Now that Chen's rework is live, I have some feedback about his kit

[MacWeak-2328]

I kinda miss ring of fire at 7 and have it along pressure point.
The delay between W usage is still staggering to me.

[anon99440384]

Leoric is pretty good vs chen too.

[Jamuro-11865]

Yeah the early clear definitely suffers for it but the lane trading is amazing. I’m bodying so many people out of lane. It just sucks when you get stuck needing to doublesoak and be rendered unable to because of clear speed until 13.

@anon99440384

Leo

Possible. It’s always been a really even matchup, but Ominous Wraith now affects Chen’s trading more than previously because of EoT and AA build… is also historically good too, probably still is. I’ll have to play it to see

[Zloth-11634]

@Jamuro-11865

Though I have yet to play a game where 1-4 isn’t EoT and AF. I don’t know if I will. Blizzard, please buff SSR and FI at 1. Maybe I’m wrong but in my mind’s eye they would be costly to take.

I made a post exactly about this. It shows with math that EoT is the best choice in 9/10 cases. This issue should surprise no one and these talents should have been buffed before hitting live.

[Jamuro-11865]

I just hope Blizzard doesn’t look at the pickrate disparity and decide to do the same thing they did with Elusive Brawler, which was take a good talent on a bad tier and make the talent bad, without buffing the bad talents. I think FI looks pretty good if you’re actually getting access to globes semi-regularly and probably works better with the kick talents but SSR just looks straight up underpowered, again maybe we’re not taking the rest of Chen’s kit into consideration for how well he can avoid taking damage in the first place… I’m gonna have to just try it out I’m pretty sure EoT is going to receive nerfs, maybe I’m wrong, but I hope they treat it like Maiev’s Q where it progressively gets trimmed down over a number of patches instead of “whoops, that was too strong, we’re reducing bonus damage to 20% and healing to 30%; there we go, no other changes for 6 months” like they did with elusive brawler

that elusive brawler patch sticks like a thorn in my mind

[sancho-1429]

If they have a lot of CC, though, I’ll have a hard time getting in AAs and W/W’s. In that case, I probably just go Q build with FI (especially if we have a tank). That scenario will be fairly common.

[Jamuro-11865]

that’ll be the most common scenario for FI. Fan said the same thing on stream.

At that point though, do we want a Chen? . That is the question. Previously you could do something against a team like that with Keg Toss, now you’re basically all-in or nothing, and the EoT build is the only one that makes sense with that style, provided I’m not oversimplifying.

If, after something like 2-3 weeks it’s been decided that SSR/FI truly are actually underpowered and it’s not just EoT maybe being OP, it would be helpful if a dev came around with some pointers or words on why the talents should mostly stay the same and how they should be used, without tautologies like “well the Globe talent is useful when you get a Globe, and SSR is useful for providing sustain based on ability usage.” Because by then people should hopefully already be aware of exactly how useful those talents are in those situations.

[sancho-1429]

@Jamuro-11865

At that point though, do we want a Chen? .

I was thinking more of QM situations. If they have stun upon stun, I’ll go Q build and chase people down.

What do you see as a good draft comp or good draft situation for Chen?

[Fugazi-1886]

I like the new chen but his W is absolutely awful. If they’d revert back to the old setup and put stagger on a kit cooldown, that would be great.

[EonaRose-1362]

Storm, earth and fire definitely feels op atm. You do as much, if not more, damage as some assassins for 8 seconds and you’re nearly unkillable post 20.

[Jamuro-11865]

For sure. I wouldn’t say I have enough experience with his whole kit yet to know where he’s bad outside of aggressive builds, and as for blatant weaknesses it seems like sustained damage + lots of CC. They’ll keep you from playing aggressively because of constant peels and Stagger also suffers because your uptime won’t be as impactful and then they’ll be able to just keep hitting you afterwards. And when you have to doublesoak versus someone who does it better than you, you struggle then. They don’t have to trade with you, just go to the other lane, outclear you, and you’re then stuck playing catchup the whole time and losing EXP.

@EonaRose-1362

Storm, earth and fire definitely feels op atm. You do as much, if not more, damage as some assassins for 8 seconds and you’re nearly unkillable post 20.

Well… 5 seconds lol. The E buff is the damage one and it only lasts 5 seconds

@Fugazi-1886

I like the new chen but his W is absolutely awful. If they’d revert back to the old setup and put stagger on a kit cooldown, that would be great.

Honestly I’m 100% used to new W/W. I like it now.

Btw SSR sucks

just thought I’d point that out. I’m only trying it in try mode but assuming you’re constantly always hitting 2 people with W/W and Q, that’s 5 hits per roughly 6.5-7 seconds,

@Zloth-11634

Formula: (#Heroes Hit by Q + #Heroes Hit by W1 + $Heroes hit by W2) x SSR healing = Health healed over 6.5 seconds (fastest possible casting speeds)

• (1 [Q] + 2 [W1] + 2 [W2]) x 51.46 [SSR] = 257.3 heals within 6.5 seconds [5 Heroes hit]

These values are bad. Freshest Ingredients has it beat in every way in lane, not to mention the Eye of the Tiger. How can this talent possibly compete? Values need to be WAY increased or Breath of Fire DoT needs to also trigger it, because atm it seems like there’s just no way, period, that it could ever compete, in lane or in fights.

[Jamuro-11865]

BTW, does anyone know what the buffs are to the abilities on SEF 20? Because I’m not noticing literally any differences besides health. The damage buff still works the same, expires after 5s, and they have the same effects as the pre-20, can only be used once, and nowhere is there a description of what the upgrades actually are. The tooltip just says: “and the abilities are empowered.” Even when holding alt.

Unrelated to post again, Freshest Ingredients actually looks super good for sustain in lane. SSR sucks as far as I can tell. EoT, as far as sustain goes, is close to or behind FI if you have globe control. But it definitely wins in the killing squishies department.

[MortalWombat-2755]

??

The way I understood it since the very beginning, every ability is empowered regardless when you use it. The upgrades/empowered is the same as lvl 10. You just dont have to worry about the order.
Not sure if I understood you correctly

[Jamuro-11865]

OOOOOOOOoooooooh no you did. If you are correct, then that makes perfect sense. I was trying against target dummies, and I dont care about using Q last so I ofc wouldn’t notice the root. Nice. Thanks man.

[Zloth-11634]

@Jamuro-11865

Honestly I’m 100% used to new W/W. I like it now.

That’s called Stockholm Syndrome. For real, though- I’m used to it as well, but it still feels bad. I’d be okay with a 1-second delay, but 1.5 feels like garbage.
I think the bigger issue is how the cooldown works, though. The best way to fix it would be: “Chen using KS starts a 6.5 second cd. After 1.5 seconds, KS turns into BoF. Using BoF turns W back into KS, with the initial KS cooldown persisting. After 5 seconds, if BoF is not cast, turn W back into KS (off-cooldown).” So if Chen decides to cast BoF 4 seconds after using KS, the cooldown is still 6.5 seconds.

[Daladin-2409]

well, my Chen killed himself twice in one match yesterday

[Syrnis-2802]

Because you did not anticipate the 75% damage from Stagger ability and let it kill you.

[Jamuro-11865]

@Zloth-11634

That’s called Stockholm Syndrome.

Lmao

I remember suggesting the same thing and you pointed out it would just make Eye more of a must pick. But I agree it would be nice. I mostly am used to just casting breath asap now but I’d still be down for the faster reset. FI actually looks solid for lane, just can’t easily think of when I’d want it over Eye while still wanting Chen but mini-Devil’s Due sounds actually pretty good, doubleglobe is a ton of health back. I still hope any EoT nerfs are met with buffs to FI also. It’s just SSR that suuuuucks

[PlaymakeRR-11673]

@Jamuro-11865

BTW, does anyone know what the buffs are to the abilities on SEF 20? Because I’m not noticing literally any differences besides health. The damage buff still works the same, expires after 5s, and they have the same effects as the pre-20, can only be used once, and nowhere is there a description of what the upgrades actually are. The tooltip just says: “and the abilities are empowered.” Even when holding

The upgrade for those who might not know would be bigger shields on storm, a root on earth, and attack speed AND movement speed on fire

[Firefly63-1827]

New Chen is garbage. Any mage can now just burn him down. You are almost forced to take eye of the tiger at level 1 if you hope to have meaning in any encounter.

The whole W mechanic is just wrong. The keg smash AoE is way, way, way too small.

His E is interesting but ONLY if you have a healer.

His trait does not shield enough. If he sits he becomes a target, and its buh bye Chen, The damage in this game is so high that his shields do little but block an AA attack.

Poor Panda. Seems to have received all the wrong attention