Of course I will, I mean it is obvious that they just left Bastion there and hope that people donāt care too much.
They are afraid that he will start bursting people down too fast at ranges too long for their taste, they are afraid that people will start finding him too oppressive, so they think they found this balance now and left him there.
Now he has crappy range compared to what he had before, and lower DPS potential. For example before if a Reinhardt tried to charge you like a moron you could have bursted him down with headshots, now you canāt, so thatās a DPS nerf.
Actually, he kinda isā¦ Sentry is used for high damage medium range fire, Recon is used for longer range precision fire, Tank is used for mobility and one shotting squishies. This just enhances each of his forms, and allows him to use them whenever he wants. Sentry would still remain the focus of his kit, but he would have other options as well for burst damage and mobility.
I donāt understand why people say this. There is definitely a middle ground. Itās not meant to one shot everything, itās meant as a source of burst damage, as well as mobility. Thatās like saying āSoldierās helix rocket is going to be either useless or annoying, they should remove itā. He can have burst damage without it being uselessā¦
I donāt really agree with this version of the Tank on E ult. The general idea is to put Tank exactly where it is now with the ult, but also allow him to use other modes during his ult. Have a look at my Tank on E thread, I like my version of the ult better (totally not biased)
I donāt understand that partā¦ Why would you shoot a shield with Tank instead of Sentry?
The problem with this, is that it keeps Ironclad, which is a pretty dumb passive. It causes way more trouble than itās worth. For ever 12 damage an enemy does, Bastion only needs to heal 10, which makes him extremely pocketable, which leads to the ācheese compsā that everyone hates Bastion for. If he becomes too powerful in these comps, heās just going to get gutted again. People arenāt going to want to play with or against a Bastion in these settings, they will complain, and he will be nerfed (probably like last time, where thereās no compensation for it).
Well, thereās only one way to find out if it would be fun. Not trying isnāt going to help anyone.
Umm, yeahā¦? Duh. It does basically the same as what you suggested, but adds more to his kitā¦ It takes away passive Ironclad (I think, I havenāt really paid much attention to the rework in the OP, Iām going off of mine), but it gives him the potential to actually do damage at range.
Zaydar, I tried to convince them of this as well. Itās not worth the effort. Iāve brought up every single point you did, and it makes no differenceā¦ I even proposed an ability that would give them the jumping they seem to specifically want tank forā¦ itās useless.
Yeah, some people here will loyally defend tank on E quite a bit, but I still think Sentry being abled to jump would seem quite strange, after all, itās a mini gun with no legs.
I gave reasons for preferring Tank on E to a Recon jump, but you refused to even acknowledge my thread where I gave my reasonsā¦
I donāt believe that putting Tank on E would make him OP, I do think it would be fun. Iām not completely set in stone on that, but I havenāt seen a good enough argument against it to think otherwise.
I Myself am opposed to the āJumpingā Bastion as wellā¦
Simply because it doesnāt fit the hero.
Or the class.
Bastion is meant to be a Stationary Source of HIGH Damageā¦
But yet, people act like if that were to be a thing, they couldnāt help but WM1 At it all game, without even beginning to Think Of some āOtherā Way to play.
People are already having enough of a Problem not WM1-ing at Widow, that they are literally trying to get her Nerfed.
So Rocket Jumping in Tank mode permanently, is fine, but a cool down re-positioning jump ability is not. Got it. This is why I am no longer contributing to the discussions. Itās always forced back to Tank on E, and the reasoning for it makes no sense. Itās never for damage when cross map sniping, or squishy bursting is brought into question, only for rocket jumping to ledges. I propose an ability that would not add damage, and serve the same purpose, then suddenly, itās somehow not going to serve the same purpose? The discussion is a stone wall, and nothing ever even slightly changes the mindset on it. The entire last thread devolved into Tank on E Memesā¦ I donāt like to contribute to that, and I hate the idea so much that I refuse to bump any threads devoted to that idea.
I only wanted to warn someone from going down the same tunnel I did. Itās never going to change any Tank on E zealots mind about it.
Itās also sad how many of you feel that Tank as an Ult is so weak, when I consistently see 2-4 kills whenever itās used in comp or QP. Itās objectively better than many Ults in the game.
No he is not? At a range where Sentry fire is too high spread is a range where even trying to deal damage with Recon becomes not worth trying.
So my mind is already blown 3 sentences in.
No, it wouldnāt just āgive him more optionsā, it will spread out his kit power so much it will cause him to get diluted, meaning lukewarm everywhere instead of being high caliber in one or two things, as if that wonāt ruin him at all ā that or he will be too strong. Look at how many things Blizzard has messed up regarding hero balance, and youāre so optimistic they will be able to sort this out?
I never heard anyone say it before I did, if you say there is middle ground, I donāt see it. I never said it was going to one shot, but now you made me realize just how awful his mini tank mode would be:
40-120 damage, so if you donāt direct hit you canāt hope to possibly take anyone above 250 hp out, especially if they have healing or shields or anything like that which they will so it definitely will be pointless without a doubt.
And no, the Soldier 76 part is a forced analogy, first he is a completely different type of hero and we arenāt talking about Soldier 76ās ult power being sacrificed so his helix rocket can be stronger or something.
What you fail to understand is that long range constant burst damage on a mobile hero is by anyones definition an annoying and tedious mechanic, and you want to give it to a mobile Bastion that can shoot out 3 of those burst damage rockets which will either melt and be broken or be completely useless and making the ātaking power from his ultā sacrifice completely obsolete.
And thatās a completely pointless suggestion, why would we give him some random option so he can transform into other things when ulting instead of simply keeping him as he is right now where his ulting is so strong you donāt want to transform into anything else? We are talking about balance here, anything controversial you give to him you will need to make up for somehow.
breaks shield hides to transform into mini tank mode jumps out and sees another shield or some other hero blocking his crap now he has to hide again and transform again meaning he canāt hit anything with his either broken op burst rockets or some crappy 120 damage mini pharah rockets and hope he gets lucky enough to hit a low target that isnāt being healed
That and also considering that the OP wanted him to have to charge each rocket. I donāt know how you donāt see that this will either be useless or just way too bursty.
And for that, we just sacrificed his ult power, thatās more likely than not going to be a nerf as you can see.
Then up his offensive capabilities like I suggested and delete Ironclad, itās not that hard.
Blizzard doesnāt try, once theyāre in, theyāre in. If you were to see this new testing of his like you suggested in the PTR, you can know itās going on the live game, and if you screwed him then, you screwed him for years to come.
Umm, donāt āduhā me, donāt just ignore my arguments and say āit just adds more to his kitā
Again, it doesnāt, it will either make him diluted or just overpowered and I have no hope in hell that they will manage to finely tune him as they canāt finely tune anything by what we saw before.
He is referring to me in the last thread. I am staunchly against the idea for all the same reasons you are. I pointed out nearly everything you did too.
I Said this, Simply because arguing about it, as if itās all or nothing, Gets us nowhere.
Some people like Tank on E, Some donāt, I want headshots back, And yetā¦ I must be talking about Mobility?!
Letās get something straight.
Sentry mode, Is Bastionās biggest issue.
And i think we can all agree that the reduction of his spread, and addition of headshots, Would fix most if not ALL Of itās issues.
Yes?
Now, otherwiseā¦ Iām also rallying for the removal of Ironclad, Since itās a Non-interactive chunk of Data, That does nothing to indicate an actual difference (Partially since it doesnāt have any real impact, either) And only helps Bastion to be further āPocketedā
Chibi, itās very difficult to discuss any other ideas when Tank on E gets brought up every other post. Itās a crazy re-work idea that is polarizing to most people who see it, especially since Bastion is such a hated character already. Most people want him deleted instead of re-worked as it stands.
I agree that Ironclad is a bad idea, and I also think itās only effect should work while self-healing.
Sentry needs the most love, and Mobility in general needs to be fixed for him. No matter how good we make sentry, the game is evolving to a mobility meta, and that leaves bastion i the dust, unless there were this strange slow moving objective that needs to be escorted.
Sentry becomes almost identical to what it was before the rework. Better accuracy, headshots (1.5x just like you suggested yourself), remove Ironclad. He will actually be able to hit his targets, and he will be able to headshot again. Your suggestion has him at a 1.5 degree angle (50% of 3 degrees), whereas mine puts him at 1.25 degrees for 0.3 seconds, and then 2 degrees 0.3 seconds after that. This is almost what he had before, but not quite. He used to start at 1 degree, and bloom to 2 almost instantly.
Most of the rework is putting power back into Sentry mode. Sentry mode gets put back almost exactly where it was, but with the new healing (and Ironclad only while healing). Iām not diluting it just to add Tank to E.
Whether Blizzard does or not is another story, but look at their history thus far. Mercy: Rez on E, new ultimate
Symmetra: Teleporter on E, Photon Barrier moved to ultimate
Torb (speculation based on interviews): Molten core on E, new ultimate
If theyāre planning on reworking Bastion at all (and I doubt they would just buff him, theyāre reworking basically all of the f-tier heroes), thereās a pretty good chance theyāre going to go with Tank on E on their own. If we can get ahead of that, and make good suggestions, we might be able to get a good rework out of it.
Yes, I would love just a Sentry revert. Remove Ironclad, give Sentry itās power back, leave repair, leave Recon. But by the looks of things, thatās not where theyāre headed.
So rocket jump, and shoot over the barrierā¦?
Pharah does 120 damage, and these move fasterā¦ If anything, Pharah would be a mini Tank on E (that can fly)
That part is kinda dumb, I donāt like that.
Heās not transforming into random stuff, heās transforming into stuff he already hasā¦ If the situation calls for a lot of sustained damage, use Sentry. If the situation calls for lots of extreme burst damage, use Tank. I still donāt know of a good use for Recon during his ult, I guess running away fasterā¦?
Not just ZDamned, quite a few others seem to think that thereās no possible way to balance Bastion. They think that thereās no possible middleground for him. Not just with Tank on E, but with straight Sentry buffs or reverts.
Bastion's real damage output (kinda) Hereās a thread going over his effective Sentry mode DPS at various ranges. He falls off fast with his current Sentry mode, whereas Recon is pinpoint accurate for a few bullets. If you manage your spread, Recon can be very useful at taking out distant targets.
Not permanent, he has limited ammo, and it recharges rather slowly.
Not true, Iāve said that many many times, and addressed that counter many times. Burst damage.
It almost serves the same purpose. There are some jump spots that require more than one jump, which would be impossible with that.
I donāt think this at all. I think itās a very good ultimate (minus the part where the health is trash and using it while not behind a wall or shield is an instant suicide button). I enjoy the ultimate, and I can normally get 2-3 kills per use if I donāt do something stupid. Bastion keeps the same exact Tank ultimate, but gets other options in the processā¦
Again, Iām sorry you feel this way, like no one is listening, but for me personally, I havenāt found a good enough argument against the rework to pick another one over it. I have definitely taken your input on the matter to heart, and have even made adjustments to my thread based on them, but as it stands, I still prefer the rework to a jump ability.
A Rein sees me mid-animation and decides to shatter, I finish mine and jump over it, then quickly kill him and a few others. Itās a very fun ultimate, and I want to be able to use the mobility it offers more often.
Okay I read your suggestion, itās basically the same thing, but in your version he is just spammy-ier and more useless in his own ways. The only thing that could possibly be useful is in a 1v1 against a McCree or something like that.
Oh yeah man let me jump up into the air and scratch the tank with my 50 splash damage HELL YEAH THIS NEW BASTION FEELS AMAZING.
No, which ever way you put it, he is a less spammy grounded Pharah.
Good, but the OP likes it, so who the hell do we listen to? My nanny says Bastion should turn into a heli and spam rockets like Pharah, although it would be balanced by 30 damage splash and 60 damage direct hits. You see what I mean? Everyone is making up their own things and claiming theyāre good, when anything we can come up with Blizzard already has or will.
You read it wrong, I didnāt say that he would transform into random stuff. And also are you aware that youāre literally, literally, literally, asking for him in that sentence to be either so diluted he has no place and is weak, making it neither a buff or nerf, or making him so strong he needs to get nerfed.
I didnāt know that, see, itās a common logical thing people can understand when you propose that change.
Yes letās say that even if the Recon damage didnāt have very high damage dropoff at that range, which it does, so you get out of Sentry and you try to snipe with recon, okay you have lower spread, great.
In sentry you still fire 7 seconds longer than you could with Recon mode, hello?! And what you said about Sentry damage dropping off sooner than Recon, thatās not true, Sentryās damage has way longer dropoff itās just that it has such high spread. It would be equally as productive to stay in Sentry and fire at your target in Sentry with more powerful shots at that range than to get up and fire at 10 times slower fire rate and lower damage per shot at almost 3 times shorter shooting times because of the difference in magazine size ā in most situations.
