[Extension Mod] Better Game Balance(v5.0)

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It’s available on all servers. All changes are ready for implementation…

Changes

Terran - TvP Mech (Hellbat, Cyclone, Raven)

The goal of these Terran changes is to make TvP Mech more viable, without making Mech more powerful in TvZ and TvT.

Hellbat

  • Hellbat biological attribute tag removed

Hellbats now no longer take bonus damage from Archons, this allows the Hellbat survive longer in engagements against Protoss ground armies that have Archons in them. This greatly helps Mech and even Bio against Zealot-Archon in TvP.

Additionally this means Hellbats cannot be targeted by the Ghosts Steady Targeting ability, can’t be healed by Medivacs and doesn’t take bonus damage from Spore Crawlers.

Cyclone

  • Range increased from 5 to 6

This changes makes it so Cyclones will always stay behind the 5 range Hellions when attacking regardless if the Cyclone is auto-attacking or using Lock On(7 range). It also gives Hellion-Cyclone-Tank very similar playstyle dynamics and feel to Vulture-Goliath-Tank from Broodwar.

Raven

  • Cost decreased from 100/200 to 100/150

Ravens can now be more easily added to mid-late game Mech army compositions as support due to the reduced the gas cost.

Zerg - Ultralisk

Ultralisk

  • Push Priority increased from 10 to 11

Ultralisk can now push all units in front of it out of the way. Ultralisk can now be mixed into any Zerg ground composition without ending up stuck dancing behind them during engagements because of pathing issues.

Protoss - Mid game Adepts, PvP Sentrys, PvP Disruptors

The goal of these Protoss changes are to make Protoss better in PvZ and PvP, without making them stronger in TvP.

Adept

  • Can now target air units

The Adept now has significantly more mid-late game utility and core unit viability, as a Stalker alternative and complement for AA. It can be used as a response to Mutalisk and Locust in ZvP, Phoenix and Interceptors in PvP, Ravens and Banshees in PvT. In mid-late game PvT fights they can also be used to shade under sieged Liberators and in early ZvP they can be used to attack overlords similar to what Terran does with Marines in early ZvT. This change has no impact on using the Adept for worker harassment, timing attacks and fighting ground targets.

Sentry

  • Force Field now blocks the Adept Psionic Transfer.
  • Force Field now blocks the Disruptor Purification Nova.

These changes provide more early game stability against Adept timings and provide counter play in the mid-game against Disruptors. The Sentry becomes more viable and vital all game long in PvP.

Disruptors

  • Damage changed from 145(+55 vs Shields) to 145

This change reduces the power of the Disruptor in PvP, the power of Disruptors in numbers in PvP, and reduces the number of game ending moments caused by Disruptors in PvP. Disruptors are now less dominating in the PvP match up, allowing for more PvP ground unit composition variety such as the usage of Colussus.

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You do realize that was not actually a bug right?

The description for Guardian Shield states that it only affects ranged damage, which is a separate damage type. Of course, this probably isn’t a bad change since it mitigates the effect of AAM on Liberators and some other cases.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

It is a bug and I’ll tell you why.

Planetary Fortresses, Sieged Tanks, Liberators(AA mode) and Thors(AA splash mode), Archons, Ultralisk all have attacks that are both ranged and do splash. Guardian Shield is supposed to protect all units inside of it against ranged attacks, this should include any splash damage that those ranged unit attacks do. Since much like the AAM bug, it looks very silly when only 1 of those units is getting the spell effect in the radius.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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Those attacks are intentionally separated into ranged and splash damage components that are treated differently. If the splash damage of a Siege Tank was intended to be treated like regular ranged damage, it would be marked with the ranged damage type instead and Guardian Shield would work on it.

Your change introduces a bug where Guardian Shield reduces damage from Banelings, Hellions, and Hellbats. It does not “fix” anything; nor would it be the right way to fix Tanks, Planetary Fortresses, Liberators, etc if their splash damage components were actually intended to be affected by Guardian Shield.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

You do realize that Guardian Shield has always reduced the damage of units such as the Hellion,Hellbat, Colossus and Lurker right?. Those are the only splash units that both Guardian Shield and AAM worked properly with.

If the splash damage of a Siege Tank was intended to be treated like regular ranged damage, it would be marked with the ranged damage type instead and Guardian Shield would work on it. It does not “fix” anything; nor would it be the right way to fix Tanks, Planetary Fortresses, Liberators, etc if their splash damage components were actually intended to be affected by Guardian Shield.

It’s the same bug that AAM had, it’s not hard to understand. If you get hit by a Tank or a PF or a Liberator, the spell effect should apply to all targets hit with the damage not just the primary target that is being attacked.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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Those units all use search-area effects that directly apply ranged damage directly to each unit. If that behavior is a bug then it would be fixed by changing the damage type of each unit from ranged to splash.

If the other cases (Tanks, Planetary Fortresses, Liberators, etc) are bugs, then those cases would be fixed by changing the damage-type of the splash damage component to ranged damage.

Changing Guardian Shield to affect splash damage is not a valid fix. It explicitly introduces a bug against Banelings and it’s effect differs from the ability’s description. You have no more justification to make Guardian Shield affect splash damage then you do to make it affect melee or spell damage.

AAM was explicitly intended to have the same effect as reducing the target’s armor/shield-armor by 3, so all sources of damage affected by armor were supposed to be affected. When AAM ignored splash damage, it was a bug because the effect is explicitly supposed to affect all sources of damage affected by armor; and splash damage happens to be affected by armor by convention.

Guardian Shield is only intended to affect “ranged” damage, and that is exactly what it currently does. If a unit is intended to be affected by Guardian Shield, then it needs to deal ranged damage instead of splash damage.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I think you are confusing Effect: Kind and Combat: Splash Kind

You are not understanding what I’m saying. All the units I talked about are already doing ranged damage. The primary target is protected by GS, but the other targets around it are not protected by GS.

That is a bug and a big problem.

I do have justification. Splash in SC2 is part of the unit’s attack. To protect 1 unit hit by a splash unit, the rest of the units under the protection spell must also be protected by it.

Also the fact that AAM got fixed, while GS still has the same exact problem.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

Also why are you posting on here TerranicII?. Instead of the other thread?. It seems a little odd.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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I know exactly what I am talking about. I refer to the “damage types” selected by those fields as “damage types” rather than using the exact field name; since it is a more accurate description of what they are. My statements on the issue have been clear throughout.

No, you are the one who does not understand.

Guardian Shield is not supposed to affect any source of damage that is not explicitly marked as “ranged”! Adding “splash” damage to the list of damage types affected by Guardian Shield creates a number of bug and does not fix any.

If the splash damage component of the Siege Tank’s attack was intended to be affected by Guardian Shield, then that portion of the Siege Tank’s attack would have been marked as “ranged” damage rather than “splash” damage. The same is true for Liberators, Planetary Fortresses, and every other relevant unit. Instead, Siege Tanks and the other units that you are complaining about are explicitly setup to deal “ranged” damage to the primary target and “splash” damage to the surrounding units; and they had to be explicitly setup this way too because the default “damage type” for that “splash kind” field is “spell”, not “splash”.

Hellions, Hellbats, Colossus, and Lurkers are affected by Guardian Shield on all targets because they deal “ranged” damage to all targets instead of “splash” damage. Specifically, they apply their damage effect to each target individually by using “search area” effects. These damage effects are set to deal “ranged” damage to their target, so they end up dealing “ranged” damage everything. Interestingly, the “splash kind” field of the Lurker, Hellion, Hellbat, and Colossus damage effects is set to “splash”, so it is entirely possible that their current behavior is a bug and they were intended to deal “splash” damage to all units other than their primary target.

Yes, and it has its own damage type field named “splash kind” that can be explicitly set to “ranged” damage if that component is intended to be affected by Guardian Shield.

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Because this is the thread that listed the changes obviously.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

You mean the thread, and that makes sense.

If the splash damage component of the Siege Tank’s attack was intended to be affected by Guardian Shield, then that portion of the Siege Tank’s attack would have been marked as “ranged” damage rather than “splash” damage. The same is true for Liberators, Planetary Fortresses, and every other relevant unit. Instead, Siege Tanks and the other units that you are complaining about are explicitly setup to deal “ranged” damage to the primary target and “splash” damage to the surrounding units; and they had to be explicitly setup this way too because the default “damage type” for that “splash kind” field is “spell”, not “splash”.**

**Hellions, Hellbats, Colossus, and Lurkers are affected by Guardian Shield on all targets because they deal “ranged” damage to all targets instead of “splash” damage. Specifically, they apply their damage effect to each target individually by using “search area” effects. These damage effects are set to deal “ranged” damage to their target, so they end up dealing “ranged” damage everything. Interestingly, the “splash kind” field of the Lurker, Hellion, Hellbat, and Colossus damage effects is set to “splash”, so it is entirely possible that their current behavior is a bug and they were intended to deal “splash” damage to all units other than their primary target.
Yes, and it has its own damage type field named “splash kind” that can be explicitly set to “ranged” damage if that component is intended to be affected by Guardian Shield.

You are getting way too focused on schematics and less on actual gameplay.

Take a step back and take a deep breath.

Guardian Shield is supposed to protect all units in it from Ranged damage, but not melee or spell. That means that if the Ranged unit does splash, the splash damage should also be reduced to protect the units under it.

Does it make any sense in actual gameplay for GS to only protect 1 unit and not all the other units around that 1 unit from damage coming from a ranged unit?.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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Most sources of splash where the main target is affected “ranged” damage and the subsequent targets are hit by “splash” have outer radii where damage is already reduced. Guardian Shield would be overkill on the 50% or 25% radii of a Siege Tank or Archon for example.

Guardian Shield could also potentially be far too powerful on something like a Liberator where it would build up to a 40% reduction on a large number of targets.

Not melee, spell, or splash. If an effect is defined as “splash” then it is not intended to be affected by Guardian Shield.

That is not correct. Melee units can also deal splash, which is why your change introduces bugs.

Yes it does. Ranged damage and splash are different damage types that can certainly behave differently. This was already the case in Brood War where Dark Swarm only affected ranged damage, but never affected the splash component of any attack.

From a lore perspective, there are also plenty of reasons why the ranged portion of an attack may be affected by Guardian Shield while the splash damage is not. For instance, the plasma from a flamethrower or Colossus laser might be recognized and blocked or slowed (which would affect all targets) and the Tank’s projectile might also be affected, but not the explosion from the Tank’s projectile after it lands.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

If you have to say “But the lore”, you have lost the argument and ran out of ideas.

Explosions have shrapnel, which are projectiles.:thinking:

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

If you had an umbrella and put it over people around you. Shouldn’t they be protected from the rain too?.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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I already gave you a sufficient explanation before that; and even if I happened to agree with you that Siege Tanks or Planetary Fortresses or other splash damage units should be affected by Guardian Shield (and I do not), I would still disagree with your solution to it.

Your solution affects Ultralisks and Banelings that are clearly not intended to be affected by Guardian Shield under any circumstances.

The correct way to address the “problem” would be to change the damage type of the splash damage component of each and every unit that is supposed to be affected from “splash” to “ranged”.

Does that rain explode on impact in every direction after breaking through your umbrella?

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

Have you ever experienced hail?

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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They also have a shockwave which is not; and whatever shrapnel comes from the Tank’s shell may not be affected by the shield that slowed the shot on the way in.

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EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

Did you know PF’s primary damage doesn’t get reduced by Guardian Shield?. That’s the bug that this change fixes.

EDIT: Mod is now updated to v4.259 and no longer has this change

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Hail is not an explosive like a Tank shell that will explode with a fixed amount of force after being detonated.

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Then Guardian Shield probably isn’t intended to affect Planetary Fortresses at all.

Once again, if any source of damage is intended to be affected by Guardian Shield then that source of damage will be marked as “ranged” damage instead of “splash” damage. If the source of damage is “splash”, “melee”, or “spell” then it is not intended to be affected. This is relatively straight-forward and easy to understand.