Dive the Zen if he is an issue. Lucio, Moira, Winston, D.va, Ball, Doom, Genji, Tracer, and Sombra can get the job done. You have to focus problem players or they walk over your whole team. This is hardly exclusive to Zen.
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Trading damage creep for damage creep, no thanks. Take power from discord and give it to his healing. Zen’s damage is already really good if you can land the hits.
Which ones?
Apart from Ball and Sigma, I don’t think tanks ever had this many stats. This is a power creep design issue, tanks are fine, the game around them is forked.
About 120 without discord and 100% accuracy.
Puff puff pass. Discord is the best way to help a team deal with a problem player.
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So you want to nerf his survivability even more with that tank sized hitbox LOL.
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Uh…the ones that have to do with health, and shields?
Such as…?
I’d rather nerf the living daylights out of the problems but I’m listening for ideas.
I tried to read most of this thread, but some of it is… incapable of holding my attention. So I’m sorry if I missed anything valuable or if my suggestions are echoes of the above.
First, I agree burst damage is insane in this game and it needs to reduce, from all sources, and that dmg boosting exacerbates this issue. I also understand there’s a limit to that and nothing ever dying isn’t fun, either. Nor are infinite shields.
Solutions I can think of:
- All boosted (or even bursted) damage is passively mitigated on all tanks by a %. Blanket solution, keeps duelling DPS available, and keeps individuals lethal 1v1. The % could even change tank-to-tank, for balance. Zen 1v1ing nearly any tanks shouldn’t really work out well for him unless they facetank him with no ability usage to close distance. IMO 1v1s with no peel/context aren’t occurring often enough for there to be valid issues with this solution. I’m sure Anti could be looked at here too, but that’s another issue.
- Give all tanks something similar to a WoW PvP cleanse trinket or a small version of a Fortify, Bubble, or Overload. This boosts survivability for a temporary, small period of time and allows us to peek corners or save teammates/make plays. The CD can be whatever and thus adds some timing skill for usage. This solution probably overcomplicates things, but it could be added without changing anything else to the broader game.
- Either reduce crit damage on tanks’ heads, or shrink their critboxes. This obv does nothing for projectile burst, but IDK how much trouble Junk and Pharah are individually causing for this issue, burst is kind of their entire damage kits and is not as accurate as bullets or even icicles on tanks.
Finally:
- Just admit you don’t want tanks to enjoy the game at all and nerfbuff+move them into the DPS category. This feels like where the dev team wants to move, versus doing the work to make playing tank interesting/fun/rewarding. The vast majority of the playerbase either doesn’t tank, has given up on tanking, or just wants to pewpew. I feel like we all desire good tanks in our games, but do we deserve them in contrast to how much ‘fun we want to have’? This is a bit satirical and I’d much prefer the tank role be way more compelling/playable without me having the desire to swap to Roadhog in 80% of my games, but considering they seem to want to make the tanks more ‘brawly’ and take one out anyway, why not rip off the bandaid and just make all of them fat DPS?
I’m not sure what the best solution is, but I can tell you nearly all 5 tank players that remain in this game get so sick of the 
we constantly have to deal with, including stacking nerfs to the role in 2022 when the playerbase has almost completely evaporated or are smurfing their genitals off due to the drought of utter boredom.
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I mean they have shown us plenty of footage of the game running in both PVE and PVP, with live demo’s of each at one point or another. This isn’t a kick starter scammer situation were they are hype day one and disappear never to be seen.
Like we have seen a full house of functional PVE enemies each with unique gimmicks, formations, and entrance animations depending on the environment.
Like their was a scene in the Latter PVE update where the laser cutter enemies from the first PVE event were cutting through a skyscraper by the dozens zerge rush style. Or the standered trooper bots that were otherwise dropped from the sky, were coming off an assembly line while the enemy ship.
Which overall content wise they have presented a story mode mission, the more repeatable and easily craftable Hero missions which seem to playing on a very left for dead type of gameplay. A borderlands styled upgrade system that is unlocking new abilities, passives, and generally new play styles for your favorite heroes.
The latter has probably been the most scattered info, as their isn’t one central place to pull in all of that info. Like did you know their was bit where mercy was shooting energy rockets out of her staff? Like their pushing into battle mercy as a pve playstyle.
So like they have shown a respectable amount of what their working on, more so then what most companies would with.
The PVP side of things, or the component that is definitely more scrutinizable do to the base line understanding of the game we have at the moment.
Is well a bit harder to show, primarily because the thing people want most out of it the new heroes. Are the content they have to be keep locked in key, as it’s what will create the most hype. And well releasing stuff like that to early basically kills any interest in the content when it actually comes around.
Like are you even remotely interested in Sojourn? At least to the degree you were when it was first announced?
Be it outside of that the reworks in Rien, Winston, Brig, Sombra, and the tid bits of stuff their adding to the game now is well a great example of the direction their pushing the game.
Which from the pro footage looks great, at least if your looking for the changes in game flow and interactions. So many people glazed over it then whined about not giving us more info, and act like i’m the fool when I point it out. (Basically, the I’m going to refuse to look at the evidence, and stick to my first gut reaction approach).
(This happened to me a lot when I pointed out that sombra still took about .7 seconds or so to leave stealth, that in turn limited her from following up on 1 second period were the tank couldn’t use abilities)
Of course bobby didn’t help matters much in getting the product out their, neither did covid, and the other horrible people making the actual employees lives miserable.
But the Devs have showed their work, regardless of what you might believe.
I’m going to just repeat myself because you royally missed the point by a galaxy-wide metric here.
“OW2 may be so good as to usher a new age of enlightenment on humankind, but right now, it is as useful to us players as a picture of food is to a starving man.”
We have problems now and they are not new, they didn’t just start last week, they have existed for years, and devs are still patching the game making it WORSE as recent as this month.
This is like being in a massive car crash, calling emergency services and get told “In car 2.0 things will be a lot better.”
“okay but I need an ambulance here someone is hurt badly…”
“Our engineers are working very hard, check our latest trailer to see how car 2.0 will address that, bye!”.
How so? Is it how Cassidy air rolling gets him out of certian CC, Riens ult doing damage, Hanzo’s bouncing storm arrows that at best lets him blind fire around a corner?
What balance change made the game worse, I want to know.
Also like I hate to break it to you but the state of OW is now not an emergency, most of casual crowd (the vast majority of the player base mind you) left years ago even before they ended content updates. And those new heroes, reworks, skins and events, were still leaking players like a lot of modern MMO’s do. (unless your ff14) OW was slowly fading in the first place. And ultimately wasn’t sustainable how it was.
That’s not to say it couldn’t have kept up the new content, Events, heroes, PVE missions, and more. It’s just that if they didn’t do a big refresh like OW2 and take the time to make such major changes, they most likely would never had a chance to really to do so. At least not in a time frame that would actually matter.
At the end of the day OW is an entertainment product, and people obviously had issues with it.
As such their taking the time to address it.
If you don’t want to wait, then leave M8. Go play something else till their ready. You being here isn’t going to change anything. Nor is complaining about issues their already trying to address doing anything but portentially add more pressure to the dev team, that themselves are dealing with horrible management. (And now deadlines for april)
Be it that if you want to critic the changes they are making, be my guess. But like complaining about the game that the devs have told you their not going to support to any considerable degree. Then well your kind of yelling at a brick wall.
When Zen is easily killable it becomes basically a non issue or a skill check. The problem arises when you have characters and abilities that consistently easily peel him and remove his weaknesses like Brig, Cree, Sig, Dva and Bap lamp do currently.
I’m not saying zen isn’t overtuned, but when the game is fast paced, and he doesn’t have a lot to peel him he falls off significantly. I think the real fix is address the surplus of peel abilities and heroes so we see some dive and rush come back to run over high damage high sustain spam comps.
You are only looking at masters+ pick rates. Try looking at the other ranks and Rein hasn’t faded at all. In fact in lower ranks he has nearly double the pick rate of any other tank.
Mainly because lower can’t play without a shield although 3/4 of the time are never behind
Rein ult damage: More burst damage.
Torb’s shotgun: More tank busting.
Hanzo’s Boucing betty: It’s Storm Arrows with bouncing.
Lol, here’s a list I used to maintain:
Every balance change by hero logged - General Discussion - Overwatch Forums
Off the top of my head, we had, in 2021, CC buffs in Halt, Meteor Strike, and more burst damage in remech bullcrap, more power creep in the Soldier buffs and Hog buffs, all small changes that compound existing issues.
Wanna me to do 2020? I bit faded but I recall Window buff, Mei’s CC buff, 2 Storm Arrow’s buffs, Halt CC buffs too, power creeping Rein with 85 damage… Boy late 2020 was wild.
I did leave. My profile is public. I haven’t played in a long time, the camels back broke in May, although I did try to get the Winston event skin somewhere along the way. Tried and failed, because the game was so garbage.
I’ve gotten Game Pass, been playing a bunch of stuff, Apex, Deep Rock, I even 100% Crash remake trilogy, a bunch of racing games (2008 GRID holds up, royally). But Overwatch kept on crapping on its own already-very-fertilized bed.
Apex devs patched their broken hero in 45 days, imagine that.
Apparently, there’s a reason to provide feedback, although you may have a point there since ignoring it is another one of this company’s failure.
What an unexpected stupid low blow. Unnecessarily muddying the waters after shamefully missing a glaring point, a weak attempt to save face by throwing an important, real life issue into a discussion about freaking Discord Orb. Congratulations, you have reached a new low for the forums.
Rest assured, everyone here knows Blizzard has terrible unethical abusive leadership that couldn’t screw in a light bulb without 15 man committee approved by a pig named Kotick - that is true but it doesn’t shine any light on the terrible patching this game has had in the past couple of years.
I’ve been a fan of this company since they were called Silicon & Synapse and unfortunately there’s quite literally nothing I can do for the devs. I don’t work in the industry, I don’t run WilmerHale, I’m not even in the same continent and worst of all, Kotick already got my money because the game is already paid for, it’s not like I can kick him in the nuts from where I sit.
But if you’d like me to offer a word of support, which is all I can realistically do, they can have it for whatever little it is worth, in fact it is already theirs (1, 2, 3).
None of that changes the fact that problems are piling up in this game and that Overwatch 2’s marketing - hard worked marketing still marketing - does not make my comp queues faster, nor the game experience better or any arcade mode more fun until it is actually here.
So if we are to keep getting patches - which we just did - then critiques upon it are fair game.
discord is in the holy trinity of “wtf were they thinking” abilities.
Discord, hack (guilty as charged, love it) and brig repair pack.
First one is just a “press F” button for the receiver, on a toggle
Second one ranges from annoying to downright jailtime.
Third one is the most infuriating healing ability. Has barely any visual effect and you suddenly see the guy with the flimsiest hp bar go back to full hp while you’re still dealing damage to them. Again, on a toggle. Telepathy healing isn’t really on the good design.tm field.
(Dog has been walked)
I mean at the end of the day if you were close enough to land a point blank shatter, you were close enough secure a kill in the first place. Be it two swings and fire strike, or Charge. At least outside of teamwork situations with Zarya, as grav shatter is now a kill combo. Which is cool in my opinion.
if anything this is a consistency boost situation, were you can confirm kills more so in places where you couldn’t get away with a charge. Be it that rien especially is the king of burst damage, at least for the tanks he has the most damage tools in the game.
This one is a little odd, as it doesn’t really change to the TTK on tanks. As with 3 ammo per shot out of 18 gave him 750 points of damage (pod) before he had to reload, which was enough to kill hog in one clip. ontop of getting past armor.
Of course this took him 4.8 seconds to empty a clip point blank orginally. Which it takes him the same amount of time with 2 ammo per shot to do the same amount of damage. Just that he doesn’t have to reload for another three shots.
TLDR if you were dying to torb before this won’t change much, if not you still have the same TTK timer as originally. Be it that if you were looking to punish his reload, you have to count to 9 instead of 6 shots.
??? halt radius got significantly smaller, for the trade of it moving faster. That and the time you were held by the CC was reduced.
Was it the buff that increases his cooldowns in air? as thats the only I’ve seen that is currently still in the game.
Don’t stand next to the baby d.va, like she has 150hp. and has the normal movement speed. like you can fire strike and swing by the time the mech actually comes down, also stunning her makes her lose the ultimate.
Like if you killed by it, then that is ultimately your fault.
Wow I can’t believe the buffed windows! but joking aside widow at least in her current state lost 25 hp, got a fall off damage applied to her gun to prevent grapple hook cross map headshots kills. And had the charge rate on her sniper rifle nerfed. Like she at the moment is in the weakest state she has ever been.
Meh soldier is still one of the worst DPS in the game, Like last OWL the only heroes played less then him were junk rat, hog, and bastion (poor 0% pickrate bastion). Like he is basically a sustain fire sniper, that needs to land his helix to really confirm kills. Which is an issue at any range that isn’t short to mid, do to it moving like a Pharah rocket.
His only gimmick at the moment is that he is OK at pressuring barriers at long LOS, ( which can be avoided via flank routes on every point.) Or running into said flank routes and trying to get a cheeky kill in the back line.
Overall his damage on armor is worse then most burst options, and actually struggles when there are multiple single target healers. Like ana mercy/moria completely outdoes his damage against armor.
Hog was nerfed ultimately last I’ve seen, as he lost the firerate buff he had back in the day. While his damage was brought down from 7 to 6.6 a pellet. He did get a buff that reduced ultcharge gain by the enemy shooting at him by 25%, something the community has been asking for a while now.
I mean outside of the Peirce freeze, her cc (time to freeze) was ultimately nerfed from what it was during the goats Era. She also lost her ability to be healed while in ice block, also had multiple nerfs to her walls health and hit box size so people can squeeze through it.
I mean outside of the the storm arrow cancel, or the ricochet buff. (which in it’s self isn’t much use, wish they put that on his main arrows instead) they increased the rate of fire of storm arrow from .3 to .25. making it so that all five fly at 1.25 seconds instead of 1.5. Honestly not sure about this one. As he is getting an extra shot off in that one second mark.
But I will say that hanzo is no where as strong as people think he his, as he has one of the lowest DPS in the game. And even tho he can pop 350 real quick with storm arrow. But after that he is effectively reloading after every arrow with a .5 cooldown after every shot, and then charging for .8 seconds for full damage.
I mean community feed back is great in regaurds to how people feel towards the game, not so much in regards to actual changes. (Like the infamous into the gungeons change, were the Dev changed the sound file on a gun everyone claimed was overpowered. then suddenly was just fine, and balanced) 
That and players on this forum have no clear one direction they want the game to go in, most just want their heroes to be the best. Or the game to revolve around one comp style, and anything that challenges it most go.
Or when their is a consistent thread it’s something along the lines of generic complaints like x does to much damage and I got mowed down in less then a second.
just to look at their vids and watch them walk into the open Miss three shots on ana, then get punished by the hanzo headshot. That in it’s self stole the kill from a rien that just began a charge.
Or a lucio that dived into a McBurger, got stunned and died. then blamed the power creep (this was before the .5 damage nerfed.)
Their are genuine complaints, espeically when nerfs had to be made because of ability stacking. Or actual decent criticism by people that can write more then 40 words in a post, but that is usually few and far between.
Eh I’ve had my criticism called worse, Like I purposely didn’t touch on the actual horrid stuff that happen. Just ultimately the bad leadership that lead to the delay primarily. Of course it did ultimately come off more emotional then Intended.
As that came from a bit of my personal frustrations from my own projects, Like I had an investor pull out because I didn’t update a concept build with the listed progress I was making to the actual kick starter build I was making. (Was like a month in working with contract artist)
Ultimately, I had to give back like 2,100 of the 2,300 he gave me which considering that he was like one of two investors that hit my art budget goal. well the project went dead real quick. Refunded the other one to, He got all they money back so at least it wasn’t on thier expense. (the platform owners had to apologies to me and offered to reopen the listing, but like people it got nowhere fast for it being on the page a second time)
But overall like what happens with the current game doesn’t really matter at this point, how happy we are now is ultimately not important as what our feedback is going to be with the eventual OW2 beta.
And acting like OW is an active emergency blizz is ignoring, isnt speeding up that progress.
I’m talking from a gameplay perspective, not so much about whether it’s balanced or not, or what it’s supposed to be good for. If the ability isn’t interactive, I personally don’t consider it a good design.
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Ironically the least affected tank by discord is Reinhardt, the player just holds right click, and makes most of it’s effect null.