That doesn’t help with Competitive, though. Which is what most pros and streamers want to play.
Role queue is proof the dev’s are incapable of proper balance.
The problem I’ve found with it is related solely to toxicity and restrictions.
Role Queue restricts, which hurts flex players as well as casual, the latter of whom make up probably a lot of Overwatch players.
You can’t swap mid-game. So many times you think, if I could just swap to a third DPS, a third tank, go to McCree because I’m better than our current DPS, who may struggle on hitscan. You are locked. It is frustrating when you KNOW a solution exists, but are powerless to fix it.
So, people get nasty(and they are mean) and say regarding Role Queue “Well, if you don’t like it go play something else!”
Guess what? A lot of people did. My friend list went vacant pretty darn quick. I dunno, but I can say that I feel both Role Lock and the current meta, coupled with very slow balance to account for Role Lock, severely damaged this game.
1 Like
They’re polarizing the 33-40% of people against 222. Its not just flex players. Its also dps players, 141 types, and their friends. It affects would-be entrants into the game (new players expecting dps chances), player retention, etc etc. Its a snowball effect.
The ‘proof’ were those derpy polls. The most involved members of the community, representing both sides of the argument, worked through the surveys and eventually ‘accepted’ and rounded things to about 2/3. I’ll see if I can dig up some of the posts. There was a lot of compiled feedback - shedding reasonable support that 2/3 is an acceptable figure for light discussions. If anything, its generous towards the 222 supporters.
I disagree. They have the ability to leverage and spin more data, but that doesn’t make their conclusions any more trustworthy. They have far more to gain by not being forthcoming. We’ll never know. But this is a company with a track record of downplaying bad news for the sake of its shareholders.
They chose not to communicate any updates with the community since role queue. Hmm, I wonder why. It certainly cost them some polarization and turmoil. I would love to see how many players they lost since 222.
1 Like
Yeah it totally does lol.
Lol You don’t even want to try and debunk it because you know you would literally be here typing on the forums all day listing composition types within the confines of 222 if you tried to.
we?
lol okay my guy.
Fancy and dramatic wit choice by using “unjailed” lol
Anyways…
And out of all of those “far more comps” primarily consisting of 4 DPS (and don’t tell me they aren’t because out of every role, DPS is in high supply and demand as seen in 222), how often do you see them consistently succeeding?
Notice how I emphasize “consistently” because creativity =/= consistency.
Lol okay cool… and? Have you ever even come close to playing literally every combination within 222? I know I haven’t.
Again…
Creativity =/= effectiveness or consistency.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Not to mention BOTH TEAMS are restricted to 222.
AND (get ready for this)…
When we didn’t have role lock, guess what the only viable comp was that had practically no counters.
GOATS.
“How do we counter GOATS? Let’s get “CrEaTiVe” and play 4 DPS and 2 TANKS. A lot of damage and a lot of durability.”
But uh oh. No heals vs mass heals is a huge issue.
proceeds to get steamrolled
Guess we have to mirror it.
And btw, don’t you dare for one second tell me that people weren’t being forced to mirror this comp constantly.
The dev team didn’t do a bunch of massive patches to try and kill it for nothing ya know.
Using clever words like “basic” again to try and demonstrate how dumb you think I am.
You don’t want to read it because you know they are counter arguments that debunk Your statements that have been disproven time and time again.
But why am I surprised? You won’t even do what I said and lost every comp you can play under 222.
Key points: You can infer a majority of players are dps players by backing out numbers via the expected queue times.
Key points: Companies seldom let their employees say “it’s not working” or “people hate it!” about a new feature. You won’t get trustworthy data representations when corporate interests are at stake.
Key points: This is the post with lots of meta-data and strawpoll results. FYI: Its pre season18 honeymoon phase. We argued the validity of some of the data…but, you can see where a number like 2/3 is workable to get basic discussions going.
Because you can’t do math/logic?
Do you know what a proper subset is? 222 is a proper subset of unjailed, unlocked.
I don’t need to enumerate anything lol. I’m not doing your chores for you. The onus isn’t on me. Its on you to go do some logic homework, my guy.
I’ll repeat: the set of things you can choose from in 222 is a restricted, dominated, fully enclosed set of choices compared with unjailed.
Thats why we say unjailed is more creative.
More options, more choices, you can be just as (in)effective as anything in 222, or more so, because you have access to more. You can be just as consistent, or not. The choice is yours. And with the prison sentence of 222 you simply have fewer choices and more constraints. That part, at least, is consistent.
Nope.
Wrong. 4 DPS against a Goats comp, unless you LITERALLY never miss your shots, is almost always not doable.
Too much damage, too much durability, too much speed, etc. and I’m glad 222 is around so we don’t have to endure that overpowered garbage anymore.
And BTW, I can also say you can be just as (un)creative as anything out of 222
You’re the one making the claims regarding math and logic so YOU do it for me. That’s on you.
You do it for me. I know the answer already just FYI. I want you to do it so you can see how dumb your argument is.
You made the claims about creativity so YOU prove it using math. Burden of proof is on YOU.
Creative =/= effective.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Of course I realize this.
But my combinatorial argument still wins.
Because: literally everything you can or can’t be as 222, you can be in unjailed, and much, much more. If in the unjailed regime, you want to be ‘as effective’ as a 222, (for whatever thats worth), then you just go 222. Simple as that. Same with GOATS or 141. You can mirror, flex, adapt, counter, or solve through creative use of choices and greater toolbox of options available.
You just always have less in jailed lockdown 222. That makes things less - whether you mean creative, effective, or anything else. 222 is just less. For every effective or creative thing you can come up with in locked 222, I can mirror and/or come up with something better, or worse.
I’m afraid locked 222 always loses this argument.
1 Like
Except… this is in reverse… not the same
Okay cool. Than checkmate.
How? You said you realize this but you still think you’re right.
How does that make sense?
And how does that hinder your ability to counter the other team who is guaranteed to also be 222?
I guarantee you that all of the comps you can play in an “un-locked” setting outside of 222 are still inherently garbage.
And there is no “wanting to be as effective” outside of 222. Too many things to be involved with create inconsistency which therefore creates bad experiences.
And?..
Nope.
Not consistent on the ranked ladder. People will play who they want to play. Nothing you can do to change that.
You can literally do that all with 222. Locked role queue isn’t stopping you from switching.
Just because you can’t swap to a completely different role doesn’t mean you can’t do those things in the confines of your own role you selected.
You can flex, adapt, and counter. I’ve done it within the confines of 222 a million times.
No you don’t.
Less yet more consistent and less toxic.
And then if my team and I wanted to, we can just mirror that.
See where I’m getting at? 222 isn’t stopping us from doing those things.
Respectfully, it doesn’t.
Its combinatorial subsumption. Locked 222 is strongly dominated by unjailed in every normative (closed, compact, etc) measure. In short, because unjailed contains as a subset anything 222 could ever hope to be.
Respectfully, if you think otherwise, the education system has let you down.
2 Likes
So how does that effect Overwatch?
Very true.
But at least I my opinion (and I believe most people would certainly agree with this), official developers statements will always be the most trustworthy source of metrics for any online video game out there…
I’d rather it stay; it’s nice not to see 5 people instalock DPS then watch all of them bicker over who should switch only for all of them to just stick to DPS.
Yes, it’s annoying getting placed into matches with people who were DPS mains trying to heal/tank or tank mains trying to DPS/heal, or healers trying to tank/DPS. It’ll sort itself out eventually though.
2 Likes
As long as they agree with your opinion
1 Like
Umm, I’m ginnding it hard to understand why you’re making this point though.
You yourself accepted and I agree how invalid community - made polls are, due to the fact that they only support the opinions of a tiny amount of the players base.
But, even if you wanted to make an argument out of this completely anecdotal one, then sorry, but a 33% - 40% of the Forums users being against 2/2/2 role - lock (which by itself is a metric that I know nothing of who calculated it and who “rounded it up”) is a pretty great success for the system in my opinion.
Just remember how vocal and negative the Forums have been overall, due to the fact that they, as every Forums out there, are wrongly used mainly for negative feedback, roasts and rants, so for the same community to show such favoritism for 2/2/2 role - lock I almost every single poll here despite all of the above is really impressive.
And really, just imagine how much clearer the win of 2/2/2 role - lock would have been in places like Reddit, where the sole purpose of the community isn’t to complain about everything concerning this game…
Sure, all of what I’ve and you’ve said on the matter are anyways just logical assumptions and thoughts/opinions, so we both may be actually be proven wrong in the end…
Ummm, why do you say that exactly?
Because people will often agree with authority and people of importance when it suits their motives
1 Like