Just want to consolidate all the major problems that we have so far on the PTR, with the hope that this will increase the likelihood of the devs fixing them…
Bugs and Exploits
Angels in GR can one-shot RG on any level (including 150). This is the most blatant and game-breaking problem on the PTR right now.
Potential cow level exploit - when the player(s) get to 95% progression in a GR, they can go to the cow level (without dropping the stacks) and build up to around 480 kill streak, then go back to the rift (without dropping the stacks), and get to 500, which will both spawn the angels and the RG, which will be one-shot (by the angels).
300-kills ring of fire kills teammates.
The seasonal buff interferes with set dungeon objectives. They need to be disabled inside set dungeons.
Many other kill streak buffs are way overpowered (like the 15-kill twisters). When 90% of the damage you deal in a greater rift comes from these special buffs, there is a big problem. The core gameplay is no longer about slaying demons, but manipulating the kill streak bonus. It feels very exploitative and really takes away the feeling of accomplishment when you get a high clear by playing legit.
Nerfing and Buffing
The biggest elephant in the room right now is Star Pact. The fact that they are not doing anything about it while nerfing Chantodo’s and Thorns is beyond me.
Chantodo’s Archon is over-nerfed. It should be tuned back a little bit to preserve some viability.
===== EDIT: See Comment Below RE: Barb =====
Whirlwind Rend is too strong. If blizz truly cares about maintaining some semblance of balance, then Rend needs to be nerfed along with Star Pact.
The new monk set is too weak, both in terms of damage and defense. It struggles even on GR95, WITH THE SEASONAL BUFF. Imagine playing this set in nonseason… Not a single set in this game struggles on 95 at this point. This monk set does. It would be a shame if no one ends up playing this set because the damage is so garbage.
The new crusader set also needs buffing. Many people also complain that its mechanics (or the lack thereof) is very lackluster. More pressingly, the set is just not that strong, in both offense and defense.
Even after the thorns necro nerf, it still works exactly the same as before, just slightly slower on Blighter. Blighter will still be one of the ideal RGs, and thorns necro will still be the RGK meta (assuming the angels are fixed). If blizz is really against the playstyle, then what’s needed is nerfing or changing the Aberrant Animator passive, so that the build mechanic is no longer viable.
The devs need to consider the fact that (1) solo pushing with thorns is very unenjoyable for the vast majority of players, because of its dependence on extreme fishing and patience; and (2) thorns RGK is also not fun to play at all (as blizz rightly points out). It also depends a lot on luck (getting the good RGs vs. not getting them and insta quitting).
===== EDIT: RE: Barb =====
As evidenced in the discussion below, the single most controversial point in this list is the contention that Whirlwind Rend Barb should be nerfed. Admittedly, my phrasing “Rend needs to be nerfed along with Star Pact” is imperfect, as it leads to the unintentional implication that Rend is on the same power level as Star Pact, which is obviously untrue. Furthermore, I admit that I didn’t analyze Rend’s power level on the PTR in detail, and, at the time of the post, was not aware of the various considerations and analysis that surfaced later.
As I said in the beginning, this post was meant to be a consolidation of major opinions that are circulating at the time, not a list of my personal grievances. But after all this discussion, here are my thoughts on the matter:
Regarding Balance - It is obvious that Blizzard cares about balance to a certain degree, otherwise their nerf to Chantodo’s cannot be rationally explained. It is also obvious that anyone who demands the new monk and crusader sets to be buffed (because their damage is garbage) also cares about balance to a certain degree. Otherwise, why wouldn’t we just be content playing the new monk set on GR 80? The argument that “There’s never been any balance therefore balance doesn’t matter” is invalid.
Regarding Darkpatator’s 140 clear and estimation - Here are the facts: Darkpatator cleared solo 140 on an almost (but not) perfect map with 10k paragon on nonseason. Subsequently, he estimated that the build is capable of 144-146. Name calling aside, the ensuing dispute primarily focuses on (1) whether and to what extent Darkpatator’s estimation should be taken into consideration; (2) whether Dark’s 140 clear has any bearing on the assessment of the build’s power level; and (3) which of the two options should be used to address imbalance - nerfing the strongest builds, or buffing all the builds to match the strongest ones.
I will not address the first two questions, due to their speculative nature. Regarding the third question, I really don’t care, as long as one option is chosen and thoroughly followed through. Throughout the years, most of the grievances about meta come back to the issue of build imbalance. As long as Blizzard is capable of bringing all the builds to roughly the same GR level, I’m content. As this point in the game, I really don’t care if it entails massive nerfs to the strongest builds or massive buffs to the weakest ones.
As mentioned above, the debate over whether Rend is in fact overpowered quickly takes us into highly speculative territories, since the competing interpretations of available data inevitably lead to speculative judgments about a high level player’s authority, how to best estimate potential powers in this game, and what should be considered a “reasonable” level that a casual player should be able to do. With all that being said, I do agree that Rend is not as overpowered (in relative terms) as the current top builds such as Chantodo’s, Star Pact, and Thorns. My hope is that all the builds (and classes) are eventually tuned to the same level, which allows them to be enjoyed equally. That’s all.
I agree with all, but they need to take a good long look at the new crusader set too… plenty of threads on it, just like the new monk set, its not worth equipping.
Double check your statements with more facts. How is it too strong? Its not on the same level as SP dominance. Dont give us feels, state facts.
You can read my latest reply in https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/blizzard-please-nerf-ww-rend-barb-it-is-much-stronger-than-chantodo-wizard-before-nerf/4585
why i dont think WW Rend is OP. Thats just a tip on the Ice Berg. I can provide more detailed analysis. I do agree the other points, particularly stat pact comment although that build costs me 40% total resources and almost 24 months worth of bloodshards.
Fun for plebs that cant kill, needing exploits for their pathetic inability to play the game. You can enjoy the season buff that caters for the worst pathetic pleb in this game, just dont drag other builds like Rend WW with it.
If you are good at researching like what you claims to be, why dont you dig up the PTR 150 clr vids and tell me how does the group does 0 damage, needs 3-4 shots ( 2 min) to kill 15 trash, that chains up ripple effect of kill streak that wipes entire screen of mobs, abuse cow rift to spawn 500 kill streak to 1 shot rg and scores 8-9 min 150s on 1500 paragon. 150 clear will be 1 week when it goes live.
If this is not broken and fun. Blizzard can kiss good bye to all pros for this game. We are happy to divert our energy to something else that shows respect to ACTUAL players.
The season broken theme is nothing but pure insult to everyone that studied game mechanics and wasted years in optimizing specific builds.
Ofc, if you actually played the game you ll derive the same conclusion too.
Saves your time of researching. Everyone can watch and comment whether its intended or unintended.
The mechanic is ok, if the damages are capped. Do you honestly think 1 wiz + 3 zdps is the way forward? That the Angel 1 shot 150 RG? If so, whats the meaning of nerfing bone ringer?
1k paragon does not belong to 150. If you actually watched and been there, you will see the group is incapable at finishing it … 95% of the damage are done by the broken kill streaks. Kill streak damage should not let you getting more kill streak proc. A damage bonus should appear at the end of the kill streak ONCE. not 15 proc 30 proc 50 proc xxx proc 500 proc 1000… thats broken.
I think the mechanic of one shotting a RG is a good Seasonal Theme as long as this could happen only with the RG mob type and as you said, only at the end of the streak.
Whether this leads to good or bad meta is another topic (maybe they’ll nerf more stuff to balance the meta), but just as a mechanic it is an interesting one.
Yes, the 300 killstreak fireball explosion does damage to friendlies, including your own hero apparently. There were HC heroes posting that they had died from it.
And that is why Blighter was nerfed too, I guess. With nerfed blighter and 60 stacks on bone ringer thorns necro downs to 4-5 bosses killable in 4+ minutes without pylons and that’s not the best option for bk at all. Also, thorns and bone ringer playstyle are not relevant, it just happens thorns became slightly better option, but you can stack bone ringer and do damage without thorns (initially we had rathma bk without thorns that used the same playstyle if you forgotten).
Actually, no one ever said these change were made for balance. Trying to make some logic out of patch notes they give us as useful as looking for ultimate recipe for happiness in holy texts.
Yea, maybe now these angles are OP but I’m afraid if blizz gonna “balance” it they will become useless, and other spawns whatever they are. So they should be careful to leave the mechanics fun
From what Ive seen the ww barb is doing so well cuz of the season buff . They can get around fast killing trash and getting the kill streaks to take care of the elites. Compare a paragon 1k season to a non season and they are 12 lvls under. Except that guy who is almost 11k paragon. I dont even consider players with that much paragon. WW prob is a lil op.
The only thing I don’t agree with is #5 bug (and nerfing rend, let barbs have some fun finally). I think the seasonal theme should be overtuned a bit (rather than the other way around) as they are now the corpses feel underpowered.
If the cow level exploit is removed it makes it more difficult to hit 500 perfectly at a RG. Alternatively they could cap the angels damage.
