Faster Hit Recovery / Stun /Diminishing Returns / Immunity Frames / KnockBack / Player Vs Player

General Discussion
1

hey everyone

there are some issues that have to be pointed out

first of all

Faster Hit Recovery from items in % always refers to frames with which the game runs on ( XX Frames out of 25 )

Stun is the animation of the Faster Hit Recovery playing out = unable to move , use Skills for X or XX Frames ( x/x milliseconds )

Stun Requirements : Enemy has a ( Swirly Animation on top of their Character )
due to losing a significant portion of their Life Total or
was subject to a Skill that induces ā€œStun Lengthā€ ( Stun Length as in Skill ToolTip = Swirly )
& gets hit with a Skill / Attack within the time period of the swirly = Stun

Example :

Barbarian
FHR Frames
0% 9
7% 8
15% 7
27% 6
48% 5
86% 4

Characters & their Skills are interacting with other Characters & their Skills

Example :

Barbarian Faster Hit Recovery- , Increased AttackSpeed- , Faster Cast Rate- , Faster Block Rate- , Barbarian Skills- etc. ( - Breakpoints ) in Frames

[Vs]

Assassin Faster Hit Recovery- , Increased AttackSpeed- , Faster Cast Rate- , Faster Block Rate- , Assassin Skills- etc. ( - Breakpoints ) in Frames

Your Characters Faster Hit Recovery is interacting with another Characters Faster Hit Recovery- , Increased AttackSpeed- , Faster Cast Rate- , Faster Block Rate- etc.

Example :

Barbarian with 0% Faster Hit Recovery ( 9 Frames ) has a Swirly on top of him
is being hit by a Sorceress FireBall Skill with 105% Faster Caster Rate ( 8 Frames )

8 Frames are faster than 9 Frames so the Barbarian will be stunned repeatedly [[Before what is stated below took place ]]

[Diminishing Returns on the Faster Hit Recovery Animation ( Stun ) / ->> Immunity Frames <ā€“]

By introducing this all of the fundamental game mechanics were thrown out of the window so to speak
since every Attack , Skill , Movement etc. ( Everything ) runs on certain Frames within the Game

Example :

Stun occurs , Immunity Frames play out & Stun occures due to a 10 Frame Skill
you rendered specific Frames from Attacks / Skills useless or disadvantages to even lower Frames from
Attacks / Skills by introducing Immunity Frames. Same applies to the receiving end of the Character
who might be better of using less Faster Hit Recovery or non at all vs specific Attacks / Skills
cause of the intervals in which the Immunity Frames take place.

Immunity Frames based on what Attack , Skill , Movement - Radius , Character , Frames etc. or Time only ?
Clarification & or adjustments needed & very much appreciated

[KnockBack]

doesnt work properly in Player Vs Player ( its subject to new introduced Immunity Frames )
KnockBack can not ever be mitigated by anything ā† i really have to stress this
please fix & or adress all of the issues stated above

I wrote it all as simple as possible
If you have any suggestions regarding the many issues
feel free to add & or correct on what is written
to get back into the exciting , competitive & high skill ceiling Game full of joy
that we all used to love

have a good week everyone

7 Likes
2

PvP is a novelty. The game should not be balanced around it what so ever.

5 Likes
3

Everything that is written in this topic is due to changes that were introduced to PvP only
you can still knockback high council in travincal as a gold find barb btw.

2 Likes
4

Pvp is the endgame of diablo 2, I personally would like a longer test period of the current change but if thereā€™s a consensus amongst the community I wouldnā€™t mind reverting this change there should always be a way to balance the game for pvp and pvm alike but do not forget pvp is the purpose of finding all these perfect items and what makes being proficient at pvm so important.

-just donā€™t take away my dudu zoo

3 Likes
5

THIS! Is the post Iā€™ve been waiting for. Thank you for spending your time writing this out for all of us who are asking the very same thing.

There is most certainly a way to keep diminishing returns a thing and also allow for more stun activity before it is applied.

1 Like
6

Agreed, the change should be reverted, they donā€™t know what theyā€™re doing trying to balance PvP.

2 Likes
7

Exactly, remove this change to FHR.

I know you ment it in negative manner but get REKT. :sunglasses:

4 Likes
8

No I didnā€™t really mean it as a negative. Just a premise to guide a decision.

2 Likes
9

How do the immunity frames work exactly, and when do they start?, after FHR ends or as soon as you get hit? It isnā€™t clear why you are claiming it would be good to have less FHR against certain skills

1 Like
10

i dont know what the immunity frames are based of / in
thats why im asking for clarification on those aswell
you said ā†’ It isnā€™t clear why you are claiming it would be good to have less FHR against certain skills ā†

its because of the intervals in which the immunity frames will occur when you re being subject to multiple instances of the faster hit recovery animation ( stun ) playing out
example : u got 0 fhr on barb & get stunned ( u re unable to move / use skills etc. for the period of 9 frames ) then the immunity frames kick in ( which we dont know what they re based of/in ) meanwhile the enemy kept using their skills for example Sorc 105 Fcr FireBall which uses 8 frames

as of right now its ā†’ hit , stun , immunity frames ā† means you cant be stunned
so if your enemy insists on stunning you again and keeps casting spells if we continue with this example a sorc 105 fcr = 8 frames it will look like this

stun ( 9 ) , [ sorc keeps casting = 8 8 8 while immunity frames occure ] into 8 into 9
and repeat
the interval is the issue
example
when you got 5 frames instead of 9 frames of being stunned
and then get into immunity frames you are prone to getting stunned faster

1 Like
11

I think I see what you are saying, but at the same time if you recover faster, and then start immunity frames, that would also mean you can respond with an attack or flee faster

12

as of right now
everyone gets out of a stun easily since the duration of a stun amounts only to milliseconds
and the immunity frames kick in right away
D2 R affectively has no form of hard CC only somewhat of a soft stagger
quicker responds time from frames upon being stunned = bad
cause you re subject to being stunned quicker due to immunity frames
there is alot more to it than that like imagine ias on certain atks / skills interactions etcā€¦
( recovering faster only has its value when facing more than 1 threat via a skill / atk at a time )

1 Like
13

I think I see what you mean, but I think low fhr would only be good against mb spam, and higher fhr would be beneficial vs almost anything else

14

The diminishing returns only apply to pvp, what are you talking about balancing a game around pvp? Have you not read the patch notes or tested on ptr.

15

I donā€™t know anything about it. Iā€™m just stating an objective fact in case it becomes necessary to state like it always does in threads like these.

16

This thread is about a change that only affects pvp and here you are interjecting random opinion that have nothing to do with the thread and what itā€™s asking for. Undoing a pvp only change is not asking for the game to be balanced around pvp.

1 Like
17

If this thread gets to 100 posts, it most certainly will be relevant. Youā€™ll see. Itā€™s just an inb4.

18

This isnā€™t a new topic, this was an issue since day 1 of ptr. Pvpers donā€™t like the changes to fhr that only apply to pvp, thatā€™s it. Then clueless people chime in and make it an issue to what the thread isnā€™t even about.

20

FHR only matters ( rly ) when one gets potentially stunned multiple times in a row
but with immunity frames online thats not the case
MindBlast from Assassins are normaly 11 to 9 Frames
Whirlwind , Smite etc. are way quicker like 4 / 5 / 6 Frames

when you re not affected by a stun anylonger you have to use a movement command [FRW Radius / Yards & maybe +X / XX % Velocity / movement angle etc. ]
or a skill like teleport which is subject to FCR / Frames / Individual Character
or a skill that displaces you or your enemy FCR / Frames / Individual Character / IAS
etc.

21

Ok im going to try to explain as clearly as possible what we know (or think to know about stun immunity).

In first PTR, the stun immunity started after you finish your first hit anime. Once it was over, you could be stun again.

In second PTR, they somehow changed it : the stun immunity was still starting after the first hit anime, but you had some sort of timer that started to run right after you actually got it (in the same time as the hit animation started). When the timer ended, your stun immunity would end as well. With that version, that means the most FHR you had, the more frame you could actually spend ā€œfreeā€ in stun immunity.

For some reason, they went back to first version for the final form of the patch (tho im not sure if the number are the same). The stun immunity duration should currently be something like 10 or 11 frames. Beyond the impact on gameplay, there is several thing to know :

-For unknow reason, FoH work differently from that model and the timer are completely messed up. Its possible others skills are also in this case.

-Skill with knock back behave a bit differently as well, but its probably because the knock back animation delay a bit the hit anime recovery animation. So the stun immunity is delayed as well

-One big problem with that current form of mechanic is that you run into some weird case when you can get punished for having ā€œtoo muchā€ FHR. Because FHR reduce the duration of the hit anime, it make the immuity window proc soonerā€¦ and sometime too soon : your enemy can be a bit slower and actually attack again right after your immunity end. Its really hard to know when its going to happen as it depends both of your FHR and of the foe FCR. Hence, its really hard to gear adequately for each match up. The whole thing feels really bad as FHR is a stat supposed to help you, not hinder you

3 Likes