Feedback about experimental

General Discussion
1

Now, im going to be the first person to go and say Genji definetly needed to get nerfed

However, im not quite sure about these exact nerfs, and while im happy that genji finally got the nerf, i kind of have to get back into him because i suggested him to get buffed in the first place

so for recapping, Genjis changes are:

  • Shuriken damage reduced from 30 to 28

  • Secondary fire firerate reduced from 0.65 to 0.75

Now, i understand why these were done, but i want to point out the following:

Genji before his buffs: 28dmg | 0.65 firereate = 113 Dps
Genji after his buffs: 30dmg | 0.65 firerate = 121dps
Genji on Experimental: 28dmg | 0.75 firerate = 105dps

do you see what this means?

he is dealing less damage than before he got buffed right about now.
And yes, i am aware that due to the spread buffs his damage is much more consistent, so it makes sense that he deals damage to make up for it

but why not remove the newer change, that caused the problem, inestead of removing old buffs to leave the new ones in?

If i were to say what i think should be done with genji is:

  • Ultimate cost increased by 15%
  • Spread reduced from 9 to 12

Onto moira:

I understand why these were done, but however tacking a invencibility on a ability such as fade means one or two things:

  • You either gotta increase the Fade CD to make up for the new utility
  • Or you have to reduce the value of the invencibility

So, there are multiple ways we can do this: on the most basic form id say:

  • Increase the cooldown of fade from 6 to 8 seconds

you want to make moira more skillfull, and i agree, however fade is pretty spammy right about now, and if you want to make it a tougher choice, you have to increase fade cooldown, as rarely unless you fade straight into the enemy team, you are unlikely to die before it comes back:

Alternatively:

  • move this new effect to a separate skill on F on a 12-15s cooldown

if you want to dive in more into her “resource managment” potential, you could also make it so that it has a small cooldown, but drains like 50% of her healing resource:

and now that i mentioned, another issue with moira that remains unadressed, is her healing resource, ill be quoting another thread of mine with its ideas to do the explanation:

Basically the idea is to make all of moiras recharging methods a lot weaker, while giving her stronger healing as a tradeoff for it, making resources more precious will make moira players have to conserve their resource much more,

and here are the changes proposed on that thread:

Keep in mind those changes were targetted to the old version of moira with the big hitbox on the M2 it might need to be changed to make up for its reduction.

For the orb changes…i think they are fine…though i feel like the jump from 100dps to 150dps might be too much, especially with an ability that is an Area Of Effect. so maybe inestead of 25-150, make it 50-125.

Thats my feedback

2 Likes
2

Better just make it the Purple orb effect, since they wanna nerf it so much, it will just stop dealing damage at all, and you will have to choose, either healing or the effect.

3

First one is 129 dps
Second one is 138 dps
Third is 112 dps (launch Genji m2 dps)

4

what calcs did you do differently?

i did

[Shuriken damage] x 3 = [Total dmg]

[Total damage] x [1 - Firerate] = [Fraction damage]

[Total Damage] + [Fraction damage] = DPS

also i was refering to him before the buffs he got a month ago. not launch genji or before his original firerate buff

5

Honestly

Keep the .65 fire interval and just revert the last patch except…maybe cancellable deflect?

It’s a 6m radius for where moira is leaving fade

Meaning to save a teammate in danger for one second she’s yeeting herself into danger with her escape tool

It’s a very balanced trade right now, even for the short cooldown.

I don’t inherently disagree

But with this revert the 30 hps nerf on her secondary

Or remove self healing from her secondary and put 30 hps on her primary

I like this

I also wondered what if fade could be held to select a target within a short range but for 1.5 seconds since she’s giving her escape tool

I like it but I don’t

First off, the mini anti on her orb? No thanks. It’s too rng to be throwing an effect on its targets

And it doesn’t need to regenerate spray. Sure that helps start fights with spray but if I need to be healing and low on spray I don’t want to throw a damage orb.

I want to throw a healing orb to keep someone up as I try to get some spray with my succ

The active and passive regens were entirely too harsh on the nerfs

It will be really hard to start fights with spray if you aren’t landing ultra valuable damage orbs, meaning I’m probably then gaining an unhealthy reliance on my ult which will eventually probably get nerfed.

For 80 hps without destroying her regeneration you could increase the drain as you did and that’s it or turn off the pierce.

Or even take some healing off orb

It’s honestly fine

The range was reduced and it’s even slower now when tethered so it’s likely by the time it gets to someone doing it’s 25-40 dps at the outer edges they will have reacted to it and gotten out of the way.

Basically she’s now stronger in a room and about the same everywhere else. And why are you fighting Moira in a room?

Your changes are nice

1 Like
6

i did a small workshop test for the changes, not the same ones precisely but similar,

i felt like my drain was a really fast for sure lol, but i left those numbers to convey the feeling of what i was trying to archieve, however they can always change

i dont get what you mean, you mean literally give them your fade and put yours on CD?

7

damage / fire rate

The experimental changes reverted Genji’s damage and fire rate back to launch value.

The things that are better than launch Genji are

  1. tightened m2 spread
  2. cancellable deflect
  3. 2s deflect (launch was 1.5)
8

The best way to imagine it is like Zarya’s bubble

Holding it allows you to select in ally within range to give the effect to. But I was thinking 1.5 seconds since, yes, it will put Fade on cooldown.

Tapping it just uses fade like normal

9

i guess its essentially the same thing all things considered?

i mean i guess…it feels a tad too complex and clunky though since we can just bind it for interact.

plus, having to hold would be kinda clunky if you are meant to want to use it as a reaction

10

I’m no math genius, nor am I particularly up to date with the current changes, but…from what I’ve read, I reckon the Genji nerfs are fine enough. He’s more balanced than he was before, however Blizzard is just making the same mistakes as they made before - Lowering the power of another hero and raising the power of another up in order to create “balance”. That’s not how you create balance. Moira didn’t need those changes, in my opinion.

1 Like
11

I’m thinking of console with the change

It’s not like I have space so my interact key would probably be in an inconvenient place for an ability I need to be rather fast with

But i get what you mean

12

Well console players should have interact bound anyways because of torbjorn turret destruction, symmetra teleporter destruction and usage.

13

It’s not unbound, it’s just

how do I explain this

It’s like if on your keyboard, you had to choose between making an ability on the O or M key.

Neither are close to your left hand and you’d have to take your hand off the mouse if you were to use your right hand. A tertiary ability is generally inconvenient at its best.

14

i mean i guess it makes sense, but holding a button also feels weird to cast an ability, because it means it has a huge delay and it can lead to you failing to do what you want

1 Like
15

the overall dps of his m2 being lower isn’t too significant since he has reduced spread. he’ll be able to do damage more consistently than pre buff genji.

1 Like
16

Yeah, but like i mentioned, why not just revert the spread?

that way you are reducing his skill ceeling and reducing his value to make up for it, inestead of increasing his skill ceeling and giving value in exchange for those who can use it

17

the reduced spread is major for him to be a more consistent damage hero. the reason he was previously not run over a hero like echo is because his base kit isn’t consistent enough for him to be run. his prebuff spread was greatly inconsistent on small targets and the reduced spread kind of remedies that. I think they chose to nerf his raw damage since one of the complaints was that he charges ult too quickly. reverting his shuriken damage and his m2 rof are a good way to go about that.