Alterac Valley in Classic

[Tihealy-thrall]

Makes 1.5 AV a weekend thing(as it was suggested multiple times)

[Prufinnor-wyrmrest-accord]

How about making 1.12 the special occasion version so the loot junkies can suffer through the BG they hate as quickly as possible, and then return to the better, more fleshed out, version with longevity?

[Dazlidor-ravenholdt]

Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill.

This is the exact mentality that got WoW in the state it is today. Everything is just too easy and dumbed down.

I don’t remember which version I liked its been over a decade. But judging by this sentence I’m concerned. And dont think for a second this is about nostalgia, this is about a challenging and interesting game play. AV is not about whoever gets to the boss first wins, its about whoever is most prepared first wins.

[Carfo-stormrage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhKkP8LryYM (blizzcon’s classic panel “restoring history”) around 6:50 in, Omar states the farthest database they could go back to was 1.12 or “slightly before”. This means that the code for the “good” AV is lost forever, and in order to bring it back, Blizzard would have to re-create it as it was based on patch notes and such. Since they don’t have the original code, that means no reference client. Everything would be completely based on speculation. I think that’s the real reason we’re getting 1.12 AV, notwithstanding the fact that the patch itself in classic is 1.12

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

and in order to bring it back, Blizzard would have to re-create it as it was based on patch notes and such.

Oh no, not actual work.

Look, they managed to do sweeping changes of AV 15 years ago from patch to patch. These sweeping changes have been discussed at length on the forums. If the company 15 years later cannot be bothered to recreate ONE version of early AV, then perhaps they need to fire the lot and hire some that can.

Nothing pisses me of quite like people using the “dog ate the code” defense to excuse blizzard’s milquetoast approach to this project. It reeks of lack of vision, lack of commitment, and lack of effort.

[Stabystabs-zuljin]

The goal here is to protect their IP and be able to more easily shut down private servers, with a side-goal of this boosting/maintaining subscription numbers.

They’re doing what it takes to get 1.12 running with as little effort as possible. I’m not saying they’re lazy. But they know the goal here is first and foremost IP protection.

Anyone arguing differently honestly isn’t worth listening to. Because they’re not here to do a whole bunch of extra work trying to recreate things, when they can just pull a later version and copy/paste (I know the process is harder, just generalizing) instead of completely recreating old content from memory.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

instead of completely recreating old content from memory.

They have patch notes, and someone, somewhere, has to have the meeting notes and lists of changes that were to be done before changes were coded. They did not make sweeping changes on the fly without directives.

We are talking about a single, instanced BG, not a game-wide redesign from scratch.

[Deloch-thrall]

Let’s see, things that haven’t been removed. No Towers were removed, no GY’s were removed, the mini leaders were not removed, plenty of NPC’s are still wandering around, mines are still around. Seems like there’s a ton of stuff still there besides just the bosses.

It’s almost like you could make this same stupid argument for BFA vs Vanilla.

Let’s see, Warriors haven’t been removed, leveling hasn’t been removed, plenty of quests still…

I guess it’s the same game!

[Carfo-stormrage]

Not just actual work, but since the database isn’t there all the details such as mob damage, HP…basically all the coding would have to be recreated from memory. At least with the 1.12 client they have a reference client to compare with. The original AV is simply gone.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I doubt very much that they do not have the info from early AV iterations.

IMHO, “clarity” = do not want to put any effort into it beyond the easiest iteration to produce.

[Stallöwned-gilneas]

1.0 AV or bust

[Balanor-maelstrom (Balanor)]

I feel like we’re overestimating the difficulty they would have of spawning some more NPCs and tweaking their damage. It might be guess work, but I would imagine it’s an “educated guess” at the very least. They got from 1.12 the data on how mobs generally work. How “hit” works when a mob is 3 levels higher, parry chance, crit etc… They just have to tweak raw damage and health numbers, some of which could even be available in old public databases.

There’s nothing too complicated about the NPCs, but their presence is important for encouraging player behavior back into the original mindset, not the rush mindset.

[Minnette-kargath]

AV 1.5-1.8 please. I do not want to be stuck with AV 1.12 for the entirety of my time in Classic. If we wanted the race we could log on to retail and play the race right now! Warts and all Blizzard! We want that feeling of a epic battle!

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

I feel like we’re overestimating the difficulty they would have of spawning some more NPCs and tweaking their damage.

Heck, I bet the Nost guys would probably volunteer to do the heavy lifting on it and blizzard could tweak the stats. Nost handed over their code. How difficult would it be to have them transfer over the AV code and shore it up?

[Nazalite-illidan]

Korak the Bloodrager was removed

But Blizzard, we can’t access Korrak the Bloodrager in Zul’Drak, so you may as well give him a home in Alterac Valley.

Besides, I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of players want the hard AV, not the mindless rush AV. Why make it easy? For people grinding Rank 14? They will be pvping nonstop REGARDLESS.

We want original AV. I am super hyped for Classic. The reason so many people are hyped for Classic is because its just a better game than WoW in its current state. WoW’s decline is, in part, attributable to changes that took away the immersion of its RPG element.

Ask yourself, which has better immersion? Two armies totally bypassing each other to assassinate the enemy leader ASAP, or two armies defending their fortress and attacking their enemy’s fortress?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Korak the Bloodrager was removed

But Blizzard, we can’t access Korrak the Bloodrager in Zul’Drak, so you may as well give him a home in Alterac Valley.

Besides, I think it is safe to say that the vast majority of players want the hard AV, not the mindless rush AV. Why make it easy? For people grinding Rank 14? They will be pvping nonstop REGARDLESS.

We want original AV.

Except the original AV was so unpopular during vanilla it only lasted a few months.

[Nazalite-illidan]

Except the original AV was so unpopular during vanilla it only lasted a few months.

The people who will be playing for more than a few months are the ones who want original AV. The kinds of people who get triggered by these types of things are going to be the tourists. They will log in on launch, play around a bit, and decide its not for them and that they prefer BfA. Thats fine dude. But catering to those types of people is a huge mistake.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Except the original AV was so unpopular during vanilla it only lasted a few months.

The people who will be playing for more than a few months are the ones who want original AV. The kinds of people who get triggered by these types of things are going to be the tourists. They will log in on launch, play around a bit, and decide its not for them and that they prefer BfA. Thats fine dude. But catering to those types of people is a huge mistake.

What makes you think that? Plenty of people played during vanilla for more than a few months.

[Nazalite-illidan]

What makes you think that? Plenty of people played during vanilla for more than a few months.

Yes, but that was the only iteration of the game. There will be many wow players who prefer BfA and do not stick around for the entirety of the Classic re-release. THOSE are the people who aren’t going to like original AV.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

What makes you think that? Plenty of people played during vanilla for more than a few months.

Yes, but that was the only iteration of the game. There will be many wow players who prefer BfA and do not stick around for the entirety of the Classic re-release. THOSE are the people who aren’t going to like original AV.

Except a lot of people playing during vanilla didn’t like the original AV as well, why do you think it was changed in the first place, during vanilla?

Or were all the players during vanilla who didn’t like original AV just time walking BFA players?