How does balancing work?

I have no clue.

People keep telling me the heroes are supposed to be balanced for 6v6. (correct me if I’m wrong)

for a team of 6 players with 28 heroes to choose from (without allowing 2 of the same hero on 1 team) the amount of possible combinations can be calculated.

c(28,6) = 376.740

now if we want to know all possible combinations of 2 opposing teams of 6 we can calculate this too:

c(28,6)^2 = 141.933.027.600

This astronomical number seems impossible to balance right?

so let’s say we want to only balance 2 teams running 2-2-2 composition.
we calculate possible combinations of 2 teams of 6 players both picking a 2-2-2 composition.

Let’s start with 1 team
c(15,2) = 105 Dps combinations
c(7,2) = 21 Tank combinations
c(6,2) = 15 support combinations

105x21x15 = 33.075 different combinations possible for a 2-2-2 composition.

33.075^2 = 1.093.955.625 possible combinations of 2 teams of 6 players running a 2-2-2 composition.

Now obviously 2-2-2 is not enforced so they can’t balance just on this.
But even if this was how they would balance 6v6 how can they do that?
I don’t understand.
Also if I made mistakes in calculating please correct me.

1 Like

Here’s a good primer on balance by League of Legends’s main balance guy:

http://archive.gamedev.net/archive/reference/articles/article1765.html

A well balanced game is one which has choices that are both unique and worthwhile.

My personal phraseology for that is “Competitive Variety”.

4 Likes

This is a great article, Thank you!

I’ve only just begon reading but going by this info do you think it’s possible for Overwatch to be well balanced?

Blizzard has never been good at balancing anything regarding PvP, lol.

5 Likes

Definitely. I wouldn’t be here if I thought it wasn’t possible.

1 Like

going by these insane numbers + complexity I think they’ve done reasonably well.
I also like how Hearthstone is balanced although I know many people would disagree.

Turn ults into E abilities

Thats how you balance…

6 Likes

balancing is generla is making everything viable and useful and no real overshadowing by others.

however OW is forcing the [Esport] scene so balance is whatever gets peopel to watch peopel play the game.

That said, this post inspired me to finish writing up something I was thinking about at lunch. Here’s how I personally would go about doing it.


  • Reinhardt: Put back some of those animation cancels, and fix bugs
  • Roadhog: More reliable Hook, More reliable Shotgun, Less Ult Charge Feeding
  • Zarya: Keep the energy change on PTR, Put back the 8m radius on her Ult, (see Orisa buff for counterplay)
  • Orisa: Ultimate blocks all displacement CC (except for those that cause Stuns), in addition to it’s current 50% damage boost.
  • Bastion: TankMode on E with 120 damage projectiles, Ultimate = DamageBoost+IronClad on Q, Faster Transform Speed in general
  • Hanzo: StormArrow = 3 arrows at 75 damage each, 8 second cooldown
  • Mei: 0.2 second less Ultimate cast time to deal with lag causing ultimates to disappear, Iceblock bug getting stunned Hooked getting fixed
  • Pharah: Substitute 75HP for 75Armor
  • Reaper: Full damage to armor at close range, First half of ShadowStep is invulnerable
  • Sombra: More reliable Hack, Faster Movement speed in Stealth (even if that means putting it back on a cooldown), More Durable/Invincible Translocator Beacon
  • Symmetra: Faster charging and more forgiving primary fire beam
  • Torbjorn: Whatever Rework they are going to do, but otherwise just Build+Repair Sentry at the same time
  • Tracer: 0.2 second less Ultimate cast time to deal with lag causing ultimates to disappear
  • Mercy: Single Rez, only available in Valk, Half the current Cast Time. Maybe put GA prefers beam target on E until they think of something better.

  • Ana: Skip (For now, but might need changes, curious how this support pass works out)

  • Brigitte: Skip (For now, but might need changes, curious how this support pass works out)

  • Lucio: Skip (For now, but might need changes, curious how this support pass works out)

  • Moira: Skip (For now, but might need changes, curious how this support pass works out)

  • Zenyatta: Skip

  • Dva: Skip

  • Winston: Skip

  • Hammond: Skip

  • Soldier: Skip

  • Doomfist: Skip

  • Genji: Skip

  • Junkrat: Skip

  • McCree: Skip

  • Widowmaker: Skip

1 Like

Well technically the competitive game mode is balanced regardless of hero balance because both teams have the options of the same heros and have to both defend and attack or play the symmetrical control mode.

In terms of hero balance, obviously due to having various different modes and various different levels of play - Blizzard attempt to balance a hero with consideration to all levels of play but not necessarily all modes.

They have done some mode specific balance (Ana can nano herself in FFA) but I think this balance change was more about character engagement in the mode than actual balance (I personally would bet Zarya has the lowest winrate in FFA but she does not have any balance changes in this mode)

Sometimes heros will receive changes that affect their balance but not because they are unbalanced but instead they are functioning in a way that’s not desired (ie, Mercy was reworked not for balance but for player engagement reasons - The rework just happened to have a significant effect on her balance)

the OW team uses 3 main sources to determine what changes should be made on a character;

  • Community Feedback
  • Developer Personal opinion
  • Blizzards internal stat tracking

So sometimes the community will complain and the dev’s will decide to take our complaints/recommendations (Like the 2 second cooldown on Sombra’s hack when she gets hit, it was a recommendation on the forums)

Other times the dev’s will have their own personal insights, these are harder for us to understand because they do a lot of internal testing but if something doesn’t feel like it’s working, even if its balanced and there is no outcry about it they might still make changes - Think of Torb, he’s seen pro play and has a high win rate on ladder but he’s just not quite in the right spot so they intend to rework him.

The last area that helps determine if a hero needs attention is Blizzards own internal statistics, we don’t really have any information on this but we can make educated guesses. They likely have stats about winrates of characters across millions of games so they can determine if a character is overperforming by taking aggregate data across all those games. In this way, they don’t need to account for every possible team composition but instead can use say the median performance for a character against all team comps.
One thing the stats might bring up that’s not often consider is hero performance on a per map basis, maybe flankers are too effective on a certain map and they need to move some health packs around to balance the map out.

The honest truth is the game is balanced in comp and actually close to balanced in quickplay(they released map win rates a while back, they are pretty close for attack and def) because you can always swap to a mirror match of heros - but a mirror match is a bit lacking in variety so when we talk about balance we are usually more talking about improving variety.

1 Like

This alone makes a ton of sense and so does the rest of your reply.
Focusing so much on all the possible combinations made my head spin.
Thank you very much for this wonderfull explanation.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :ok_hand: :pray: :raised_hands:

It doesn’t work perfectly in any game with a high complexity level. Players also may fail to notice even if things are balanced both from lack of trying various things and because characters can have different appeals leading to players giving certain heros more of a pass or more blame.

Different companies have different standards for balance because while balance is important for many people fun is more important.

Here’s an old nerf now comic joke about it

The best approach for reaching balance is probably lots of little changes. However, this will tend to annoy players because many people don’t take getting nerfed well or having things change frequently.

As a result, you’ll see some companies make large sweeping changes on rarer occasions as it produces less people leaving/spending less money apparently according to some studies.

Additionally, you will see some companies that will feel that variety is more important than balance and will thus make certain characters more powerful than other characters for a period of time to change the games meta. Overwatch has less customization than some of the other games in genre so I would not be surprised if they do this more than other companies.

It’s hard to say how much of Overwatch’s balance “issues” are deliberate decisions, how much are mistakes that anyone could make, how much are actual serious failings on the part of the staff, and how much are members of the community being wrong (The stat access we have is incomplete and can be lacking detail while also probably being somewhat biased).

1 Like

Griffin Benneth tweets are interesting :thinking:

From my experience EA’s Fifa franchise deliberately create balance issues so the next yearly release can swap things around to keep the game “fresh” and keep people interested in the next installment. I think I’ve even seen this loop repeat itself over the years.

I never suspected this in Overwatch and dont expect it to be the case.
EA is the worst IMO.

Thank you!

EDIT:

I feel this is the case with Birgitte.
She is countered so hard by just a single Pharah/Widow/Junkrat I don’t understand why so many people complain.

How does balancing work ?

It doesn’t.

1 Like

should have seen that coming.
:eye:

Well this is silly. We are only looking at Blizzard when we should be looking at other companies and how they develop their games as well.

While there is no such thing as perfection we need to understand that the goal of balance is to get as close as possible to such a state. That is why it is neverending and always progressing. So perfect balance isn’t achievable but by god has many a company come close to it or made such a stride towards that goal.

Balance is also subjective. What may be fun and fair for one person isn’t going to be fun or fair to another. So balance derives on a lot of opinion here.

Though those points aside we have to be fair and say that balance is needed in terms of being compeitive amongst other players. As long as there is something performance base you can be sure that human nature will make it compeititive.

Now why is balance needed? Balance is to make sure that both ends of a spectrum, or multiple ends, of a competition are given the same fair chances to perform to their capabilities without restraint unless otherwise outskilled by an opponent.

This means everyone should have a fair game with no matter how they choose to perform. Unless of course a disadvantage was taken into account.

Now considering that we have a variety of 28 static characters that never change their skills, this game is limited on it’s changes to variety.

If we compare the variety of League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, or Something like Warframe the variables become so mind numbingly difficult to even fathom.

Yet many people in those communities can consider their complex game balanced due to the various ways they can handle other competitors.

Take any single situation and imagine the possible outcomes or counters to it in Overwatch. Now take a similar situation and apply to League of Legends?

The point is thr choices in which we can play or handle any one such situation becomes so straight forward that we are left with the choices of either “do this like this” or to suffer under the situation without much of a choice.

This is where the lack of balance comes into mind. We have 28 heros but there are only one or two true counters to any one such hero. Then only one or two counters for any such suppprting hero supporting said threat. And so on and so forth.

Making the rock paper and scissors style of experience we manage to find until someone gets outskilled and that one hero with high skill turns the game over.

This is not balance. This is called shuffling and denies the player any variety or choices in how to play the game simply because any one such hero can become opptessive without much restraint.

Now if TIme to Kill was longer the fights could last and bring about an equal fight of a duel giving chances to outskill a player through multiple uses of various skills. Such as aim coupled with positioning. Or the use of cover over ability management.

Overwatch does not bring these types of fights into mind and oftens times encourages solo behavior and instant killing your opponents through many ways. Coupled with mobility that can barely be matched with only very few choices you get players who can flank kill and get out in less than seconds. Leaving kost players feeling cheated without any struggled taking place.

The small window for TTK implores that Overwatch is considered an assassination type of game. Which is most prominent in shooters. One mistake and you’re dead.

But we are dealing with heros who have character are shown to put up struggles and make a show of things. Yet the show is canceled because of a single headshot.

There should be a conflict and a clear opposition against one and another. Not this steal a life lile a thief mentality. It does little to show balance when players get to play less because someone merely hovered a crosshair over their heads or because of constant random spam.

So it is with this case that I suggest that players should be able to play the game. Not play less due to constraints other players employee. It should be competitive meaning two sides need to engage against one another in a struggle. Not who shoots first.

So I disagree with your sentiment that Blizzard is unable to balance properly. If there was ever a company with the resources talent and manpower to do so it is this one.

So make no mistake balance is out there. Blizzard just doesn’t want it. We also have no right to just excuse them for lack of it. Compared to other game platforms.

How does balancing work?

It doesn’t.

I don’t have any experience with moba’s just other fps games which I find it hard to compare to Overwatch.
I will have to take your word for it.

This is why I mentioned shooters and mobas.

1 Like