Funny, because Seagull from the Dallas Fuel made a comment on Bastion saying he needed HS added back.
In my context, the 50% IC would only be during his transformations. EXACTLY like Roadhogs self-heal.
his spread was originally nerfed by 50%, so I think a minimum of 25/30% would be good, because that means 20% was converted into IC.
Iâm fine with the transformation time, itâs just that IC needs to be applied at the START of his animations, and not after, The opposite for coming out of his tank animation too, so he loses 35% IC in the last frame when he turns back into recon.
Iffy. Interesting, but Iâd like to see it in game before I agree.
This is along the lines of a revert. Iâm not saying I dislike it, Iâm just pointing out that Blizzard might not take this route when balancing him, if they ever do.
Iâm still not sure how this makes him useless. It gives most all of his power back to Sentry mode, which seems to be your main concern with this whole thingâŚ
Not the tank, the squishies behind him. And if youâre going for kills with Tank mode, youâre going to need directs. Nothing is forcing you to use Tank, just use Sentry if you need more damage. If someone is running away, or you need to remove someoneâs Brigitte ult armor, Tank can be useful for that.
Yes, but when theyâre saying that thereâs no way to possibly balance Bastion, thereâs something wrong⌠Usually (Iâm not saying youâre wanting this, ovbiously), they just want him nerfed so hard that they never have to see him⌠Like timers on his modes and buffing Recon so that itâs still a more useless version of Soldier, but it looks like it makes up for Sentry being trash.
I still donât see that. Can you please explain that one further. Are you saying that in my rework he would be diluted, or that Blizzard would dilute him themselves when attempting to rework him? Because I feel that Iâve balanced everything out fairly well. I feel that Sentry has plenty of power, Recon is still a viable option, and Tank is fun to play, and not awful to play against.
This thread isnât just meant to be a rework idea. Thatâs only there to give people an idea of a single rework. This is more meant as a megathread in general for Bastion that contains all of the information and concerns we have about him.
I wasnât saying the damage falloff, Iâm saying his DPS falls off long before Recon does. Sentryâs damage falloff is 35 - 55 meters, but his spread is so insanely large at those ranges, that your TTK is going to be much much smaller if you just use Recon instead. At 35 meters, it took Sentry mode Bastion 43 rounds, or 1.45 seconds to kill a training bot. Recon, at the same distance, took 7 bullets, or about 1 second (give or take, because of the spread control).
If youâre talking about old Bastion, then yes, Sentry is better than probably even new Recon. Iâm comparing current Sentry to current Recon.
Yeah, Iâm just concerned that people will jump on point and spam shift so that they constantly transform, giving them an almost constant 50% damage resist. They wonât be able to shoot and such, but they can stall pretty wellâŚ
Many people just want to delete random heroes like that, itâs not just with Bastion, theyâre still melons.
Being a swiss knife doesnât work in games like this, the only way Blizzard knows how to balance is imagine a triangle of support, damage, and tanking. You can have a hero only perform at certain balances within that triangle. If he can do all 3, he is either overpowered or so diluted that itâs fine he can do it all at once.
I have heard the tank mode on E thing so many times and argued against it for way too long, and seeing it here, on the only active Bastion parade right now, worries me very much to the point that I risk losing all enjoyment with my main, the only reason I still play Overwatch, I know it doesnât mean anything when we are talking about balance, I just wanted to explain to you personally why I am against this so much.
As I mentioned, you still fire almost 3 times longer in Sentry so it doesnât matter.
Youâre not explaining it though⌠If this would legitimately make him useless, then yeah, Iâd probably change my views on it, but Iâm not seeing how adding more utility to his kit while maintaining what he already does makes him useless.
It shouldnât⌠Bastion isnât an explosives character, he doesnât need a strong explosive on Tank (unless itâs his ultimate). Direct hits should hurt, but the splash doesnât really need to. Itâs for rocket jumping and burst damage, not for seeking out kills. Get into a good position with Tank, swap to Sentry for damage. Tank can clean up kills pretty well, but it shouldnât be used in the same way that you would use a Junkrat or Pharah.
I agree that Sentry should stay as the focus of his kit, I donât want it to become even more useless than it is now. I donât think Tank on E necessarily means the death of Sentry though.
Firing 3 times longer doesnât matter if they can easily kill you in that time. The faster you can deal with the threat, the better. It doesnât matter how long you can shoot if youâre not doing any meaningful damage to the enemy⌠D.va can fire indefinitely, but sheâs useless at range because she doesnât do any damage that far away.
If I say âthe damage is too lowâ or âthe rockets are too fewâ then you will say âwell then increase his rocket damageâ or âincrease the rocket numberâ and then ultimately we boil down to âwell Blizzard will sort it outâ which is the main disagreement point and that is what you canât seem to understand.
I was talking about when you told me that I should simply jump over the shield completely negating the fact that I just wasted one of my few rockets that already do low damage according to your damage suggestions to propel myself in the air so I can hope to shoot over a shield then do a splash damage for 50. You want his ult to be changed for this? No thanks.
I do think that it will be the death of a good and balanced ult, and an addition of a pointless hard to balance random ability. Instead of simply buffing his Sentry.
And you know of a concept called difficulty to achieve vs reward? Thatâs the problem you see. The difference is non existent and itâs often safer to stay in Sentry than to miss out on getting a nice Sentry shot while trying to snipe with your little sub machine gun.
Also donât derail the conversation over this into risk vs reward vs enemy comp vs danger of current situation vs healing currently received vs- and so on, we were talking about pure damage output over longer ranges with Bastion in Recon vs Sentry.
He already is except tank is behind his ult. He has 3 modes and he should be able to use them. Itâs not like Iâm asking for an Apache Attack Helicopter.
All heroes should now get the ability to use their current ults but in weaker form on some key and let their ults be just minor buffs everywhere, they have different forms and should be allowed to use them. Itâs not like Iâm asking for flying Genjiâs or anything.
I just said the same thing using your logic, if it is inaccurate, tell me how.
Iâm trying to sort everything out before they get to it. Should they look at this for reference (probably not going to happen, but whatever), I want them to do as little work as possible. It should all be done before then. Once it went to PTR, then balance changes come into play. These changes would focus on Sentry being the main part of his kit, not Tank. If Tank is a tad too weak in damage or ammo count, then yeah, maybe change it a bit. But donât take from Sentry to do so, that doesnât make any senseâŚ
You said there was a shield in your way, I told you how to get around it⌠I didnât say it was a good idea to use Tank mode in that situation. His ult wouldnât change. If you want current Tank as his ult, then use Tank during his ult. Itâs the exact same as what he has now, that was a major point of the ult.
The problem with that comes when people donât want to go up against a Sentry mode that does a ton of damage and has 20% damage resist (assuming youâre keeping Ironclad, itâs been a while, I donât remember if you said to remove it or not). If people, especially pros, donât want to fight against that, Bastion will be nerfed, no question. It doesnât matter if itâs fair, it only matters what people perceive him as. This is what Iâm trying to avoid. The same thing happened to Mercy and Sombra. Getting hacked a bunch sucked, so they nerfed it. Mercy hiding for a mass rez sucked (depending on who you ask), so they nerfed it. I fully expect Hanzo to be next.
But his âlittle sub machine gunâ is almost the exact same as Soldierâs gun. It does 1 more damage per round, but fires at 1 less round per second. Itâs pinpoint accurate to start, and itâs among the most accurate (it might be the most accurate) full auto weapon in the game at max spread.
Thatâs exactly what Iâm talking about, Iâm not factoring anything in other than Recon and Sentry modeâs damage output, and the fact that the enemy will shoot back. Yes, Ironclad will prevent 20% of the damage from going through, but killing the enemy sooner prevents 100% of the damage from going through. Sentry mode (at range) does far less damage than Recon mode does. Yes, it can shoot for longer, but since you can do more damage with Recon, itâs sometimes better yo use that rather than Sentry.
You said Bastion is pretty basic (as in no attach helicopters), Bastion already has the ability to use tankmode and tankmode is pretty basic. Itâs a tank, what did you expect? Youâre making this absurd on purpose. It could have been any of his modes behind an ult, imagine if sentry was his ult? Iâd probably still make the same argument for it to be usable normally.
It actually makes sense on Bastion compared to other heroes. He has 2 examples of why it makes sense, because he has 2 modes he can use at any time. Whatâs wrong with using one he already has?
Basically there are examples, it fits his character, itâs still pretty basic, and the only flashy thing I see is rocket jumping.
Edit: Oh and you balance characters different too so you canât just point at Genji and expect that to be an argument.
Every single rework so far has been a disaster, and for some unknown reason youâre saying that this one will not be a disaster, why? Iâm saying that if they want to fix him they should mostly revert him.
You said that in a way that seemed that I was being dumb for not simply jumping up into the air if I wanted to deal damage with my theoretical limited rockets, but you just admitted it wouldnât even be worth it so Iâm glad we agree.
And you know, even if we could keep Bastions current strength without any compensation (Which isnât happening by the way, theyâre not just going to give him a mini tank mode and let it slide), I still think the buffs and compensations should be aimed towards his Sentry.
Using that logic, then just leave him as he is, because right now no one perceives him as too strong except a few triggered ones who donât know how to deal with pirate ship.
And I am willing to sacrifice ironclad, extra ammo and reloading speed, all just for the old spread and headshots, just as they were before. Iâm not willing to sacrifice the moving while healing or the transform speed though, those are way too precious.
You know what, the Sentry vs Recon long range conversation proved to be impossible and out of place, so letâs just stop with that.
