There are no mandatory roles in HotS.
And yes, actually comps mean little in QM.

And kids are famous for their immense wisdom and experience.
Like I get it that it seems more balanced, but experienced players know that that it’s not how it works.
KT (be ot both) are heavily favoured by facing more and more Melee Heroes.
Enemy Zuljin is hindered the more the less frontline it faces because he relies on them for safe and quick Stacking.

You can’t win every game, but that doesn’t mean that there are games that are decided on the loading screen.
So yea, there are no unwinnable matchups just because you lose with or against them.

We have different experiences but the difference is within our skill lvls and not something mysterious or the MM.

Based on personal experience, most ppl are bad at guessing skill lvl/rank/mmr-range of players.
Like for someone not knowing how to play well could see good plays as mistakes and noobish (I was often told to be a noob by low MMR and Ranked ppl).

How the MM works: you have a number (MMR).
This number is anything but static.
You win, you gain some.
You lose you lose some.
The MM always cares about your current number. Same with the other 9 players. It doesn’t differentiate a 2k mmr player who fell there after 10 loss nor between another 2k player who climbed there through a 10 games long winstreak.
When you play, the MM checks the ppl who are actively in Queue and tries to create games that are mathematically “balanced”, meaning it tries to create teams with allies close to each other’s MMR, so a strict MMR-range and matches teams that share a common average MMR. (Ofc this is hard when ppl with wide MMR-range (mostly friends) queue together.)
The MM also takes 2 other things into consideration.
Since Premades (usually 5men) are considered advantagous, if the MM can’t find them another team with similar MMR average, it creates a team of solos who has slightly higher MMR average than the group has.
The other that if a player tries out a Hero for the first times, it matches that person with slightly lower MMR ppl, and when the MM considers your Hero lvl as “Mastered” (lvl 15) you’re matched with slightly higher MMR players.

This is how the MM works. All of these seem reasonable and logical. But ppl are complicated so you can see why it sometimes not ideal, but nothing would be tbh.

So you might had an easier job with Naz at first, because you started at a lower MM that began to rise to such heights where you could no longer do the same style. Where you had a harder time.
And when ppl face a tougher enemy team, they often don’t realise that they’re no longer able to compete, just that their allies can’t either, since it’s always easier to see others’ mistakes and lackings (and weight them more heavily than their own) and think the MM “forced them to lose”, when it just gave them a challenge to prove they can keep their (now) higher MMR and they failed to do so.

Tldr: when you see your allies failing the most is when the MM expects you to play as well as you think you are.

Ppl can think their victims of some unjust system, but those won’t improve. I hope you’ll accept this and rise.

Bruisers are not interchangeable? What? Of course they are. You don’t need 1x tank and bruiser as a frontline, one tank can work well. The bruiser role can be swapped with the support or melee assassine role for example, because there are assassines who can be solo laner or supports (TLV).

Heroes can fulfill multiple roles, best example is Uther.

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If I said whats 2 + 2 equal?

Middle school kid: 4
Blizz MMR: 5

You tell me who has more wisdom.

But yet…

The second part is right… team comps do matter.

I dont disagree with what you are saying the MMR tries to do. I just think it fails in its efforts more than it succeeds.

  • Whether I win or lose, most of my games are 1-sided.
  • The concept of a an avg team MMR is completely faulty in a game that is so teammate dependent.

Its like when I used to play Madden football and you go up by 21 points against the CPU and you were pretty much guaranteed to fumble on the next possession. The Blizz MMR seems to have a very similar philosophy.

EDIT: And I never wait more that 80 seconds in the queue. So whatever the MMR is doing… its doesnt try for very long.

You are contradicting yourself.

If games are luck based more than a skill and you are able to do Bronze to Platinum Diamond, then how is “lucky” even a factor? You literally climbed to your own skill limit.

This thread is hilarious, stop pretending you are better and improve yourself, thank you.

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I can’t response to fallacies, sry.

They don’t. You won’t win or lose solely because of teamcomps. Every comp has strengths and weaknesses. Your team failing to play into their comp’s strenghts doesn’t mean it had none and it was a “doomed match”.

What do you think is the easier? Playing from ahead or from behind? Obviously from ahead.
Most of the players lack the knowledge to play from behind so the first team getting an early advantage often wins. This can cause teams to feel one sided and giving the false impression that the teams were not matched in skill or the match was decided on the loading screen.
But actually these are thing that can be overcomed with getting better.

As I said, the feel of facing unfair matches can be just a delusion from lack of gameknowledge and experience.
But if it’s not, it’s good to check if the Queue says “Extended QM rules” or not.
And the game is not really healthy population-wise but the “show must go on” (I just like the Queen’s music) meaning the queues should be relatively low (otherwise even less ppl would play it because they waste time and the delusion, the feel of “unfair” matches would stay so ppl would think they waited a lot for a “bad” match) despite not having the “right” ppl.

It’s time to let the bias go because the facts don’t align with the feels in this case.

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Potentially… Theoretically… Possibly… Every game can be winnable. There’s nothing making this statement true, there’s just the chance that it may be.

When the game says “Game found” and you load in, everything could already be decided.
This statement above is exactly the same statement as “every match can be winable”.
You could say “every match is loseable throu the MM loading screen” and not be any more inaccurate than the other statements.

Some matches CAN literally be decided in the loading screen.

Then the MMR is working perfectly and HotS has never been in a better place.

But really… you and I both know thats not true.

If you think a bruiser and a melee assassin put up the same frontline effectiveness… There would be literally no point to having a bruiser category. They would be just beefier assassins.

Are we so desperate to defend the MMR that we are trying to sell the idea that team comps dont matter? Why have a ranked mode with draft then?

In teams with players of equal skill… 1 bad lane match up can make all the difference.

Even if you had 5v5 with 10 assassins you could come up with horribly lop-sided team comps. Adding uneven amounts of bruisers, tanks, healers, and supports only increases that potential problem.

But they are it’s just depends on your whole comp, because a lot of heroes can fit more than one role.

A good example for this could be this threads:

Just check the tierlists made by pros.

Uther belongs to the top tanks while he is marked as “Healer”. That’s basically the reason why my proposoal about “role based matchmaking” got dismissed, because Heroes in Hots can fulfill multiple roles.

Draft is power in the teams’ hands, but if you think that power means you always need to draft the same roles the enemy did or you always need 1 tank 1 healer 1 bruiser and 2 assassins to win you’re wrong.

In draft you already know the map you’re playing, so you pick Heroes that work on that map.
You try to synergies with your team.
And you try to counter the enemy team.

But this doesn’t mean that you win/lose because of the Draft. Like if you’d win/lose based on Draft alone everyone would hate that mode more than QM.
Comps can have an impact, positive and negative. But if you’d play draft you’d know how little actually it is. And the further you are from the top the less it means.

If you want to prove how good your judgement is based on the loading screen, go and search “guess the winner” threads.
It’s not easy, there are a ton of factors.

I say comps doesn’t matter because I won and I saw others won with so insane comps, be it QM or Draft.
And I also saw a ton of complain threads with every possible comp variation being the reason a team won and lost. Like it’s hilarious that you see a thread complaining about getting beaten by a bunch of Tanks and Bruisers just to see another which complains they lost because the enemy had Assassins while they had only Tanks and Bruisers.

Sure. You can come up with combinations that are different but still fair. Maybe 1 tank vs 2 bruisers… or something like that.

But my match was a train-wreck and the better path was so obvious. Instead of 1 tank and 2 bruisers VS 1 tank and 0 bruisers…

How about each team gets 1 tank and 1 bruiser? Craziness, eh? It certainly wasnt gonna generate a worse outcome than what we already have.

You have to understand that it isn’t one bruiser+tank that is needed, but you need a frontline. And the second can be fulfilled with different roles.

A frontline can be made from melee assassines, healers, tanks or bruiser. That’s why Uther is basically a tank. Heck even some melee assassines could assists the tank as bruiser, if they get the support from Aba/Zarya/Medivh + tank.

Why do you think dual healer were popular in the past?

Yes, I’ll grant you Uther and being able to do double duty… But you are talking theoretical. Uther wasnt in my match. Look at my game’s matchup. Theres no way Mei is gonna peel Diablo, Xul and Dva… while getting tee’d off on by Zuljin.

Dunno, Ive never once played against a team with that.