What is the barrier to entry? Let’s establish that first before we comment on whether it’s reasonable or not.
You can’t claim that having the full honor set is the barrier to entry. Many people are playing without the full honor set right now.
There’s a difference between a barrier to entry and fully optimized gear. They’re two completely opposite sides of the spectrums.
I’m not saying im okay with that i suggest faction changes to the unpopular faction on each server then close them at 50-50ish blizzard makes more money but they need to pay a lil bit of attention to population per server
Actually the tidal wave of dime-a-dozen warlocks and frost mages caused by the boost system is what is making more people quit I bet lol. The pvp is already incredibly boring and tedious. Maybe actual TBC was pretty fun with the actual class distribution vanilla had going into it - but this is just meh.
they wont fix honor rates or queue times because they want people to beg for faction changes. that’s why faction change service was found in the tbc programming code, and shortly afterwards blizzard banned data-mining (seen in the ToS). they don’t want players to realize their monetary scheme.
This is his entire argument right here.
He is to enraged that he hasn’t been handed gear in the first week to realize that almost everyone is in the same boat and is playing arenas without the PvP gear.
I agree, but on OCE servers the population dynamic is balanced, if not reversed in favour of Alliance yet still have the same issue.
Since currently OCE bgs group by region it doesn’t appear that simply having factions balanced fixes the problem, which suggests some other mechanic is also interfering.
You horde sweaties aren’t quitting fast enough.
Yeah i agree there could deff be some issues alone in the system queueing arena sometimes go 6+ minute queues currently in 2s/3s and just some how struggle to find a match. I think alot of the issue with bgs is it’s a bit demoralizing to queue and see you’ve gotten 60 honor after a game while the pieces are 12-20k idk why it feels worse now to grind honor than ranking to 13 in classic did
The honor fiasco aside, this is true. This is a game where other people’s choices affect you, not just your’s. If you want to be able to level without being ganked, don’t roll on a PvP server. If you want the perception racial, don’t roll a Night Elf. If you want fast queues, don’t roll Horde.
You knew before you chose Horde how BG queues are. You knew they didn’t have merc mode or faction transfers. So did a ton of other players that want to PvP.
This is LITERALLY how the game works.
Thought I’d add this here too so……
As a horde player, you all make me sick. You all swapped mains instead of sticking with the character you liked. You all rolled horde for racials, you did it to chase streamers around, you did it because you watched a video on YouTube, instead of going with what you liked and learning that character, and now we can’t even que without a long wait, and when we finally make it into a bg, we hit a premade wall. You wanted advantages and you wanted domination. You don’t want an even competitive playing field you wanted to dominate without any effort. The shoe is now on the other foot and you want a mercenary mode. Nah. Everyone loves to point at blizzard when they mess up including myself but THIS ONE IS ON ALL OF YALL WHO WANTED TO MIN MAX META GAME SO BAD. Take responsibility as ***tty players with selfish attitudes. Learn to play the game and maybe we can make things happen. Blizzard deserves so much clowning, but if you think you’re gonna point at them for this one, you’re mistaken. Wanna clown them for the season 2 pieces? Fine, wanna clown them because the game flickers, because they can’t get things right, HELL YEAH. You wanna point at them because horde players rolled horde for selfish reasons? Nah chief. Don’t think blizzard is gonna put a bandaid on this one. Reap what you sew now. How many more times does the player who just wants to enjoy the game have to pay for this bull ***t? Everyone thought they were so clever because they thought they could pull a smooth one. Congrats now alliance beats horde by default. Now we all get to hate from outside the club because we can’t even get in. Every person who rolled alliance is probably there because they enjoy alliance. Glad I already have a 60 on the other side ready to go.
honor is def. off. A mate just told me it took him like 3- 4 days to farm 1 piece. I have barely any memory of how it was in tbc in 2007, but there is no way i woulda waited 4 days for 1 offset item.
It’s not just people’s memory it’s actual data. I suggest you start by reading this:
The honor gains are verifiably WRONG. As someone mentioned, this is because of Blizzard’s lazy frankenpatch approach.
I don’t expect them to fix it. I’ve pretty much decided to not even concern myself with PvP at this point.
The main issue is of poor design. Hardly anyone plays them once the loot is obsolete: which proves hardly anyone plays them for what they were intended for, because they aren’t fun or balanced.
Early BGs and Arenas were slapped on to grab more MMO marketshare and then filled with loot incentives in order for people to care. Old school arena players got good for the ad $$$ back then and moved on. Streamers can use them to make a side hustle and for charity, but the pvp is so laughable to players outside of WoW that you’ll never see them celebrated as something balanced, fun or having some insane skill ceiling.
The best pvpers now admit private servers helped them puzzle combos per tier, and non private server players will get eaten alive for a while: less because of inferior skill, but because of less combo knowledge and practice.
The queues exist because of the same mentality of having bis racials in terms of stats, or in the case of blood elves: looks (not me but whatever).
The complaints about queues are couched in: “I need my bis gear for my bis racials faster” and not “I can’t get into awesome pvp”
Tldr; people probably want bgs reasonably playable to grind gear more quickly, not to play them reasonably.
Back then “competitive rating” was hardly a known quantity to how it is now. Healers did great and I hear a lot of them even made it all the way through Cata, years later.
You only need that gear, now, because you think you do.
Any bis that takes too long to get, demotes itself from bis. Feel free to put an asterisk on competing parse groups (who are likely to still be horde)
So sad it feels like you’re missing the point. Offhandedly just telling people they’re entitled without even looking at the numbers is just incredibly ignorant. In WoW’s entire history there has never been a grind this significant in time investment related to gear. Not even close. And this is for a STARTER set of BLUE gear that isn’t even BiS long term. Both Ally and Horde are looking at a 300+ hour grind for this set, even pushing 400 hours depending on winrate. That’s over 13 days of PLAYED time.
This is actually the worst outlook on a set of gear being purposefully put in the game, mind you a STARTER set that is supposed to help for entry into that part of the game. Why in hell would a team put a starter set of gear into the game then intentionally make it so long to grind to obtain that it is essentially unobtainable? It’s almost as if the original TBC team back in the day made it obtainable with proper honor rates, but the TBC Classic team in their frankenpatch version of the game borked the honor rates so bad that it is almost impossible to farm now 
There is no reason the pvp equivalent of pre-raid BiS take far far far far longer to farm up.
My guild had 10 people hit 70 and be kara ready before the first reset, i dont think its humanely possible to have done the same thing with pvp gear.
That post you linked is disinformation. The honor rates are verifiably correct by anyone putting in a modicum of effort into finding the facts. Kills are awarding TBC accurate honor. Battleground objectives award honor equivalent to the honor from kills and are also correct:
The only time a kill awarded more than 20.9 honor at any point during original TBC, was when a lower level killed a higher level. For example, this level 65 killing a level 70 gets 25 honor:
Here’s the bonus honor from EOTS:
Kills are worth 20.9 honor in a level 70 vs 70 situation split between all nearby party/raid members or players who participated in the kill, as it’s always been.
Bonus video of HK’s awarding 4-21 a kill in an AB depending on how many people are around. You can see him getting 20 honor ticks for AB resources;
You don’t need to believe me, just look. Just go to youtube on your own and look at videos uploaded in 2007 or 2008. Just look.
If you aren’t playing the game to have fun you should probably play a different game.
THIS IS WHY I LOVE CLASSIC. One of the reasons retail has crashed is they catered to players who didn’t want to play the game… they just wanted an easy advantage over other players. They get kicks from destroying people with lower gear ratings.
Don’t want to do the grind don’t do it? Stop focusing on incentives and have fun bro!
To be clear, this is not my outlook…its Blizzard’s doing. Yes. I agree that loot in BGs as a carrot to play them is ridiculous and their choices are whack. We mocked them when they did it the first time. A lot of us were still playing other titles with much better PvP systems but Blizzard wanted to “catch you all” and rely on the fanaticism of brand new MMO players who accepted the mediocrity of other poorly designed WoW mechanics.
I’ve never looked to BGs or arenas with any seriousness, ever. But, others have fun which is great - but to think they spent a ton of effort to perfect them is obviously naive - and to expect them to fix it on a legacy relaunch is well: “optimistic” is the nice word to use.
To be horde, crying about queues because you want your bis now, along with your bis racials…I mean LOL how many posts have been started on this since the first time around? How many times did they change a darn thing?
You are willing to waste away hours of your life standing in line for DOA blue gear, because some parse nerd, spreadsheet, private server “guru” or Youtube parrot said you are doomed without it…
And I have a “worst” outlook?
I interrupted fishing to write this, so pardon if I’m a little grumpy sounding 
Here’s an update on what the god awful honor rates are doing to the community:
Lot of people just openly quitting when presented with a 300+ hour barrier of entry to try to be competitive in arena. Very cool.
Some people have begun to multibox opposite faction characters near a graveyard to just spam kill the characters on respawn since this is unironically faster than queueing BGs. Healthy behavior for sure.
Others have just given up on PvP gearing entirely and say they’ll just get 2 sets of gear from PvE and gem one set with pure resilience to try to compete in PvP.
Although less common, I’m also starting to see intentional losemades (premades throwing games on purpose to lose as fast as possible) who lose as many BGs as fast as possible just to try to get more marks to turn in for the Concerted Efforts quest.
At a time when Blizzard INCREASED the arena points gained by lower rated teams for TBC Classic as one of their arena/PvP changes, it’s mind blowing to me they can look at this honor grind and not do anything about it.