Alterac Valley in Classic

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
2096

No to 1.12 AV - From 2005 me, “kkthnxbai”.

1 Like
2097

If anything, A.V 1.12 is worse than A.V 2.3 with reinforcements, and this is very sad to say as reinforcements were an absolute terrible addition.

Do you know why Blizzard added reinforcements and adjusted the B.G in Burning Crusade? Because from the 1.12 version to the 2.2 version, the Alliance won up to 70-80% of the A.Vs while the two others BGs were closer to 50% winrate. After the changes in 2.2, Alliance was still winning 60%. Kalkan a.k.a Tom Chilton himself announced this prior to the 2.2.
The map hugely favors the alliance in the zerg rush and it was extremely popular by TBC.

When 2.3 hit, the Horde was hugely favored this time around, although it took a while to understand the strategy needed for them to win: Turtle at Iceblood and wait for the reinforcement to wear down. Even then, the alliance was still winning a good amount of AV, as they just needed to cap the southern graveyards for the horde to fall back and having their defense at Iceblood weakened.
Funnily enough, the Alliance literally boycotted the BG and blizzard adjusted the entrance of the horde cave within a month or a couple of months while it took them a year to address the issue of 1.12.

So no, 1.12 is an absolute mistake to do and the solution to avoid is to go further back in time with an anterior version like 1.5 or 1.8.
There is no way to avoid the zerg rush in Classic, and even if the horde turtles, it is easy for the alliance to sneak through and tag the southern graveyards.

3 Likes
2098

Yeah i’d love to see your numbers for that massive 80% alliance win rate pre 2.3.

Horde had that win rate post 2.3 briefly before alliance yes boycotted the BG. Blizzard never tweaked AV because of the boycott they just let the fact that horde were cool with losing in a zerg ride.

And sneaking through and tagging GY’s that’s not how a zerg works… that’s you know actual pvp strategy that can be countered by pvp. If a handful of stealthers cap a GY and your side doesn’t take it back that is your fault not the fault of the map.

2099

Nop, Horde never reached 80% win rate in A.V during TBC. They were favored but Alliance was still winning a fair amount. And Blizzard did change the entrance of the cave because of the boycott.

I did not say sneaking past was a zerg rush, I meant that even if the horde would try preventing the rush by turtling; they would eventually lose because people would just sneak past through them to tag the southerns GY.
How can you say “It’s not fault of the map” when it is widely known that 2 mages can defend the alliance bridge by themselves and not even rogues can sneak through?

I will find you the data from TBC, find me the one saying horde had 80% after 2.3. Unfortunately, for the moment, I only have an article from an online video game quoting Kalgan but their direct link to his statement is dead. So I am trying to find his statement again… I am 99% I am correct on this though; prior to 2.2 the alliance was winning up to 70/80% of AVs.

2100

As I recall at the time they said some battle groups were 40-60 win ratios but that over all it evened out.

And what is your explanation for alliance boycotting the BG post reinforcements if not that it guaranteed horde a win unless both sides zerged?

2101

PLEASE use an older version of AV than 1.12, make people have to do things other than zerg the end boss… :frowning:

5 Likes
2102

This is a big miststep for the devs to use the 1.12 version of AV. That is not the version of AV that people are lovingly remembering. I’d much prefer the 1.5-1.6 version, 1.8 was alright but having korrak on the flag wasn’t the best since most didn’t even want that graveyard. Having him out the field of strife as an obstacle was much much better. They also removed a ton of NPC’s in 1.8, which made it easier to zerg passed things.

1.5 was where it’s at. Mobs were hard enough you needed to group up and help each other to get things done. The minelayers were fantastic at messing up people just trying to run through. It was just much more frontline vs frontline holding while stealth units and backlines completed quests to get NPC’s to help break the enemy lines.

1.12 version of AV is after they started turning that BG into the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. Zergs would run by each other in a rush to kill the enemy general first and along the way a few would stop an cap the essential points. Since most of the NPC’s were taken out it was an easy run and due to nerfs combined with raid gear the NPC general and his guards were pushovers. I remember v1.12 of AV very well, it wasn’t fun and that carried over into BC where things just got worse.

Not having the AV version that most associate with classic is truly sad. People want that BG that goes on for hours or even days. It was all about pride for your faction and not wanting the enemy to win, that was course was ruined by streamlining AV and the mark of honor grind. I can only say that I’m extremely sad they are including the absolute worst version from the Classic era.

8 Likes
2103

That is 1.12 right? Looks like a speed zerg instance run.

2104

I am ok with any AV version they want to give us as long as I can get my Unstoppable Force and Immoveable Object! lol

Wait, I responded without reading most of the posts. I was trying to be cute. However, the AV I am most fond of is the one where you would spend 8 hours in, logout for bed, get up the next morning and log into the same AV you left! lol.

I would prefer the AV that was more PvP and not the zerging!

4 Likes
2105

Yes it is. Premade or not, that’s what everyone is conditioned to do now so it won’t take much coordination.

1 Like
2106

Classic cannot be a complete Vanilla experience without the true Alterac Valley. Please Blizzard, rethink this decision.

4 Likes
2107

The decision to use 1.12 will not effect my decision to play Classic. What it will do is effect how long I play Classic. After I reach exalted with AV I will have no reason to ever return. If they use 1.5-1.8 AV I will continue to join the BG and play long after I hit exalted as I do enjoy playing what feels like a on going war.

7 Likes
2108

Whatever version of AV used to take all day to win is the one I really REALLY want to play.

There has been nothing like it since in any game i’ve experienced online. Whoever designed the original AV take a bow, it was some of the most memorable PVP I had with friends even when we lost most of the time.

Judging by how hot this topic is, I suspect we will see some kind of changes to AV by the time it launches.

7 Likes
2109

The solution is simple. Do weekend events with old school Alterac Valley. The guy in this video brings up a lot of good points btw:

7 Likes
2110

The better solution is to have the race version of 1.12 in for a couple months and then have the OG version from there on out. Those who dislike any version of it can get their loot and never have to play it again, and those who like the actual BG can have the better gameplay version.

2 Likes
2111

I can’t speak for others, but I loved the LONG battles. I hope we don’t lose that.

6 Likes
2112

Not implementing marks of honor would go a long way towards that, as well as returning AV to an earlier state of it’s core elements.

2114

Just to reiterate, I would like early AV.

2 Likes
2115

Yep, still would like AV 1.7 Blizz!!!

At the least, just make two versions and give the community a high five!

Please? :mage:

2 Likes
2116

Happy 2000th post, gnome.