Well, that’s pretty much the case for every hero. At bronze ranks you have to look more at ranking and the delta between each heroes than just win rate alone.
If you look at the data for silvers in the last patch, you can still clearly see that Zagara is the top at 60%, by a lot.
Have you heard of theory crafting? It’s like imagining how the hero will be playing out. You can do that by comparing the hero’s stats between before and after and use the hero’s performance as a base.
Like with the Failstad rework. His hammer used to get 2 dmg per hero hit, and could hit 1 hero up to 2 times per cast. It was an okay build - not op, not underwhelming either.
After his rework, his hammer started getting 0,2% dmg per hit, and could hit 1 hero up to 3 times.
But after doing some calculations, I reached to the conclusion that this is WAY WEAKER THAN IT USED TO BE. And predicted that it needs heavy buffs. It got buffed. Then it got buffed again. So my prediction was correct.
That’s what I’m doing with Nazeebo too. I’m using his old spider build as a base, as well as his OLD version spider build, which was nerfed for a reason.
His spider build wasn’t too popular, but it was pretty good against squishy teams. And as I already stated, I have experienced it taking down 80% of a squishy’s HP.
So when they buff ALL OF ITS ASPECTS, one could expect it to become overpowered.
Stukov +Naz.
vs Tracer: Stukov E the Recall, Naz combo.
vs Li-Ming: wait for Blink, Stukov use 1, 2 sec, E+D root, Naz combo.
I have a strong feeling most posters here don’t play the game
@Yusuke thats what people said about zagara on day one, and we had to wait an entire month for that fix. Pipe down
Good. Like tracer and other hyper mobile heroes they should be used as finishers, not striking and killing any squishy and getting out free just because “I saw A good moment and they were alone”. At least tracer loses to most marksmen in a 1 v 1 in her current state. Zeratool just dashes in and out and he has aoe to clear waves too so it’s not like he’s suffering if he isn’t killing heroes
Haha, I forgot about that term. This is exactly it. In scientific terms, it’s like making a hypothesis. It’s like getting mad at people for making an informed guess. You’re always going to have to test out the hypothesis, but if your theory is based on sound logic and experience, it only helps hone your thinking even if your conclusions are wrong.
And even then, it’s a freaking forum, people can discuss things. When we had hordes of people complaining about how broken DW was, their complaints weren’t automatically invalid just because they didn’t express themselves perfectly or did it right after a day.
But we already know the result of these buffs. We had them before and they were nerfed…
Care to go in details on this one? Or are you just metaphorical speaking about Zag/Valla/Falstad?
Zeebo’s level 16 spider talent used to reduce his Q cooldown. But they nerfed his Q build by reworking that talent to reduce his OTHER ABILITIES’ cooldowns. So people stopped picking it, and the build became worse in general.
Now they reverted part of this nerf, but they also buffed other aspects of his Q build.
They were’t all done or nerfed at the same time. We got a few buffs, then they were nerfed to having Naz go from Q being the best build to everyone going toads. Some of them were almost the exact same buffs. For example
This is the 2016 buff.
- New Talent: Spirit of Arachyr (Q)
- If your jar of Corpse Spiders hits only 1 enemy, spawn an additional spider.
This is the current buff
- Level 7
- Spirit of Arachyr [Q]
- New functionality:
- Corpse Spiders spawns an additional spider.
- If Corpse Spiders’ jar hits only one target, spawn an additional spider.
Then in 2016 we got this.
Talents
- Level 7
- Spirit of Arachyr (Q)
- Increased the number of additional spiders spawned from 1 to 2
- Dead Rush (W)
- Reduced damage bonus from 100 to 75%
I know the meta has changed, but 1 extra spider had to be nerfed, but now we’re getting two?
They didn’t notice how powerful Q build was because all the buffs were spread out. The damage was buffed a few times, Spider colony was buffed, Hex crawlers was buffed, Q cooldown was reduced, the mana cost was reduced more than once etc.
I mean, this is a comment from August 2015:
Developer Comments: Nazeebo was dealing a little more damage than we’d like, specifically when looking at his spiders. We’ve tuned his base spiders and their leaping talent down to bring him more in line.
And he did get more buffs after.
Spiders deal a LOT of damage, so adding an extra one gives you a ton of extra dps (Let alone two), and just raising their damage by 2 makes a huge difference since there’s several of them and they attack fast.
You can look at it for yourself. Nazeebo Patch Notes
I can’t blame the devs for missing it the first time, since all those changes were spread in time. This time though, they don’t have the excuse of ignorance.
Pretty sure this is gonna end up making an OP hero. (If you pick Q build)
I wasn’t aware of this, thanks for the info phaseshifter. Now I can understand WereElf more.
I’m uncertain if you aren’t interpreting this the wrong way.
Before the patch, Zeebo’s level 7 talent was spawning 2 extra spiders upon hitting a single enemy (Since October 2016).
Now it spawns an extra spider, no matter how many enemies you hit, and additional one if you hit only a single enemy, so still 2 in total.
It only got a buff when hitting more than 1 enemies with Q.
Anyways… after checking out the link you provided I realized that I have made a mistake.
At some point they have buffed his level 1 talent to reduce his Jar’s cooldown to 7 seconds (down from 9) and they made it reduce their mana cost by 10 (to 40).
So now, with this patch, they removed these functionalities from the talent. They baked the mana cost reduction into the ability baseline. And they reduced the cooldown by 1 second (to 8) down from 9, but it no longer drops to 7 seconds with the talent. HOWEVER, the increased duration fully compensates for that, and the level 16 talent buff makes it much better as well.
You telling us they are just horsingaround doing nothing but complain
Most likely it’s not the same Devs working now who did the previous changes. I’m not defending anything, Sami covered my concerns perfectly here.
With some of the hero breaking bugs that have been in the last 3 patches, it’s my feeling the Devs are overstretched and perhaps the imperative is to just get out content changes at any cost. The balance changes and mini hero reworks is essentially the only updates HOTS sees.
This is only my speculation, but we have no idea what conditions the Devs are working under, what resources they are allocated and what they are directed to do by those higher up, so personally I temper my criticism for some of the recent directions taken.
I pretty much agree but Jaina is op.
After 1 week and over 300 games: Q build is 53.20% in dia+ (0.59% over the average).
I don’t ban him anymore.
Finally a good player, who made the same experience as myself, who did the same experience in silver-gold. Nazeebo is far from being old bugged Falstad, Valla or Zagara. I would even ban Azmodan more than Nazeebo.
And if you also don’t even ban him, so it seems he isn’t really a potencial hero for a nerf, but we ofc can’t be sure about it, we don’t know, which data the devs have.
Wait what…? New changes made Jaina op? I am not sure about this, but I guess I have try her out.
Yea that is not busted at all. He will end up getting minor nerfs. He is no near being a new Falstad/Valla/Zag. Everything between 47-53% winrate is a healthy winrate.
As you all know, “unfun” factor is also a thing to be kept in mind. It’s not all about win rate. Which is the reason heroes like Tracer, Genji and Danzo are kept underpowered, despite their win rates.
And there are few things that are more “unfun” than getting 1-shotted by a basic ability 