All the problems with the latest experimental

General Discussion
1

Damage orb disproportionately affects slow characters that already have problems while not fixing how defender sided the game is. The game needs real offensive support utility, and nothing less will do.

I have no problem with succ requiring aim, but it’s really underwhelming. In FFA I go out of my way to hunt Moiras for sport, and silently judge the crap out of the ones that can’t properly ADAD.

Fade I’m giving the devs a pass on since it’s more than likely the failed experiment and is unlikely to go through. It’s sooo terrible though. The game is already extremely defender sided and doesn’t need a cleanse or more ways to save teammates from never dying. The game is dangerously defender sided as is, and Moira sucks at getting things killed, directly or indirectly, and damage orb does not help. Meanwhile from a usability perspective, the short duration and long windup doesn’t lead to skill expression, it leads to unpredictable and effectively random effects that may not have been intended by any party. The game should be decided by deliberate actions, not randomly yoloing in on risky gambles.

Meanwhile for Genji, base shuriken damage is absolute last thing that should be nerfed. Pre buff, Genji suffered from having an excessive dependence on blade to do anything due to a mediocre base kit, and a left click so useless that pros during peak dive more or less never used it. I myself have left and right click swapped because of this. Reducing damage brings these problems back in an era where dragonblade just isn’t as good anymore. And after the fire rate reduction, his damage output is even lower than it was pre buff because blizzard logic (Credit Magy for finding this).

To make things worse, deflect is untouched. Per the devs’ own words, it was to counter hitscan, but there is no world in which a Genji regularly gets max value out of going after a hitscan over all the other targets of opportunity he’d run into along the way. It just makes the game worse for slow characters that already require good positioning and typically aren’t doing great, without helping any of Genji’s problems.

The devs have proven time and time again that they have an obsession with how they want a character to be, and will do it regardless of how inherently flawed the idea is, or how much they’ll ruin the character or the game at large in their attempts to make it happen. I expect zero change on this front but it would be amiss to not mention it.

While I’m at it, we also could really use experimental FFA. Dueling plays such a huge role in balance and gameplay despite being such a short part of the average match compared to the main teamfights.

2 Likes
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Honestly i cant hlep but disagree with this specifically, though i mostly agree with the rest…kind of.

i think the game is very offense favored, especially with how certain ults result in team kills often, though, there are certain things that could easily be adressed with more complex changes, like for example you mentioned that nothing dies, but we cant exactly nerf healing because damage is really high right now and tanks get deleted instantly, but we also cant buff damage for the same reason,

so something like more debuffs like non-100%antiheal would work well

well the devs did say in an interview that they balance the game to give “everyone their turn” or in “cicles” so i guess its moiras time now? idk.

i initially thought the changs were good, and i still see some good in them, but i think they need tweaks

3

Nah it’s very defender favored. You need a decent ult advantage or a massive outplay to push into an occupied area, and the game relies more or less on spawn distances to make the game playable. First teamfight wins on KotH are still too impactful and people still hate 2CP to the extent that they do.

Defending an area means you can better preemptively get into position to ult, so for the most part this too favors defenders.

1 Like
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What people seem to forget is that the radius got reduced from 4 to 3 meters. The fall off is very significant as well, so is the slow down. It gives you time to simply walk away from it. Really, if you get mowed down by an orb it’s your own fault - now more than ever.

5

It isn’t a matter of being mowed down or not. Tanks affected by self slows and the likes of Bastion can’t quite walk away from it as fast, and it goes through shields so they just take a ton of damage just for playing their character. They really shouldn’t have to deal with this.

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Are you really gonna discuss Bastion balance here ? Bastion is a whole different matter but even then, yes he can absolutely walk away from it given adequate awareness and reaction. Alternatively he can just heal it off.

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Saying it like this as if it’s a problem is disingenious. It’s defense favoured because it has to be. You only need to lose one fight while defending to lose the point. Meanwhile, on attack you can try plenty of times.

That’s also why it mirrors, btw.

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Would be a glaring omission to not mention Bastion, but my main concern is for tanks like Rein and Orisa, who can’t simply walk away quickly without compromising their shield protection. It’s not just that it’s unfairly annoying to these characters, but Moira herself has other problems that need fixing and being good against slow characters isn’t one of them.

If you’re doing that, you might as well pick another character, not that you shouldn’t anyway.

The defending team can preemptively engage the other team. The attacking team cannot sit and wait for the defending team to engage outside certain parts of a payload map, which, incidentally, typically feel a lot more balanced.