Guy’s job is to torture bad souls that couldn’t be redeemed. I mean, he didn’t kill anyone. hehe
Okay let me try and explain this to you deeper then.
Think of the most cute, innocent soul you can think of, someone who still cuddles teddy bears right into adulthood, that never was a naughty child, that always did what their parents told them to do, a soul that you might consider “pure of heart”.
My belief is that if such a soul was shown some very dark shadows indeed, even such a person will slowly corrupt over time.
But this works in reverse too, how many times have we heard that someone who was once such a nice/quiet friendly man and whatnot then ended up committing mass murder, it happens. Even the biggest tyrants in history were said to have an agreeable, personal, friendly manner were kind to animals and were vegan and whatnot.
This is because whether we like it or not, every soul is a being of duality, made of both ‘good’ and ‘evil’ stuff.
The reason that it is ‘wrong’ in my eyes to keep condemning the evil things you see someone else doing is because to me it’s a denial of your own darker nature, the fact of the matter is that when souls become consciously aware, they can be both the nastiest and nicest beings in all of creation.
The fact of the matter is, that every soul is as as capable of doing the highest good that you would see the Arbiter does, sending souls to their just afterlives, but to be capable of such ‘goodness’ you have to be capable of doing the worst possible ‘evil’ you can imagine as well, and in that context, there’s not really much that beats condemning souls to eternal suffering/annihilation.
Furthermore, in an age of mortals, You will find that in a mortal world, that it is much easier to be a “good” person when things like competitiveness are not required. Little details like whether clan memberships are passed down the female or male line, whether your society has strong rules or lax rules, we eventually get to the point where we realize universal morality perhaps never existed. Like the Arbiter, these are mere constructs.
Evil therefore in this context doesn’t exist, that I would argue it is time to replace such a metaphysical concept with a simple truth, that people do what they need to in order to survive, at most an ‘evil act’ is a neurological glitch in a mortal brain, and those who commit murder and ‘evil acts’ in my view, as i am not living their life and walking in their shoes, and knowing what’s driving them to me means that it is not our place to judge such a soul, as the extent they have moral agency is difficult to determine.
Here is the truth though, that I am under the impression that the only reason people are so insistent on the current state of affairs being ‘evil’ is because of the negative outcome the current situation could have on our own eternal souls. But in reality, we are at an impasse, because one person’s ‘good’-the right to free agency-is simply everyone else’s ‘bad’.
Now for everyone that is condemning the “evil actions” going on in the afterlife and elsewhere, can you prove to me beyond any doubt, that any of your own desires for security and safety won’t override your normal ‘empathy circuit’? The fact is, maybe you broke up with an ex, as they couldn’t give you the security you truly craved…maybe you betrayed a company you were working for, for over 10 years, for taking off for a better deal…while these are of course ‘lesser evils’ in your mind, you still seek some kind of moral high ground, by being able to call other things more ‘evil’ to try and convince yourself that you’re not. That if such beings you despise you can’t call evil, who can you?
Just think about it.
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There’s something going on there, though. I think it’s possible that the Jailer may have once been the Arbiter. But whatever he did got him banished to the Maw. The Jailer’s chest is empty. The Arbiter has a glowing ball in hers. What if she’s a construct using his “heart?”
You’re going about this all wrong. You’re trying to justify actions of an Eternal One as good and evil. That’s not how this works. You need to focus on the clues we have of who he may have been prior to being locked in the Maw. Beings who transcend time and space, older than most world’s, think very differently.
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I got some ideas about the Jailer. One idea is the prisoner that makes the artifact armor we wear is actually the jailer and the Primus replaced him for reasons that are yet to be revealed.
The other idea is that he’s got some deals going with the Old Gods. I mean, they really do like their yummy souls and all. And where better to get a near infinite amount? WoW Hell of course. And if every soul ends up in wow hell, then all the better. Anyway, I have no basis of support for these ideas.
Also, I would be giving Blizzard too much credit, if anything this clever came from them.
Most likely the prisoner is the Primus. And the Jailer is just being a generic badguy.
Zzzzzzzzzz ah heh wah? Sorry, I dozed off, what were you saying? Something about a Sylvanas or Jailer body pillow? That’s icky.
“This is my boomstick!”
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The short version of what I said is that perhaps true evil and suffering came into existence when we deny the existence of our darker half.
I believe it is quite possible that the Jailer and Arbiter are two halves of the same coin. Therefore, despite what we’ve been told by all the other Eternal Ones, we must reach the Jailer reach the Arbiter and support him in his quest.
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“Shades of Grey. When Dark and Light fuse into a perfect balance. It is a very common belief, that all things are made up of both dark and light, and finding a balance between them is the goal of the soul.”
“If they split the soul between them, then it is very likely, that one got the dark half and one got the light half.”
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Actually, they are. I’m getting queasy just reading this tripe.
“You need to balance your Soul. Shades Of Grey… You are not in the middle, so you feel unbalanced.”
/smile
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One thing that everyone needs to consider is that everyone is so quick to condemn “evil” beings for their “evil” actions but here are is the truth…
You who think you are so good and so pure, as if you are unworthy of being sent into the torment of the Maw. Well here are the facts, most religious scriptures will teach you that everyone deserves such a punishment and worse in their afterlives due to the nature of who we are.
Consider…you might live a “good life” you worked to provide for your family, maybe you died protecting them…but what about that one single day of your life, that one day, where you told someone to their face that you thought they were a good person, but still didn’t want to see them again? And you told them later, that it was because you simply didn’t like what they looked like despite their beautiful personality? That one day you caused immense harm to another soul?
If I was God, when that person died, for that crime I would summon a hideous creature from the abyss, and curse that person to live as in that grotesque beasts form and laugh as they finally learn the true meaning of the word ugliness, because that’s what you deserve for the hurt you caused that person in life, let’s be honest. The fact that the rest of your life was a ‘good life’ does not negate the pain, hurt, or rather mental anguish you caused another individual.
That’s just one example maybe it was something else you did in life, maybe it was something trivial like stealing candy, now you might think this is such a small crime and such a petty offence but what if that one thing you did was the final straw that led to someone having to shut down their business, which led them to losing everything else in their life, their wife that dumped them over failed business, leading them to suicide later on or whatever? You name it, the point is that we are all are capable of more evil then you know, hurting/torturing others causing them “pain” in this world or the afterlife is but a physical manifestation of the true torment and hurt we can cause others, pain would be an irrelevant punishment to a soul that’s a true masochist.
My belief though is that every mortal soul, is acting out of a desire for survival, to continue their existence, in this context, what is one person’s “good” will be another person’s “bad”, therefore there is no true evil and everything is morally grey, and even if you see certain things as “evil”, from that point of view the fact of the matter is there are only heroes, and heroes who lived long enough to become the villain, in which case it is inevitable you will be guilty of similar crimes at some point, and will get your comeuppance one day.
Are you truly willing to accept full responsibility for everything you did wrong in your own life, from day 0 to Year 120? And are you aware that there could be countless things in those 120 years that one could pick out and see as worthy of just punishment?
You see, all it takes is that one moment where you really stuffed up, and as such, we all deserve to be in eternal torment and be laughed at as our souls are consumed and destroyed. This is why when the Arbiter was broken, the natural place for souls to go was straight into the pits of hell, as that’s the natural place for souls to go. Sorry but this is the brutal truth.
But on a lighter note, this doesn’t mean that there is no hope. Once we accept the darkness in our own hearts, and know and understand the evil/hurt we can cause others, only then can we truly understand what goodness and virtue truly are too? Just had to add that in so can end this on a lighter happier note so you don’t just dismiss what I’m saying as the ramblings of a lunatic.
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“As one of those Lunatics, I take offense to this statement.”
“You say Lunatic, like it’s a BAD thing.”
/giggle
“Just to clarify, it goes with what I said above… I tested on a Genius Level, I am also considered Crazy, by those same professionals. My Insanity is my Dark Side, and my Genius is my Light Side. Together they make me the Artist that I am, but when they get imbalanced, there is hell to pay.”
“Perhaps the Original Entity became imbalanced, and went to war with itself, on an Internal Level. The outcome of this War, was the fracturing of the Battling Soul, creating The Jailer and the Arbiter. Becoming a literal ‘split’ personality. The Jailer could be wanting his Heart back, but the Arbiter doesn’t want her Dark Side back. But they can’t be complete, until they are whole again.”
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I still think this topic is very relevant and worthy everyone’s consideration, I consider you that are condemning the “evil actions” saying that these evil characters should get whatever they deserve shows a degree of moral righteousness that I find difficult to comprehend…
The fact is, we are all worthy of hell and this is our default destination.
If I were still alive on Azeroth right now, I’d be clinging to life at all costs, I wouldn’t worry about fighting the Scourge, my advice would be run…run…and keep running…until you find a safe refugee somewhere, and cling to life no matter what!!
Because you are damned like everyone else, and justly so as we’re all monsters deep down inside.
You are basically saying “the ends justify the means” while ignoring his end goal is not noble or good. You are also trying more then a bit too hard to justify him.
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Or it’s just a flavor change from the normal Sylvanas defense.
Moral relativity is always good for a laugh. If there is no true good or evil, then I can hate the Jailer and lay waste to his armies for any reason I want to, and your entire argument is irrelevant.
In reality though, one thing you have to understand is that most people are coming from an innate desire to survive and self-preservation, unless your name is The Joker that’s obviously chaotic evil (prior to his 2019 current incarnation anyway, that one was more justified in killing people, as those people were mean to him), you got to understand that at this point, we are essentially doing the same thing Sylvanas is doing.
We don’t believe we deserve eternal torment, so are trying to circumvent that fate for our souls. What extremes will we end up going to, to achieve such a thing? Time will tell.
Besides, if you truly believe in some universal good/evil, then that would place most of the realms of the Shadowlands, in an evil/neutral category, I mean look at Bastion, the Kyrian are at most, Lawful Neutral, they just take souls to Oribos because that’s what they are supposed to do, never questioning their orders or the fate of what happens to the souls that fall into the maw, the fact that they then send “heroes” to bring some of those souls back to them is madness.
The truth is, mortal souls do not act primarily out of a desire for moral goodness, they act out of a desire for self-preservation, do you think any religious fanatic in the universe is following their religion for any other reason then to get rewarded in some heavenly afterlife, or to not be punished, those people aren’t being good for goodness sake, let’s be honest.
Most people are acting purely out of self-preservation, and to me, if I was the judge, jury and executioner of the universe, I would consider someone who believes they are acting out of self-preservation as a much lesser “evil” then someone who just randomly kills/tortures an innocent person, because it’s fun and they get off on it or whatever else.
But even those crazy people, well they have no empathy which other people do have, see a lot of people have an empathy-circuit which stops from hurting innocents, so those that don’t have the same empathy circuit in that context one could argue they simply had something wrong with their brains.
The problem I have with the concept of “evil” is that it creates a degree of moral righteousness where you assume that you are somehow a better person then others, in many ways an “evil” person is a victim of themselves.
The way I see it though, the only reason something like the Maw can exist, is due to the fact that if the Jailer was once one being and split in half, well I will be honest, my primitive moralizing brain would be tempted to see the Arbiter as the “ultimate good” as she gives evil people one last chance to be redeemed in Revendreth, to me that is the ultimate virtue isn’t it, to always be merciful to your enemies until they atone and whatnot.
Unfortunately the polar opposite of this is the ultimate evil, where you are shown no mercy for the most minor transgression perhaps?
So there is but once choice.
The Jailer must reach the Arbiter. Balance to the cosmos must be restored.