[✅] One way to fix DoubleBarrier

General Discussion
24

notice how i said main tank?

yeah, if i was playing off tank it would be ez to just go winston (another MT) zarya, or maybe roadhog to solve that

but thats what i would do, in reality, when im the main tank, i have to deal with it in my own because i dont expect (and rightfully so) anyone to help me (because they wont) and id rather my life doesnt get harder already,

i dropped playing tank for months after those barrier nerfs because it was just so unfun, id rather not do that again, considering we dont have enough as is

1 Like
25

I mean, I figure good Sombras are kinda rare below Masters Rank.
And even more rare would be enemy teammates that will capitalize on the EMP.

Overall what I’m looking for is a strong penalty for using DoubleBarrier.
But ideally something that doesn’t affect Platinum and below that much.

That said, yes this an overall nerf to Orisa. But I figure they could reduce Orisa’s barrier cooldown to offset this.

26

Breaks my heart people want to see Orisa Nerfed more after receiving the hardest nerfs of any character Ive ever seen (besides brig).

Like others have said, they might as well remove the tanks. People Don’t like teamwork, they dont like working together to damage shields, they don’t like shields at all.

You know, mercy has a gun. Why does she never pull it out to damage shields? She would rather damage boost someone else than use superior damage to help remove the shields. shields would go down ALOT faster, almost instantly, if the whole team stopped what they were doing for 2 seconds to throw some damage on the shields. People ignore the shields and try to run past them instead.

27

Incidentally, put this addition up top:

Orisa:

  • Barrier cooldown reduced to 7sec, down from 10sec
28

i frankly still think that the best way to punish people for using double barrier is:

Attacking at its core

The reason Why people play double barrier, is simply because just one barrier is not enough to hold,

if it was, you wouldnt need two, you would just run an off tank,

pair that up with the off tanks beeing Frankly Underpowered (Roadhog) Too easily countered or old nerfs haunting them (Hammond) or lack of a skill ceeling (Zarya, See This thread to see what i mean with this) or just die too fast (D.VA)

which makes it so that its simply not worth running an off tank,

and seeing how overpowered/overtuned the main hitscans are due to a combination of barrier nerfs and buffs (because blizzard insists on making hitscans Not weak to barriers, for some reason)

it makes it so that you just gotta bunker down behind barriers. there is just no choice.

So frankly, i think the best course of action would be to

  • Buff the off tanks
  • Nerf the hitscans damage and buff them elsewhere (because some of them were pretty bad before the buffs that broke them tbh)
  • Add some form of damage scaling against multiple barriers (like my symmetra idea)

that, would “Fix” Double barrier, remember, the point is not to make it impossible to run, the point is to make it not dominant,

29

I mean, yeah they could buff OffTanks, but that’s still not good create a weakness for BarrierTanks.

Honestly, I’d prefer going the route of “BarrierTanks are weaker at close range”.
But all have Rein tier barriers, and are a bit more DPS-ish.

[✅] Simplified AnchorTank Buff/Nerfs
[✅] Expanded DoubleBarrier fixes

30

it could, if they are buffed well enough.

if we give them this super strong utility, lets say this idea i thought of, bringing back 1-3-2 TaB aura with %Damage resistance and %CCresistance then picking someone like roadhog inestead e for another barrier may be something to consider (because god knows i will take AntiCC any time i can)

or making hammond stronger, you wont need two barriers if hammond can delete that widow on the other side of the map with his 1s airlock back

i feel like this is too oriented to a OWL-Like enviroment tbh, rendering too team dependant is something that does more harm than good (see symmetra)

you can barely deal with someone like a reaper right now (especially in the lower ranks) if your team doesnt help you, let alone like that.

31

Honestly, if you look at skill tiers, aside from trickling. The main thing keeping skill tiers apart is how long they spend poking at the enemy team at range before pushing in.

Also in solo-queue if you offer people the ability to 1v1 better, they are probably going to play that hero more. Granted Orisa would lose some matchups at closer ranges, but overall would be getting more kills.

Additionally Orisa would effectively become a Pharah counter.

32

I dunno, it’s a different thing entirely since Orisa’s shield is on cooldown. When Sigma’s hacked he can redeploy immediately. Unless we’re giving the shorter cooldown OP suggested Sombra just deletes Orisa’s usefulness entirely.

33

No theres much more than this

Other than aim, there is also gamesense,

and gamesense is the really big factor here,

i personally have terrible aim but really good gamesense, so, you can rely on me to turn arround and peel, but you cant put me on DPS because i just cant land a shot, for example,

thats why i tend to prefer utility over damage, because i just can make use of it much better than everyone arround me could,

but there are other people who are better at aiming, but dont have as much gamesense, so they will go ahead and start getting kills but when your supports need help they dont even notice, so everything falls apart

you should encourage and reward teamwork, but not enforce it

i mean its not like pharah needs more counters, and the tank roster already has dva for that, and technically hammond and sigma can work too

34

I figure it’s a good thing for Pharah to get more counters in the long run.
Means more “budget” for buffs.

𓂀 Pharah ideas thread

35

For pharah i personally prefer

  • 250 HP
  • Off combat selfheal

since echo would be superior in every way compared to pharah, id rather take her in another direction,

while echo is more of the “Fighter” nimble and quick, pharah can be more of a “bomber” tanky, slow, AoE

36

Sombra isn’t best used as a tank buster anymore. Her best use now is anti dive and support peel. She stops Doom virtually in his tracks, makes life that much harder for Tracer and Genji, and really makes dive tanks afraid to dive.

Why you want to put her back in the 2017 box if only being useful if she could flank and hack a Rein…I dunno.

37

It’s more of a “Getting hit by EMP with DoubleBarrier is a death sentence”

Dealing with too much barriers is kinda what EMP is all about.

38

It’s an ult, it’s supposed to be powerful. Well, unless it’s Earthshatter, but those wacky devs, what can ya say?

39

I mean the easy changes for Pharah are

  1. Faster horizontal move speed while airborne
  2. The capability to cancel her Ultimate midway through
40

Yes…?

The whole idea here is that by giving AnchorTanks a lot of shieldhealth, and preventing the “shoot an orisa barrier into the sky when EMP goes off”.

You basically make it so that if you got a DoubleBarrier and get hit by EMP, that you’re kinda without options, asside from a Support that’s hiding with an Ult, a Baptiste that threw his Immortality field upwards, or a Mei wall.

Reminds me, gotta add “Move Mei to the Tank Role”

41

Oh yeah the ult is definetly a must, however i dont want to go for Easy changes

overwatch has enough of those “Easy” changes that always sidestep the character problems,

it needs to start thinking of some more complex mechanics, for both Fun, and Balance, see hammonds mobility, its very complex and very reliant on momentum, but its very fun because of that

like that +%BarrierDamage on barrier kill idea i said, that would certainly be a good pick against double barrier,

so we gotta start thinking long term, not for the short term,

Hitscans are also an example of this, they buffed Mccree/Ashe because they couldnt keep up with widow and broke them, then broke Soldier to keep up with them. And now we are at this problem.

But if they buffed Ashe with something like %AntiHeal on dynamite, Mccree with 250hp or maybe I-frames on roll, or some other special ability on F (like my old suggestion of "ammo switch) and soldier with like biotic field buffs, sprint reloading and maybe damage resistance, crouch damage reduction and spread

then you arent in this situation where you just have 5 characters competing for “who clicks heads better” (which widow will always win) but people pick them based on preference of situation / gameplay cycle

thats why i think pharah needs to be taken in another direction, no “easy” buffs,

42

If a Orisa barrier is the difference in a fight against a team who’s been EMP’d, you have bigger problems than Orisa’s barrier, I promise you.

43

The thing is I’m trying to come up with a solution that targets GM/Masters/Pro players, who can do that reliably.