Internet historian here. The terms originates in the Newsgroups of the late 1990s (or earlier) together with the term Spam which comes from the Monty Python movies); it’s nothing too complicated in reality; basically anyone disruptive who says silly things and annoys most people.
In technical/scientific/formal terms they are more or less bullies; a person who says some chaotic and generally technically wrong thing with the main purpose to annoy people; internet anonymity(or semi-anonymity like nicknames) makes it thrive because they get away with it.
People use the term “troll” to refer to anyone who disrupts the echo chamber mechanism of putting their biased, usually (but not always) factually incorrect opinion and receiving from “the community” the exact same biased opinion in return. “Troll” is a term wielded by the gatekeeper.
To be clear, I have a moderate position towards gatekeeping. I am for policing speech in this Hearthstone forum community in certain cases — for example, if someone repeatedly makes threads regarding why their side should win a currently ongoing IRL proxy war, I think they should get banhammered and silenced. This is not the venue for free speech extremism. In that particular example it’s a little more to do with being off topic, and a little less to do with saying things that trigger snowflakes. But it’s still anti-troll activity that I support, so I can’t honestly say that I’m unequivocally pro-troll. Equivocation is necessary.
That said, I think a key measurement of the health of a community is how well it tolerates disagreement. And yes, dissidents who argue against majority opinion DO want to be provocative, they DO want to sow doubt, they DO want to annoy the people who they see as smug in their own willful ignorance. Because they want to actually change opinions, they DO want “bites.” And they DO get pleasure from upsetting people who they see as believing untrue things. But all of these things ARE NOT INHERENTLY WRONG. They are human feelings, normal feelings for someone who sees themselves as being in a culture war over the soul of the community.
What I’ve learned over the past three months or so is that this community is too judgemental of dissidents. People here are quick to report a post simply because they disagree with it, and they consider any disagreement with particular beliefs to be heretical. And I no longer believe that I can ever change that. I used to see myself as someone in a culture war over the soul of this community. Now I see myself as someone who has lost that war, and is in the process of coping with that defeat.
Congratulations. May you get what you have wished for.
Like how you had reported my thread because I claimed a developer should be fired for creating a card?
It’s people like you who have turned this site into the mess it is. Don’t try to distance yourself; you are part of the problem. When something personally affects you, you not only report threads but also encourage others to do the same.
I still remember getting a comment removed just because I called someone a liar. No underlying messages, just called them a liar, and my comment was removed. This site can’t handle anything; it’s a joke that you people have created.
You think you’re on the opposing side, but you’re actually in it.
Not if it is genuine? And in search of truth and discussion? As teachers might say “there are no stupid questions”. As gangsters might say “don’t hate the player hate the game”. As Jack Nicholson might say “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH”. Do you understand?
I want to know what’s the anti-trolling (the opposite of trolling)? The person who wants to say something with the purpose to make people feel good? What’s that called?
Well, It would be easier to belive that it’s genuine from someone who was relativley new to the forums. However, I find it harder to believe that someone who seems to be pretty intelligent would pose such a question when they have been around for a fair amount of time.
Trolling isn’t a term that is used just in the forums, it happens in everyday life. We see it in the news, soicla media ect.
Why would ask “What is trolling?” other than to troll when you could have simply googled it?
That presupposes that trolling has the purpose to make people feel bad (does it?) But to answer I think that’s just called genuine human interaction with understanding/empathy
If I were so intelligent, I wouldn’t be taking 2 week forum ban vacations because I get reported for things such as “trolling” even when I am not trolling. That is why I originally made this thread, because I was (am) confused why this was happening.
I have googled it. See above…if I weren’t so often punished for “trolling” despite not trolling, I wouldn’t be asking what trolling even is.
This is a “good” (or normal) person because trolls are bad (in every sense of the word).
A good person can be empathetic, serious, caring, “intelligent”, not selfish, (non-exhaustive list…) like you for example, maybe (this is not sarcastic, I have to remember your posts to be sure, but I think).
Definitely seems like a good example of me asking a genuine question then being mistakenly accused of trolling, I agree. Which is exactly the point of this thread, to figure out what trolling even is so I can avoid being wrongly reported and banned because of it when I’m being real and earnest. Thank you for bringing to light a great example of this sort of false accusation.
I made it very clear in the previous post that I’ve been on both sides of the issue. I do believe that there are several kinds of speech that shouldn’t be permitted here.
I don’t think I’d take the same position today. I mean, I do still believe that calling for someone to be fired over the design of any ONE card is pretty darn ridiculous. If that one card is Magic the Gathering’s “Invoke Prejudice,” then maybe, but that’s about the level of bad it’d take. But I do think that there is some point, usually involving the mishandling of the design of DOZENS of cards, where talk of firing becomes more reasonable. And if some talk of firing is reasonable and should be permitted, then it’s probably not a good idea to draw some line in the sand saying that talking about firing is prohibited unless the number of cards involved > X, where X is some arbitrary number.
The vast majority of the time, people who call other people liars online are just speculating that the other person is KNOWINGLY wrong (as opposed to accidentally wrong), in contradiction of Hanlon’s Razor, which should be considered a minimum standard of online civility. So I am 100% in agreement with calling someone a liar being a bannable offense. Saying that someone is wrong, that on the other hand is something that everyone should be able to do. The intent rarely matters anyway.
Even the people I’ve disagreed with most, who I’ve disliked the most, on this forum, I don’t think most of them are liars. There’s literally one I think that of, and I don’t feel a need to point out who. Everyone else I think genuinely believes the things that they say. A lot of them are still very wrong, of course.
Blizzard themselves don’t care enough to implement capable moderation, so why should we mind our talk?
As long as it’s a constructive conversation, I don’t mind not putting limits on what can be discussed here. There comes a time when a site deteriorates, and the only thing keeping it alive is crossing the barriers of regular talk befitting the site.
When someone is heated, they might use excessive language and, as you said, make ridiculous calls for changes just because they’re mad.
Rather than shutting down that talk, we should focus on the problem at hand and not the outlandish solutions. If we’re truly adults here, we should be capable of brushing past ridiculous notions and conversing on the matter of interest, or simply ignoring the thread altogether if we prefer without the need to pass judgement through the report button.
What do we even gain from reporting someone for being heated in the moment? Shall we all act like robots, pretending we are always civil? Why? Clearly, we are not.
I disagree completely.
The courteousness of an insult shouldn’t matter to the outcome. I could easily play it off and write it in the most innocent way possible, but anyone with a keen eye can tell it’s disingenuous. You wouldn’t have proof to report that, though, so what’s the big idea in reporting someone for saying it how it is? Unless, of course, that’s the extent of one’s social awareness. Can’t help an idiot making idiotic decisions then.
