o_O What are you doing? New chen BODIES mages. Stagger works with your own trait regardless of healer. His drink isn’t his only source of mitigation now, so you shouldn’t be “sitting and drinking” much of the time, you should be going in with shield already on and then staggering and then getting out and THEN drinking.
I think you need some more practice with this new iteration of him. He might even be overpowered. You can kill CS varian in lane in 2-3 rotations and stay at 100% health. Just practice man
Sorry. He dies wickedly fast. I mean wickedly. His is perhaps a worse version of Tassadar. He can’t take any focus. What talents are you using? Any variety? I doubt it.
lol. Eye of the Tiger is obviously his best level 1 pick right now but every other tier has fine variety, you can literally pick tiers 4-20 based on your matchup. Freshest Ingredients isn’t bad though, SSR just sucks.
And he shouldn’t die wickedly fast. That sounds like a playstyle issue, my friend. Just because he got reworked doesn’t mean you can go do whatever you want and whatever happens to you is because the rework was bad. You still have to think, “Hmm, what is this kit capable of? How can I fight with it?” And then play it right. Of course he sucks if you expect to just be invulnerable now
Remember, his shields last 4 seconds now. That means you can drink before you engage, and be shielded for basically their full duration while you trade with W+autos, and then you can hit stagger, continue playing aggressively, back out, and then drink after. And you shouldn’t be fighting 1v5s.
Dude it took me a few hours of tryig stuff out to stop hating it. Now I love it. For non-stagger mitigation (drinking), just try to get your shield on before going in, then trade as hard as is profitable while it’s up, and hit Stagger after your HP starts taking hits. Or if youre in TF instead of in lane, anticipate when you’re going to be focused, and only use stagger when you know they’re about to go hard on you.
The 4s shield makes a huge difference. You used to be able to drink through some damage, now it’s more about getting your shield on and then trading while it’s up. Not to say you never drink while taking fire anymore but it’s a lot less common, that’s part of why he’s so much less binary now. It took me a little while to get used to but now I loooove it
New Chen isn’t garbagem but two of his level 1 talents definitely are. I don’t remember a time where Chen was ever weak to mages; the rework is no exception. Almost every mage has low mobility and Chen poops on them.
The W mechanic is annoying, but playable. I did the math- it does about the same DPS pre-rework as long as you cast BoF immediately, but it deals more burst damage. I don’t think the Keg Smash radius has ever changed, so you are probably sad about losing Another Round (you’re not alone).
His E is amazing. If you use it well, you can tank significant damage and have none of it deal damage to your health.
Even pre-rework Chen’s shield was weak to AAs. Use AA-build and listen to Jamuro.
I disagree; his other tiers aren’t fine because they are completely overshadowed by AA-build. Unless they just aren’t letting you AA, Accumulating Flame is too good to pass up at 4. But like you said in another thread- at that point, do we even want Chen? Every website and build I see posted for Chen is the same; it’s always some variation of AA-build with talents changing at 7.
I’d still pick EoT over Fresh Ingredients almost every time. The only time I’d see Fresh Ingredients being a worthwhile pick is if you have an Alexsztraza going Globe Quest and you’re playing either Tomb of the Spider Queen, Alteric Pass, or Garden of Terror. Unless you can secure 2 globes every 25 seconds, even in team-fights, EoT is the better pick.
I hate that I’m starting to agree with you. At least with AA-build, the micro is much more interesting. It’s just weird now because there are match-ups I’d win with pre-rework Chen that I just lose now. And now there are match-ups I would lose before, but now just win.
I think if you do the numbers it wouldn’t negate that much early-game, but late-game one regen globe could negate a substantial amount of poison damage.
You’re kinda right. AF I think is far and away the best talent, although if you’re playing with someone like Kharazim or GftT Greymane against squishy teams I think Deadly Strike Q probably still sees some value. I’ve never been fond of Q build, though, as pre-rework it demanded too much commitment and 0 waveclear, and post-rework AF is just so good. And still has better waveclear!
The other one is just clunky, otherwise it could be good. Like posters before me have said, Withering Flames takes 1.5s to proc once you’ve hit W, so… Unless you’re consistently engaging their ability damage dealers right as the fight is just beginning to break out, or unless you’re going on their healer consistently, and also provided you are not taking this talent for your own mitigation purposes, I just don’t see it getting nearly as much value as damage. I would argue for them to change it to
Reduce the spellpower of Brew-soaked Heroes by 30% for 1.75 seconds. Igniting Brew-soaked Heroes reduces their spellpower by an additional 2.25 seconds.
But hey, again, I’m not taking 4s shields into account. If you have a high-damage team that’s squishy and you’re playing on TotSQ/Shrines/any map where you’ll be with your team a reasonable amount of time, or against Sonya/Kerrigan or something, maybe it is good? It just seems clunky. I hate having to try new things when you already find something that’s good lol.
I love the 30% DR on Yrel’s 13, I like being able to provide utility like that, but Accumulating Flame feels a lot more costly to give up than Velen’s Chosen/75% 1.5s slow (which is good, but baseline AWrath is already pretty darn good anyway)
I have yet to find a situation to justifying taking anything other than AF. The math just doesn’t work to allow the other two talents to compete. Q-build has been disrupted with talent changes, imo. Now you have Enough to Share insta-shield competing with Pressure Point, when it would be better if they were on different tiers. You do highlight an issue that the rework has that everyone hates: must-pick talents. EoT is a must-pick most times, and AF is definitely a must-pick. Chen just doesn’t deal sufficient damage otherwise; the math would show this as well.
Did you know Withering Flames wasn’t buffed with the 1-second duration increase? It has the same uptime as pre-rework Withering Flames at ~60% uptime. Overall, it was nerfed because you could have higher WF uptime using Keg build.
I’d argue just changing WF to a Keg talent at this point. The delay is too costly when it comes to spell power redux.