AV Cave Rez situation

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

My post history marked it as a reply to me and it shows my image on it. Weird lol.

[Graal-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Puth-grobbulus

have you even tried all the strats that people have suggested? doubt it

Are you kidding? Alliance have tried everything. We’ve tried rushing IBGY, rushing SFGY, wait until horde arrive at SHGY and wipe them then rush IBGY or SFGY, try to send the main force all the way down to FWGY or RH, fight horde in FoS and then push to IBGY, sit at SHGY and farm for riders/druids and push with those. The game is about graveyards and to a lesser extent towers/bunkers and there’s only so many of those.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

And yet you are asking for a pre 1.5 version.

Please cite where I did so. I have repeatedly and at length expressed that 1.7 was the high water mark of AV content, and is the patch that I would have loved to have gotten. I have NEVER asked for pre 1.5.
AV was getting buffs and fixes all the way up to and including 1.7.

Edit: meant to post this in this thread:

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Not really, one instanced BG map is hardly that important.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

What else is there to say at this point, blizzard made this post specifically to address the issue of AV. And they made it clear that like everything else in classic they’re going to be using 1.12. At this point asking for changes to 1.12 AV is no different than asking for class balance changes.

Now if the people who are interested in 1.5 AV want to have a general discussion about changes to 1.12 great. Until then 1.12 as is, #nochanges.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

/shrug and this is where you blame the map instead of the players. Despite that there were plenty of games where a lot of pvp happened in 1.12.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

1.12 as is, #nochange

@Ziryus-doomhammer

If it’s not in the state it was in 1.12 it’s a change.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Exactly if you want a huge long lasting fight don’t let the other faction rush. You know pvp in a BG.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Then play some D and prevent the zerg.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

You don’t need 40 people to break a zerg, a handful of people can do it.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Yes it was extremely common in WSG and AB that if you wanted a specific strat you would need to rally the rest or at least some the rest of the team.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Sure they do, it was not uncommon for people in WSG or AB to give up after an initial bad start.

Motivating people to continue after that point is no different than defending against a zerg in AV.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

No you are conflating reinforcement values with 1.11 AV values. Playing D or at least breaking the zerg was a very successful strat in 1.11, it didn’t become a bad idea until after reinforcements.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

Except avoiding pvp is not a successful strat if the other side seeks it out. Now if both sides avoid pvp you basically have a coin toss.

But one side playing D while the other doesn’t actually favors the side playing D in 1.11+. Something that fundamentally changed with reinforcements. That is what you are not understanding.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

you have no clue how to play AV in 1.11 and no clue what the actual impact of reinforcements was. For example you seem to have no clue that if both sides zerg but one side plays just a little D and messes up the other side’s zerg that team wins but in reinforcement world that’s not the case.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

That you think AV 1.11 is the same as AV post reinforcements really just shows how clueless you are.

One of my all time favorites:

@Ziryus-doomhammer

2.3 was a BC patch not a wrath patch, and the mechanics of 2.3 as far as reinforcements go are what exist to today. If we got the same kind of BC we got for vanilla it would have reinforcements.

And as for the actual discussion about when AV really changed in regards to reinforcements and how that impacts classic it doesn’t matter whether that happened in BC or Wrath.

Just that reinforcements created the current retail situation you are whining about not 1.11.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

reinforcements are what turned AV into a rush or die game not the removal of NPC’s.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

But if horde play D alliance loses by default, when that started to happen alliance simply stopped queuing. And that’s where we are today, both sides simply zerg because there is no alternative.

That is 100% because of reinforcements.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

We’re not getting reinforcements so we’re not getting the zerg version.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

AV didn’t turn into a zerg until reinforcements were added.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

The people claiming they can’t stop a zerg seem to be mostly people who are just lazy and or bad at pvp.

@Ziryus-doomhammer

sneaking through and tagging GY’s that’s not how a zerg works… that’s you know actual pvp strategy that can be countered by pvp. If a handful of stealthers cap a GY and your side doesn’t take it back that is your fault not the fault of the map.

I think this one is a good place to stop:

@Ziryus-doomhammer

In 1.12 playing D and breaking the zerg is an actual viable strategy for both sides that can lead to winning, after reinforcements it wasn’t.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

And no mention of stealth squads, distraction based soft caps, exc.

[Darthjaedr-tichondrius]

This isn’t a tough issue to solve. No horde cave rez until they lose FWGY and alliance who die at SFGY get sent to SHGY instead of DB. No alliance cave rez until we lose DB. boom done AV is now much closer to a fair fight and people might actually q for it.

[Misadventure-herod]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

And no mention of stealth squads, distraction based soft caps, exc.

Also Zyrius:

@Ziryus-doomhammer

sneaking through and tagging GY’s that’s not how a zerg works… that’s you know actual pvp strategy that can be countered by pvp. If a handful of stealthers cap a GY and your side doesn’t take it back that is your fault not the fault of the map.

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

i have spent over a decade winning av as alliance to believe all of u losers claiming u can’t win it.

u all just suck

[Graff-nathrezim]

@Darthjaedr-tichondrius

No horde cave rez until they lose FWGY

Should be the the Relief Hut, not FWGY.

[Graff-nathrezim]

@Saasquatch-winterhoof

over a decade winning av as alliance

Back when the horde tried to rush, yes we could win those. Now that they turtle 100% it’s a much different situation. Learn the game.

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

turtling at sh gy isn’t a path to victory lol

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

Wonder why we do this meta?

Could it have been the eight months prior to this where we still couldn’t win no matter our strat?

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

if u can’t beat them in pvp, you are going to lose no matter what u try to do

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Saasquatch-winterhoof

if u ca n’t beat them in pvp, you are going to lose no matter what u try to do

Right and since alliance do in fact do just fine on the other two maps we know it’s not that alliance just suck.

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

my point exactly. stop thinking u can’t win because of bs map problems

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Saasquatch-winterhoof

my point exa ctly. stop thinking u can’t win because of bs map problems

Exactly we know we can’t win in AV because of very real map problems.

[Drinknblink-whitemane]

Not that easy to keep IBGY when they Rez 20 at a time 20 seconds away and you Rez AT BEST 50 seconds away 10 at a time.

They can literally reinforce IBGY 3X faster and with more players than we can, which is why you don’t see games go to IBGY because you can’t hold it against those odds.

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

wow just wow

have you never seen the alliance take and hold ibgy? and then take fwgy?

and then win?

[Hawne-blaumeux]

In an matchup of equal comps, that only happens if horde plays braindead zug zug offense with 30+ at SH GY and doesn’t defend IB GY with 15-20 early enough in the 5 minute counter to get 2-3 respawns from the cave.

Absolutely no way alliance should be able to hold IB GY against an equivalent horde team playing defense.

Not a viable strategy against a horde team that knows the map.

[Graff-nathrezim]

Ahh, we have another troll, folks! Ignore away.

[Saasquatch-winterhoof (Saasquatch)]

someone who thinks i have to lose av must be a troll