Yes Micro, but there comes point where one needs to STOP and smell the flower, one needs recognizes that they need to STOP and move on. No one is buying what you’re selling. We see past the facade, we see right through you, you’re not here to support Barbs.
Give us more of this.
And much less of this. This is the third and final time I’ll post on the matter. Everyone has asked you to STOP with charades. Balls in your court.
Don’t be a troll.
Can’t wait for Barb Buffs!!!
Because all other proposals are batting a thousand too.
Why?
As are all other ideas thrown around on this forum. This is a FORUM… For those that forget what a FORUM is let me remind you:
a public meeting place for open discussion
So he will and you should let him.
I remember a time when no one bought what you sold either. I always stuck up for your right to be able to post about it without all the hate and bashing. It breaks my heart a little to see that I am now having to stick up for another person to be able to do the same thing and you are now the one trying to stifle him.
You and Free are now the only people I know that have the ability to read past what is being written and find hidden meaning in things… He has clearly stated over and over again that barbs are in a bad spot and need lots of love. How you read that as he doesn’t care about barbs is amazing to me.
Just remember that this is a public forum that none of you here own. You have just as much right to throw around your thoughts and ideas on how this class should play / be buffed / be fixed as he does. You don’t have to like it or even agree with it but you really shouldn’t be trying to stop it.
Everyone should do a little more of this :
Instead of replying to every post and keeping them up at the top. You truly want to silence this man? Stop keeping his posts at the top with your whining and crying about his posts.
Dartok, are you familiar with what people say about the word “but”? When someone says but, it means ignore everything they said before.
MicroRNA: “I think Barbarians need lots of love, but…”
Everytime he claims he agrees Barbarians are weak he nullifies it by going off on a tangent talking about how they don’t have it that bad. Someone calls him out for it. He makes a long winded post and puts in bold letters Barbarians need updates. Then two hours later he’s making yet another post negating everything he just said and arguing against Barbarian updates.
It would be nice to not respond to him. This is where the Downvote and Ignore functions came in handy on the old forums.
Sigh.
To paraphrase, Micro says the following:
“Barb’s are in a bad spot, but not really, look at your solo clears, you guys are fine.”
I want to be in good standing with everyone. Micro has right to post as much as anyone, but the facade is disingenuine. Micro has just as much right as I do. I haven’t changed. I continue to post as I see fit. I loved to theory craft and that will not change, whether I’m right or wrong. I’m wrong more often than I’m right, but when I’m wrong I’ll own it. And I’ve learned to choose my battles.
Peace my friend. That goes for you as well Micro. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Seems you had the right of this, Micro. Sometimes the numbers don’t tell the whole story. While it’s clear Mortick’s was a bit of a buff, it’s also not very much. Not nearly what was needed. Unfortunately, Stone gauntlets further pushed Barbs into a support role instead of a DPS one.
I'm not at all sure what this dogpile on Micro is about. He is pointing out, correctly, that Morticks was a bit of an upgrade. I don't think I've ever seen him say that it was enough of an upgrade.
His posts are at least interesting, and take a lot of effort, and I feel like that should be acknowledged.
Whenever he has some kind of ulterior motive is also irrelevant. The devs have proven time and time again feedback often falls on deaf ears.
I’m cautious in general about using recent NS leaderboard clears as a measuring stick of the new items and whether or not they’re really better than the next best alternative. It’s a small sample, and most players this week are testing the new items to see where they stack up before the season begins.
My personal best NS clear is a 106 with 1570 paragon in 11 minutes, in between S16 and S17. I’ve got 1930 paragon now, I could easily throw some new items on and clear a 108-110 if I really pushed it. It would look like the new items helped a great deal, but was it them or the paragon? And my gems are about 20 levels higher after I ran Chantodo Wiz last season, to boot.
Not saying the data is useless, but it’s a small sample size over a short period of time with a lot of different variables going into it. It’s not your typical apples to apples comparison. So, take it with a grain of salt. I’d wait until around mid-season to see where it all shakes out. That might be a good time to revisit this and draw some hard conclusions.
Either way I’m intrigued to see what happens this season. Have fun fellas.
But like I said, it’s interesting. It’s much better than "I can’t get Crimson to drop! or “Crimson is broken, it’s not affecting my sheet DPS!” posts.
Hah! I actually tried really really hard this week to force myself to run bounties for Crimson with disappointing results, but I refrained from complaining because I hate those posts.
Interesting, yes. But I have one of those jobs where analyzing past performance to make a decision is a requirement. And I can’t overlook the fact that it’s been like 4 days. It’s a curse. 
Only going to respond once in this thread, and then I encourage everyone to cease replying and let it die.
I want to start by quoting Foamy’s excellent post:
Then I want to take it a step further.
Micro likes to say, “Barbs need buffs, I’m on your side,” but threads like these are, as I pointed out long ago, thinly veiled ways of saying, “but things aren’t that bad, right? I mean, look at these new clears with new items.”
But this, like all his other posts with “data,” fails to take in the big picture that Foamy nicely summarizes. Non-Season clears are experimenting with new items, and likely posting new personal bests due to increased Paragon, gem levels, and gear quality. The likelihood that these items represent even a +1 GR buff is unlikely. What’s more likely is that players are trying different combinations of things and going up 1 or 2 GRs due to the conditions Foamy and I listed above.
In other words, the “data” Micro posts every other day is, at best, incomplete and fails to consider the larger context of the game. At worst, it’s simply disingenuous rhetoric, dog whistling to signal that really, deep down, these new items are pretty good, and they can be fit into the top clears, and isn’t that worth exploring, guys, isn’t it?
And the answer is no.
No, that’s not worth exploring. No, it’s not interesting. It’s no more significant than logging on and accidentally getting a GG rift and clearing a tier higher than you cleared last Season. It’s nothing.
Has the gap between Barbs and other classes decreased by 4.1 tiers? Have our supporting legendaries received a buff? Have our broken sets been addressed? No?
Case closed.
Until you see a Rank 1 clear for a build with new items, don’t believe any hype.
Oh, except this:
No, that’s called critical thinking, and it’s really, really useful. Try it some time.
Negative. Our proposal wasn’t just given to the devs. It was read and discussed. There’s more to it, of course, but I’m not inclined to give you details.
This isn’t a dogpile. It’s an ongoing campaign against misinformation and amateur analysis that misleads readers. When you see Barb vets and experts alike joining together to do this, you can bet your yam there’s a good reason. And you can bet someone else’s yam that the person on the other end of the argument stick is out of his or her league.
Remember, folks: These kinds of threads can and should be buried by a lack of responses. Again, I encourage everyone to drop likes where you feel appropriate, then cease responding so this, like his other threads, can fall off into oblivion.
The OP of this topic is about new patch 2.6.6 items being used by the top tier barb community. I never claimed that these items would bring barbs to solo DPS parity with other classes. I find it interesting that Morticks + other items are being incorporated into new top clears. I have also posted data about other classes on the same topic. This data may inform Free’s assessment.
This thread has been sidetracked by talk of dog whistling and other things that are not consistent with my post history. I think that the data I presented is incredibly consistent with barbs being the class that has the worst solo DPS without any if ,ands, or buts. Hence, barbs need a buff for solo DPS.
Excluding this post, there are 274 posts with the word “fine”.
The funny thing about this is that I searched how many posts I made with the word “fine”. 3 are mine. One is about bazooka wiz, one is in this thread where I quoted Jako, and one is about iKKEGOL USB Double 2 Foot Switch.
Lets look at some of the tables/information that I posted about the classes this era. For clarity, the last table is not mine but quoted verbatim from the barb buff proposal website of Free and Rage.
The data below is the average of top 10 GR clears per class
Free, what this shows is not whether micro is at fault, but it shows that the barb community is.
And it’s not whether your numbers are right or wrong, it’s everyone’s approach to it. On several occasions, people with “less” bright ideas have been brought down by a barrage of “let barbs handle barb problems”, what it does is that it assumes other people can’t figure out how to fix barbs, it assumes an outside view can’t see a solution.
And in this you have a select group of barb players that has a higher standing, you included. These are pretty much the face of barbs, the ones with the guides, and the ones that are reinforcing the guides.
This creates a very hostile environment for anyone to actually voice their opinion on the barb forum, because you will “attack” in a pact. What some of us have, micro in particular is to call out on some bullhonky to prove a point,because we believe it’s factually wrong.
It has come to the point where anything outside of your list has become the enemy, and people have constantly been referred to “check free and rage’s list”, that’s not how you let the inspiration and good ideas prosper.
So, you can read into the micros posts as much as you want, and we can do the same with yours. In my opinion, you’re one step closer to a totalitarian society, where ideas are only allowed for a small group of people.
No, what you are doing is not called critical thinking. Not even close to it.
“the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.”
Think of critical thinking as the reasonable, emotion-free type of thinking. So, the opposite of critical thinking is choosing what to do or say based solely on emotion, or even jumping to an answer or conclusion without working your way through the separate parts of the issue. If you wanted to break down his numbers and prove him wrong or go about finding another answer based off of his own methodology then you would be critically thinking. Everything you have done has been based off your feelings and what you feel he is saying.
How very convenient. Not that it even matters as that does not give you the ability to stop others from posting their thoughts and opinions on barb subjects.
You and I always butt heads on this one thing, but in your defense it is because I am a HUGE fan of freedom. I don’t disagree with your proposal, hell I think it is amazing, but I do disagree with you trying to stop people from voicing their ideas.
@Rashiel… Take my like and be good my friend.
However, Micro’s opinions have the tendency of potentially misrpresenting reality in the way he puts numbers by specially picking certain cases. I think that s where most barb players are feeling a bit bad. Because such kind of expressions caused a great deal of loss to barb players. Remember:
A certain player we call Burger: “the guy was plowing 125 with WW”. Just this expression (which was not true) very consistently expressed in a thread with blue visibility caused us to lose skull grasp buff from 500% to 400%. This was not correct.
There were other cases with nicknames burger and ketchup etc etc. Barb community can list a whole bunch of these stories. And Micro may be one of such cases (how uninentional that may be). Picking correct words in correct places and picking data more objectively is necessary to do what micro is trying to do. However, no matter how logical or reasonable we tried to express, Micro is not accepting or seeing where his mistakes are. This is either ignorance (unintentionap) or intentional with an agenda.
It looks to me he has an agenda as we never saw this ‘barb expert’ in forums before. So rightfully, we are not very positive about his purpose.
If they are what does that hurt? Are you assuming the devs are dumb and will take his bad numbers and make changes based off that? Are you assuming that if enough people fall into his bad numbers that we will have enough people to vote on what changes go through? Your attacks on Micro stem from the idea that you actually have power to make changes. You don’t, he doesn’t, and I don’t.
This is the most truthful thing i’ve seen posted about this so far. It is all about feelings.
You have 100% confirmation that 1 player plowing 125 with WW and posting about it was the reason it changed? If you have this proof that this is 100% true please share with the class so we can all get on board with this paranoia.
Stories are just that… stories.
Your problem with Micro seems to stem more from your own personal fears rather than his bad numbers. I find it sad that you have such little faith in game devs that they cannot figure out good numbers vs bad. I am amazed most of the barb players aren’t currently working in the gaming industry.
Some people are dense and you should just move on and stop replying. Actively trying to shut them down from speaking about an entire class in a game makes you look bad.
What exactly makes our resident “barb experts” actual experts? Because they can right a semi decent guide? Because they can do math? Because their ideas are better than others? (subject to personal opinion). In the early stages of Diablo 3 I was running builds well before “guides” were written does that mean I am an expert?
If most of the self proclaimed experts just ignored this guys posts they would most likely already be gone and forgotten. There is a sickness on this forum though where everyone has to be on the same idea or you aren’t allowed to post. I don’t agree with Micro or his numbers but I also hate seeing the “experts” band together to try and stifle people from posting. Micro has impressed me with one thing and that is his unending drive to continue posting.
Would you say you have a feeling about it? 
Whatever man. I am not responding in Micros threads anymore. I dont want to shut him down or have any feeling. He can list down the 1st 50 decimals of pi number and average them for all I care. And devs are really that bad with numbers. For many seasons their buff numbers were random creating a huge power creep from S4 to S11. Only after some community effort the numbers were kind of fixed only to be ruined again…
Anyway guys. Typing on phone is ****
Something we all can agree on!
The second quote is in reference to Free/Rage’s table quoted verbatim from their website. It is not my calculation at all, but I did base my calculation on theirs that some members of the barb community felt was reasonable.
If you consider my calculation/numbers method garbage/cherry picked, then it applies to everyone who used the method. I will defend Free and Rage here because their method is imperfect and has caveats but it is a reasonable approximation. The punchline is undeniable, barbs as solo DPS are currently worse and need a buff.
My numbers and Prokahns numbers agree relative to season 12/patch 2.6.1 where barbs were reasonably well-balanced in relation to other classes. That balance went sideways in the next 2 major patches (2.6.4 and 2.6.5). To my knowledge, no one has said that Prokahn’s analysis was wrong about season 12.
This is interesting as I describe. It appears that you harbor a grudge that some misinformation by “burger” caused the developers to reduce whirlwind on skull grasp (500%-400%). I am not sure how you concluded that the developers used “burger’s” misinformation when they made their decision. This is clearly speculation.
Given the misinformation of “burger” and how DPS is calculated in game, I think you would agree that increasing whirlwind or base damage 6X (or about 10 greater rifts worth of extra DPS) would help that build. In relation to this recommendation, it was written:
If “burger” was wrong, then…
So why are you hiding your public profile then?
Can we see your time playing these classes.
I am not hiding my player profile just my forum profile.
My career profile is at https://us.diablo3.com/en/profile/MicroRNA-1507/career
I play all classes: the most is DH @ 34% and least necromancer @ 5%. Considering my total play time, I have a lot of hours in all classes.
Again, look at the merits of my posts and not some false assumption based on a misunderstanding of how the new forum works.
There is much merit to Dartok and Rashiel posts that your most recent post seems to ignore.
Compare and contrast…
http://ximg.co.uk/images/2019/08/24/d3_forums_hidden_profile.jpg
You’ve hidden the option to view your heroes / career (view profile).