Ret Paladin Deserves Slight Buff

I’m going to start this off by saying Blizzard has already stated that they will be watching class balance closely and that if a class becomes junk, they are open to making changes, but the community has to push for it. Here’s the article and quote:

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/news/wrath-classic-developer-interview-with-community-council-item-level-squish-pvp-328553

“We will be watching class balance closely, and my perspective is we should just let it be, unless a class is pushed out entirely and the community says ‘this class is complete junk, we don’t even bring them anymore’ and then I think we should take a look at it”

With wrath ret being balanced around t10 set bonuses, the spec has been pretty much neutralized when it comes to being a DPS that is worth a raid spot in the first two phases. I play Ret on Benediction. I’ve consistently been in the upper 99% of ret players all the way through TBC to now. Last week I was #6 in the world for ret paladins on patchwerk and the only geared dps I managed to beat were a warlock and rogue who died to threat… and before you say anything yes I KNEW that ret would not being strong based on it’s 3.3 state and still chose to play it. This isn’t a HAHA YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT RET BEING GOOD moment. It’s about the fact that leaving it like this is ridiculous when originally rets were far better by comparison. They should be competent in their role for more than 3 months of this whole expac.

It has already been discussed within the guild that it doesn’t make sense to bring a ret paladin to our main raid now that splits are coming to an end and this is only naxx. Our dps is projected to get even worse in Ulduar compared to other classes. As a well known member of the Paladin Discord I’m aware that many other guilds are having this same conversation (even guilds that do not run splits). It’s a huge mistake to wait for a class to be pushed out of raid entirely before considering changes. The time frame in which a meaningful change for ret would happen if we waited that long would make the change itself irrelevant since we’d be closing in on ICC by then.

Ret is at a point where it will be complete junk for the entirety of the content that seems to be the main draw for this expansion, Ulduar. Yes we knew that ret on 3.3 would be bad, but that’s no excuse to leave it in this state when it’s a massive difference from how it originally performed. Is this a re-release or just a clone of a private server? Simply because private servers did something doesn’t mean it’s automatically the best possible course of action. There is no universe where leaving such a popular class in an essentially broken state until several weeks into ICC is good for the game.

I think that if the class is going to be balanced around a set bonus, it needs to exist in the game. It seems to me it would be incredibly fair to say, “you know what, since this class is balanced around a set bonus, we’re going to put that bonus on the paladin tier set in ulduar so they can out dps the tank.” (would like to hear other suggestions too this just seems like the lowest possible effort for blizz)

As it stands nearly every other class will scale harder with the coming ilvl increases than ret will . Some of them, like warriors, appear to be getting a nice buff due to this. The intent of the item level changes obviously isn’t to buff warriors but it’s having that effect and ZERO people are complaining about it. In fact almost everyone I know seems excited for warriors. Why? Because warriors are in a bad place just like ret. Is the spec still viable? Yes, because the content is so easy, but it’s pretty obvious that this is a healthy thing for warriors as a class, and potentially opens up some new theory crafting for raiders.

Personally I don’t need to dominate the meters to have fun, but when I see that I’m performing at the highest level and my damage still feels like a non-contribution something is clearly in need of change. And per blizzard the only way that happens is if we ask for it, so get in paladins we have to make ret mediocre again. And get ready for a ton of people to be toxic about this for no real reason.

Here’s a link to my Reddit post as well:https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/z1awkj/ret_paladin_deserves_slight_buff/

Ogb - Benediction

74 Likes

I guess two OP specs aren’t enough…….

8 Likes

how is prot OP? it’s just a functional tank spec. troll elsewhere.

11 Likes

Prot is the best tank in the game.

4 Likes

Does it though? It’s a spec for babies.

5 Likes

It’s true. The whole class is like that.

true it doesn’t even have a pet that can do half it’s raid damage after all

19 Likes

Retribution was never really ‘viable’ in WotLK based on dps alone. Their viability came from a combination of their dps and the buffs/debuffs they bring.

Right now, those buffs/debuffs are superfluous because you’ve got Assassination Rogues, Arcane Mages and Survival Hunters running around. Once Combat, Fire and Marksmanship start surpassing those specs, then there’s a calculation you need to make whether the damage difference between the better pure dps specs and their utility counterparts is greater or less than the damage shortfall from a Retribution Paladin.

We’re basically certain that this will be the case in Phase 4. We’re reasonably certain it won’t be in Phase 2.

The same sort of calculus occurs with most of the hybrid classes. So it’s not as simple as “need more deeps!”. From a raid comp standpoint, the viability of the various healing/dps specs is highly dependent on the other specs you’re bringing that share the buffs/debuffs. The game is balanced around Phase 4 and if you start tinkering, you’re going to throw off that balance.

1 Like

if any class balance changes go ahead on the side of buffs it SHOULDNT BE for paladins, If anything holy and prot need nerfs

buff hunters, priests and shamans first

2 Likes

I have to agree that ret paladin was screwed over unfairly specifically because we are in "patch 3.3.4 balance wise.

Paladins were nerfed towards the end of WoTLK to account for the amazing t10 set bonus, but we wont have t10 set bonuses for a really long time… So they got fuked over basically.

16 Likes

everything is “viable” in this game man. it’s about the class being so sub-optimal due to patch tuning around a t10 set bonus that it’s going to have a very hard time getting a raid spot in ulduar.

15 Likes

So much text used to ask for buffs in the wrong place. You need to go to the retail forum.
:axe:

6 Likes

thank you for offering nothing to convo drain. glad to see you still press the axe emoji

16 Likes

Blizzard themselves stated they would watch balance. You are asking in the correct forum it has nothing to do with retail.

Also some other classes could use buffs but those classes are outperforming rets right now and will be in Ulduar. He is asking to be brought to that exact level lol.

This is clown world now though.

16 Likes

Much like OP, I didn’t pick ret because ‘lol ret so good wotlk’ meme. I picked ret day 1 of classic and have no regrets and I’d 100% do it again.

That being said I’ll throw my hat in the ring and agree with OP- the retribution spec is balanced around a tier set bonus that is inaccessible, so in reality ret is not really balanced.

I’ve heard tales of people complaining to high heaven about ret initially when WOTLK came out, because divine storm was shredding pvp and pve content. Clearly we were once at least mediocre.

But you really don’t have to go further than looking at warcraft logs’ top parsers overall DPS to understand what bums us out:

UH DK (lol gargoyle go brrr): 10-11k
Warlock (affliction): 9.5-10.5k
Assassination Rogues: 9.2-9.5k
Warlock (demo): 9-10k
Arcane mage: 8.9-9.8k
Enhancement Shaman: 8.7-9.2k
Survival Hunter: 8.7-9.1k
Frost DK: 8.5-9k
Combat Rogues: 8.2-9k
Fire mages: 8.2-8.8k
Elemental Shaman: 8-8.6k
Marksmanship Hunter: 7.8-9.1k
Shadow Priest: 7.9-8.7k
Destro Warlock: 7.9-8.6k
Feral Druid: 7.6k-8.3k
Fury Warrior: 7.5-8k

and finally, ret paladin: 7-7.3k

You can see all of this on warcraft logs rankings, I’d link to it but the forums don’t allow me to post links I guess.

As you see our top end parsers, our absolute biggest pumpers, have their absolute top-end dps below everyone else’s bottom-end dps. I think it’s safe to argue the point that this largely comes from balance patches that took into account us being able to reset the CD of Divine Storm with 40% of our melee attacks (really nice when you stack haste or have bloodlust, btw). I am open to being wrong on this, though- I didn’t play wrath originally so I’m going off of other people’s input who did play wrath.

I will give a shout out to frost mages and arms warriors, you guys are down there with us, but alas we don’t have any other option unlike you guys do (besides reroll, but that’s not my jam).

Overall I don’t expect anything from blizzard, I don’t expect anyone to seriously look at warcraft logs data, and I DO expect blizz drones to say “lol just go prot or heal” and not realize if every paladin played tank there wouldn’t be enough raid lock outs or guilds in the world to accommodate that many tanks or healers.

But who knows, maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised and we’ll get some love and attention.

27 Likes

It feels pretty bad to be parsing 99% and then be 11th to 12th on the meters… Especially when the classes ahead of you are parsing like 50-60% and destroying you on the meters.

It would definitely be nice to get some sort of buff until ICC

19 Likes

Just bake in the two set tier 10 bonus into the ret spec sincec we are balanced around having it anyway and change the 2 piece tier 10 to something small, like 5% CS damage or something.

18 Likes

No. Ret paladin is one of the easiest specs in the game. It doesnt deserve buffs

4 Likes

Ret is a support spec, and is doing great.

See you in ICC.

5 Likes

Shaman must be a support spec too, the only reason anyone wants them is for Heroism/Bloodlust right?

9 Likes