Winstreaks because enemy team is bad followed by loss-streaks cause ally team is bad will never be fun. I want matches to be equally skilled on both teams as often as possible. And I don’t need the excuse that “even matched games every game would be boring” (you said it and can never take it back) because I’d rather have boring and fair than inconsistent and infuriating.
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Please remove low player count. Please remove people not beinging their friends in to the game.
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Good news for you OP, they heard you so loud and clear that they never even implemented the feature!
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https://imgur.com/iUVpDgo
https://imgur.com/WKx2pb2
https://imgur.com/JyfcbwP
Blizz likes to delete posts like this even though “compelled fairness” was one of their big selling points when the game was in production.
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I’ve never understood the “everyone should have a 50% winrate” mentality in games like this, specially in random matches, is a very mediocre and deteriorative approach (to anything), IMHO. Not only it is pampering for bad players, while screwing the good ones, but is also making them bad players falsely believe they are on equal ground to the good ones, resulting in a vicious circle of unfun experiences for everyone.
But what do I know, I just believe in self-improvement.
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Are you saying then a 50% winrate isnt fair? If not, what would a fair winrate for you look like?
Its still possible to get an over 50% winrate. I personally have 55% and on some heroes its over 60%. You just have to actualy be that much better then the people your matched with.
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Indeed, it is not. Equal opportunity, not outcome. The fair winrate would be the one each individual deserves. If a guy has 90% winrate, 'cause he plays godlike, then so be it, he deserves it. If a guy can’t pass 20% cause he simply doesn’t get it, then so be it too… Know what I’m saying?
But don’t make the 90% guy and 20% guy play together in the same team to “compensate”, that’s insulting to both. IMO.
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This feels like a big misunderstanding since the system doesn’t try and force you to 50% win rate…it’s an MMR-based system where you progress until you can’t anymore, which should be around a 50% win rate.
Getting there is a byproduct of reaching your current skill peak.
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First time I find black on white about them averaging high MMR players with low MMR ones.
Though I knew the system exists it’s nice to see it is a fully intended feature.
Who okayed this at the dev team? Horrible design!
Potatoes are considerably frustrating to carry in HotS because of this being so team based compared to LoL and Dota 2.
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The explanation in the blue post is correct but im not about argue that its a perfect system. I have never seen a system in a game that hasn’t been broken or gamed in some way.
How the current system works is the game attemps to match 90% players with other 90% players and this will slowly even out both their winrates down to 50% and place them in a high rank (or mmr) to assure they continue to get matched with other players of equal skill. Same goes for the 20% players, same goes for the already 50% players. This system should work. In fact, this is a very similar system to what they use to match chess players together and it works great there.
As far as I can tell, this falls apart for 3 main reasons in hots.
First, the smaller player base. There are plenty of 20% and 50% players to make the system work for them but those top 90% players are few amd far between. In other mobas they overcome this with just the sheer size of their player base. Unfortunately, hots has slowly lost this luxury and 90% players are occasionally matched with 50% to fill space in qm. (Not so much in ranked tho, the queues there just take forever for the 90%s to compensate)
The second problem is smurfing. Essentially a 90% masquerading as a 20%. Its pretty easy to see why this causes issues. You’ve lost to em, I’ve lost to em. It feels bad.
Finally, a 90% player can simply team up with a 20% or 50% player and the match maker will use the 90% players mmr to match them with an appropriate enemy team. The 90% player might have a good time here but the poor 20% guys are gonna have a very rough time. This is something I personally have difficulty with when trying to bring friends in to hots. (Not that im anywhere near 90% but I’m not a brand new player either.
The type of match making you describe could be achieved by not having any matchmaking at all and just randomly matching players together which does work for some games like in tf2 casual games. Wether or not this would be healthy for the game is hard to say sense it hasn’t really been done before.
Personally I don’t think so sense its not a drop in/drop out experience. You’ve got to play the whole match and getting to many of those games in a row by chance could cause new players to leave. Where as in tf2, if you don’t like your current game you can just server hop at any time. But its a complicated problem with no clear solution.
Whe whole idea of an mmr system is to bring everybody to a 50% winrate. If you want system that doesn’t do this you wont find it with the mmr system.
The mmr system was originally developed for chess but most online games use it aswell. Counter strike uses it, starcraft uses it, street fighter uses it. Its a tried and true system but its not an unexploitable system. In my experience, an unexploitable system doesn’t really exist.
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Yes but all of those are primary 1v1 games (except CS). Elo systems are good there because you are fully responsible for the outcome with your actions. There is no AFK or troll to make you lose randomly, everything depends on you.
CS is highly solo carriable by skilled people too though even if all your teammates leave so it’s good there.
I know super high MMR players in HotS can carry too. But doesn’t it frustrate them that even a guy like Fan can lose a Silver game if he gets really really unlucky, and has like 3 AFKs or leavers?
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Yes, the MMR system was originally developed for a 1v1 game. In theory it could work just as well for a team game assuming the same team stuck together all the time. In hots tho, they don’t but I think that even then it works well enough. Those were just some examples I listed but the MMR system is used in many 2+ player games. Age of empires also uses it for its big team games and even WoW’s community based Raider io score is a modified version of the MMR system. I agree its not as clear cut to carry a game in hots as a 90% player but its also not as impossible as some make it out to be. A lot of advantages that a good hots player would gain aren’t as tangible or immediately readable as it would be in league where you can use the extra gold you skillfully farmed to get your +45 attack damage earlier but they do exist. Things like good positioning and camp timings are probably the more obvious things a good player can to to pull ahead but there’s a lot more then that.
In terms of AFKs and trolls, A bad match making can cause more people to vent their frustrations with the game in that way but there’s just not a whole lots a match maker can do about that. These players could be anyone. They could be a 20% player, a 50% player or a 90% player and it totally blindsides the matchmaking system. There are truly some players that do make it their missing to ruin every game they play but an MMR should eventually banish them to what ever the lowest rank is. Unfortunately this means all those 20% players who are honestly trying suffer. Bans can only do so much about these players because its not super hard to just make a new account.
All this tho would have to be handled by separate system that tries to manage the nice vs the rude players for lack of a better word, and not the match making system.
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You can make a 50% winrate system simply by having players constantly play against people of the same skill level. If you play well you get stronger allies/enemies, if you play worse you get weaker teams.
This system doesn’t do that, at least not entirely. If you are overperforming, your teammates get worse, not better, and only if you are able to carry them is your mmr allowed to continue to rise.
You can test the system extremely easily simply by making a new account and doing QM. You will win a bunch early against bronze because the game doesn’t know you yet, but then you will start losing because the game will keep putting feeding bronzies on your team while giving you silvers and golds to play against. Instead of just letting you progress up the ranks to silver then to gold etc, it will bog you down because you were overperforming. So yes, it’s trying to give you a 50% winrate, but not at your true skill level- it wants to make you have a 50% winrate in bronze.
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I’ve eluded to reasons why that happens and why there could be so many afks in low MMRs.
I do have a smurf that I use when showing new players what hots is like but I haven’t yet experienced this goldilocks area where your team gets all the afks and feeders.
That aside tho, I just don’t think afks and feeders is a match making issue. The match maker might have all these players trickle down to lower ranks but its not really the match makers job to properly deal with these players. Its more on the report system which only helps so much due to people being able to make new accounts for free. I get what your issue but its like trying to tell the trash guy that the line at customer service is to long.
The match maker will keep you from climbing if you keep getting afks and feeders but the match maker was never really equipped to deal with this issue in the first place. This is also an issue many games have. Hots isn’t special in this regard.
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So we’re now accepting Reddit fakes as evidence?
And yes, it’s fake. Can easily be confirmed in this this thread unless you happen to have a time machine.
And what the actual hell? This isn’t even your first rodeo trying to push this. Give it a break already, there is no major conspiracy.
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What are you saying Kettu? Is his post not real?
I actually went in the search and tried TedLocker and the dev isn’t there. Ok maybe they delete devs who leave the team, but Google shows Ted Park as a Hots dev not Ted Locker. A dev uses their real name without exception.
And @OP if it’s fake why bother? April fools was a month ago.
Even if there is MMR averaging making up screens is not cool
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Actually I am not sure, if it’s unfair or not, but I know that it slows the natural progression of players. Without this bad and good players would naturally reach their ranked faster, because the matchmaker won’t put worse/better performing players to average it out.[
So ask yourself, if you slow down the progression of bad and good performing players for the sake of average mmr. Is it fair or not? At least it’s frustrating for both players,because it takes longer to reach their own skill level.
So I fell into the trap? Damn…
I’m not even sure what it really is.
The 50% itself over medium and longer terms is self-explanatory in any ranked system. Losing means easier opponents, so you bounce back. Win some, it gets too hard, so you bounce back. Notable exceptions are the extremes, the best and the worst, and of course players who are quickly improving / degrading.
As for the matchmaker, it’s genuinely awkward. I have an awkward suspicion that the matchmaker proportionally challenges you in certain scenarios, such as: playing a bad hero is asking for a throw; playing a good hero is asking for a challenge. This morning I had a match where one team was full of silvers, the other team was full of high diamonds, a full stack by the way, and, as expected, it was a stomp. Equal chance? Make me laugh.
Since my Li Li is level 103 and also subpar (46% winrate around my ranks), I’m adequately challenged and proudly sitting on a 33% winrate. I was actually hoping to improve the results by another streak, but it’s 3:6 so far.
The MM might try, but all things considered, it’s as good as being no matchmaking whatsoever. Masters and bronzes together, some really solid matches, many extreme stomps, and you know, even if the algorythm is good, it doesn’t cover the win conditions very well.
Whether it’s streaky - win streak, loss streak - or not, is hard to tell, although in my case it’s fairly streaky. Depending on the hero that either manifests as a sweaty streak of 50% winrate followed by a 6-12 winstreak, or a massive loss streak intercepted by a few wins here and there.
Personally I don’t think a totally random, anything goes matchmaker would be a good idea. I don’t like that it matches you based on your parties greatest mmr but I’m also not sure what could change. Smurfing sucks but thats another thing that wouldn’t change with out some kinda way to force one account per user which I don’t see happening sense that would mean fewer wow subs aswell.
Nope, it’s totally fake. If you look at the date of the second link you can see the discussion took place Jan’19 and the picture is dated Feb’19, one month into the future, so it’s an impossible date. And yes, the “dev” posting is also purely imaginary.
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